[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by Vitt

...

... So the question remains, is the manual in the 228 as good as the one in the M235i? ...

I test drove the 228 and 235 back to back with MT and they felt about the same to me.

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by Jeff_DML

I test drove the 228 and 235 back to back with MT and they felt about the same to me.

I drove both back to back and felt a huge difference. I am not sure what this post is about. Both cars are not in the same league IMHO.

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by deathsliver

I drove both back to back and felt a huge difference. I am not sure what this post is about. Both cars are not in the same league IMHO.

There's about a 60HP difference on the dyno so I am surprised others don't feel it.

[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by deathsliver

I drove both back to back and felt a huge difference. I am not sure what this post is about. Both cars are not in the same league IMHO.

In response to what I quoted, guess I should of pruned it to below

So the question remains, is the manual in the 228 as good as the one in the M235i?

And yes I noticed the ~60hp difference

[tccox]

I drove both. The manual trans feels exactly the same. Not sure in real life there is really 60 hp difference . Not that big a difference in 0-60 times. C and D. 4.3 seconds. M235. 4.9 seconds 228i. Both autos

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by Jeff_DML

In response to what I quoted, guess I should of pruned it to below



And yes I noticed the ~60hp difference

I inferred you meant "overall" in your post, not just the MT transmission. I was reading the thread from the start and it felt there was a general feeling that the 228i was almost the same as the M235i and that it was better to save the $. Although the $ difference is very subjective and will obviously vary from person to person, overall the M235i is a much better car. Heh, if shaving 2 seconds off the 0-60mph is the only thing that could be of significance there's no reason paying the 15k extra for the M235i. Better save up 60-80k though for a real performance sports car then.

[ryancolucci]

Originally Posted by deathsliver

I inferred you meant "overall" in your post, not just the MT transmission. I was reading the thread from the start and it felt there was a general feeling that the 228i was almost the same as the M235i and that it was better to save the $. Although the $ difference is very subjective and will obviously vary from person to person, overall the M235i is a much better car. Heh, if shaving 2 seconds off the 0-60mph is the only thing that could be of significance there's no reason paying the 15k extra for the M235i. Better save up 60-80k though for a real performance sports car then.

As is very subjective that the m235i is a much better car. Also i dont think you're shaving 2 seconds of the 5 sec 0-60 unless you are buying a ferrari.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by deathsliver

I inferred you meant "overall" in your post, not just the MT transmission. I was reading the thread from the start and it felt there was a general feeling that the 228i was almost the same as the M235i and that it was better to save the $. Although the $ difference is very subjective and will obviously vary from person to person, overall the M235i is a much better car.

If you're comparing an M235i to a 238i Track Handling Package (or M Sport + Dynamic Handling Package + M Sport Brakes), is there any significant difference besides engine and badging? I'm asking that in all seriousness. I never even considered the M235i because I feel it's more engine than I really could take advantage of 98% of the time, and I'd rather have the lighter weight, better weight distribution, and improved fuel economy of the 2.0-liter, all for a lower price. Besides, coming from an E90 328i, I'm already blown away by the torque of the smaller turbo engine.

[ska///235i]

Im not here to knock on the 28i but i find it funny ppl are saying they went for the 28i cuz of the weight saving. Is what? 200 something lbs? You can get the 35i with a moonroof delete and we're talking about 160 something lbs....this comes down to what package/options you have in either cars. Even if the 28i is underrated at 270hp...we're talking about 60hp and if no one can feel the difference of 60hp then we might as well drive a corolla cuz you will also not notice the diff between the two

[danimal]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Im not here to knock on the 28i but i find it funny ppl are saying they went for the 28i cuz of the weight saving. Is what? 200 something lbs? You can get the 35i with a moonroof delete and we're talking about 160 something lbs....this comes down to what package/options you have in either cars. Even if the 28i is underrated at 270hp...we're talking about 60hp and if no one can feel the difference of 60hp then we might as well drive a corolla cuz you will also not notice the diff between the two

I think it's less weight over the front wheels that matters, not the total curb weight per se. I'm not saying it's a huge difference, but it potentially makes for a slightly more nimble car. If you don't care about the straight-line performance benefits of the 3.0-liter, where's the disadvantage of going with the 228i?

ETA: Weight difference is 245 lbs. (I assume with no options). Weight distribution is ~50:50 for the 228i vs ~52:48 for the M235i.

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Even if the 28i is underrated at 270hp...we're talking about 60hp and if no one can feel the difference of 60hp then we might as well drive a corolla cuz you will also not notice the diff between the two

'zactly.

Half the folks on this forum are replacing their stock pipes and air intakes w/bolt-ons for only 10-20 hp and then praising these small gains.

Yet on this thread, 60 hp ain't that much.
Really?

Too funny.

Btw…who's to say that the 320 hp listed on the M235i isn't grossly understated too?

[danimal]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Yet on this thread, 60 hp ain't that much.
Really?...

Btw…who's to say that the 320 hp listed on the M235i isn't grossly understated too?

I agree on both counts: 60 HP is a lot and the 320 HP is probably grossly understated.

I just don't care.

[ryancolucci]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

'zactly.

Half the folks on this forum are replacing their stock pipes and air intakes w/bolt-ons for only 10-20 hp and then praising these small gains.

Yet on this thread, 60 hp ain't that much.
Really?

Too funny.

Btw…who's to say that the 320 hp listed on the M235i isn't grossly understated too?

Clearly based on reviews, the numbers BMW has stated on both vehicles are understated. I dont think anyone said that 60 hp aint that much. The thing is that most of the benefit isn't realized until you hit 60-70mph. At least that was my experience during my test drive. At lower speeds they felt 'pretty' similar.

[InControl]

Originally Posted by ryancolucci

Clearly based on reviews, the numbers BMW has stated on both vehicles are understated. I dont think anyone said that 60 hp aint that much. The thing is that most of the benefit isn't realized until you hit 60-70mph. At least that was my experience during my test drive. At lower speeds they felt 'pretty' similar.

The steering is surely not understated. The 2 series will be a good buy in 7 years when they copy hydraulic steering and eliminate turbo lag.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by InControl

The steering is surely not understated. The 2 series will be a good buy in 7 years when they copy hydraulic steering and eliminate turbo lag.

As will the 3 & 4 series.

[ba83]

Yes the 228i is underrated about 20-30 hp , in a year or so many people will prove it , so is the 235i which makes 300+ to the wheels .
Gm 2.0 engine is overrated and the ats breaks 6 second mark barely , even their 3.6 is mid 5s

[Vitt]

Originally Posted by danimal

I think it's less weight over the front wheels that matters, not the total curb weight per se. I'm not saying it's a huge difference, but it potentially makes for a slightly more nimble car. If you don't care about the straight-line performance benefits of the 3.0-liter, where's the disadvantage of going with the 228i?

ETA: Weight difference is 245 lbs. (I assume with no options). Weight distribution is ~50:50 for the 228i vs ~52:48 for the M235i.

^This

I never even considered the M235i because I feel it's more engine than I really could take advantage of 98% of the time, and I'd rather have the lighter weight, better weight distribution...

^^ And this.

I won't argue with the fact that the M235i is an amazing drive, when you have the chance to open it up, that is. To me, for a DD, it has to do with the adage that it's more fun to drive a slow(er) car fast than a fast car slow (in LA traffic). Heck, even the underrated 240 HP/255 TQ is too much power for a daily traffic slasher. That's why the Jalopnik Edition 320i . Nimble is better for me. It'll also keep me out of trouble with LE--how could anyone not get carried away with the capable M235. Only thing holding me back on the 228 right now is the manual transmission. I'm sure the ratios are different, and thus probably not as much fun.

[jamze132]

Allow me to put in my two cents.

I'm leaving Germany in a month or so to head back to the US (military). I recently traded in my 2011 X6M for a 228i. Go ahead and call me a dumbass but I needed to save some money and what better way to save money than with the insurance agent and the gas pump.

I'm going from 12.7 mpg to almost 30 mpg with the switch. And as everyone has already stated, the 228i is a quick little thing! Basically a second slower to 60 with more than double the gas mileage.

Now the 228i doesn't handle nearly as awesome as my previous M3 or the X6M which is to be expected. Sacrifices had to be made. But for bang for your buck, the 228i provides a sporty ride with a little bit of the fun factor.

I love going to the gas station now though...

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by danimal

If you're comparing an M235i to a 238i Track Handling Package (or M Sport + Dynamic Handling Package + M Sport Brakes), is there any significant difference besides engine and badging? I'm asking that in all seriousness. I never even considered the M235i because I feel it's more engine than I really could take advantage of 98% of the time, and I'd rather have the lighter weight, better weight distribution, and improved fuel economy of the 2.0-liter, all for a lower price. Besides, coming from an E90 328i, I'm already blown away by the torque of the smaller turbo engine.

In my area a 228i equipped as you mention is just 2-3k less. It remains a personal choice but it's not really much cheaper. I would go the the M235i or a bare-bone 228i if money is an issue.

[ryancolucci]

Originally Posted by deathsliver

In my area a 228i equipped as you mention is just 2-3k less. It remains a personal choice but it's not really much cheaper. I would go the the M235i or a bare-bone 228i if money is an issue.

MSRP on a 228 msport with dynamic handling and mbrakes is $37,675 vs $44k MSRP for bone stock m235. Take into account that dealers are more willing to negotiate the 228 and you have probably a 7k+ difference in price.

[BMW F22]

Who the hell care if the car is underrated? Are we really surprised at that? BMW has been doing that with a lot of their cars.

Now as to the 228 vs 235i, it all comes down to your personal preference. When it first came out, I test drove the 235i and it was a blast! However, I thought maybe I should just go with the 228i since it's cheaper, lighter and more balanced. The only thing was that if I were to spec a 228i out to be like the 235i, the difference would be just a few grand (not the $11k difference in base prices). If anyone is going with the 228i, just spec it out with minimum options. That would give you the most savings. A buddy of mine picked up a 228i and his car was about $41k optioned out. Compared to my 235i's $48k, he didn't have a sunroof, msport brakes, adaptive suspension, harman kardon, or adaptive steering. If I were getting a 228i I would loaded up with more options because I had more room to play around with.

In the end I went with the 235i. Coming from a 335i, I would miss the i6 engine. The exhaust note sounded better on the 235i too. For ME, the difference of a few grand isn't that significant. Of course, I am leasing it so maybe that had something to do with it too.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by jamze132

Allow me to put in my two cents.

I'm leaving Germany in a month or so to head back to the US (military). I recently traded in my 2011 X6M for a 228i. Go ahead and call me a dumbass but I needed to save some money and what better way to save money than with the insurance agent and the gas pump.

I'm going from 12.7 mpg to almost 30 mpg with the switch. And as everyone has already stated, the 228i is a quick little thing! Basically a second slower to 60 with more than double the gas mileage.

Now the 228i doesn't handle nearly as awesome as my previous M3 or the X6M which is to be expected. Sacrifices had to be made. But for bang for your buck, the 228i provides a sporty ride with a little bit of the fun factor.

I love going to the gas station now though...

I total agree that the 28i is the best bang for the buck

It will make a nice track car also with the money u save from a 35i...but if I have to do it all over again, Im still picking the 35i