[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by Monoblock

Not that I care that much, but it's your phrasing that is...uh... "irritating":

"My point is the M235 is the best version of the 2 series. That's all."

But you didn't make any point. You stated an opinion, but you state it as if it were fact. Hence you got called out on it. If you're going to assert things in that style, expect people to respond in kind.

I think BMW would consider this to be fact. Just as the M5/6 are the best 5 and 6 series. When the M2 comes out this will no longer be true. I have not heard anyone mount an actual argument against this. That argument would have to be that the 228 is better and its not. That doesn't mean that it is not a great car. The poor guy didn't say its the best car. There are always gonna be better cars on the road than your own get over it.

[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by jwr0721

I see your point, but I think the issue is that it seems people generally read message boards seeking to get offended and ascribing some sort of bitchy tone to other posters when if they just read things with a calm inner-monologue none of this would happen.

I'm pretty sure BMW probably considers the M235i to be the best version of the 2 series. It's the top-of-the-line version of the car.

That doesn't mean the 228i is a piece of shit. It's a great car. But it's not an M235i. It's just not. If the 228 were the better car, it would cost more, etc. a great value? Absolutely! Fun as hell? Absolutely! But better than an M235i? Probably not.

And BTW - of COURSE Jalopnik is going to write an article calling the 228 the "best" 2 series. There are a million articles about how AMAZING the M235i is (including Car and Driver's "10 Best" list). Jalopnik needs people to click on their site and read their articles so they can sell advertising. Their article is just click bait. A way to be a differentiator. Clever marketing.

And BTW - I haven't seen a single M235 driver say "Geeze ... I sure wish I'd gotten the 228 instead ... Doh!" But I bet you there are a LOT of 228 drivers (probably some replying to this thread) who wish they had the M235i.

So yes - IN MY OPINION (and in the opinion of probably the majority of people out there) the M235i is the superior version of the 2 series.

I'm with you dude 100%

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

You clearly have issues. Learn how to read and maybe calm down a little. Wow.

I've learned you'll learn more when you open your mind and actually try to understand what people are saying instead of assuming things.
I've come here to learn from other's experiences and don't question others motives, but yes I have my own opinions.

I also call BS when I see it. Are you old enough to drive?

[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Actually, knowing some folks at BMW, I can tell you they would say that the 228i is the best car which addresses its particular objectives, financial, quality, dynamic, etc. And, the M235i is the best which address its distinct objectives, which will be different in some key aspects. The relevant measure is how well each car met its program objectives. Of course, we understand why a manufacturer will take the position that all of their products are the "best" across the model line-up. However, I can assure you they don't think any of their products are inferior, that is, failing to meet its own objectives to a greater degree, as compared to any of their other products.

I sense that you may more highly value and agree with the objectives set for the higher performance vehicle. However, those simply make for a different product, not a "better" one.

I have plenty of friends at corporate and this is just nonsense. Of course BMW and no one on this forum for that matter would say that the 228 failed to meet its goals. It is in fact a better product, more expensive componenets and more expensive as a whole. If you want some or all of those components you will have a 228 for a 235 price. Again I know you love VO so you had no choice.

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

I have plenty of friends at corporate and this is just nonsense. Of course BMW and no one on this forum for that matter would say that the 228 failed to meet its goals. It is in fact a better product, more expensive componenets and more expensive as a whole. If you want some or all of those components you will have a 228 for a 235 price. Again I know you love VO so you had no choice.

Tell me about the different suspension components between the M235i and the 228i with MSport Suspension. Springs/rates, shock etc.

[Steven1077]

From what I've read the 235 is only 143 lbs heavier, or at least it is in the UK and the 228

[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by pazzo

Tell me about the different suspension components between the M235i and the 228i with MSport Suspension. Springs/rates, shock etc.

Can you tell me the cost of the Msport suspension on the 228? I'm pretty sure you are helping to prove my point. I believe the suspensions would be almost identical I just don't feel like loooking it up. 235 comes standard, 228 its an option. I just think that if you are going to start adding options bringing the cars so close in price, it is a no brainer. If you drive a stripped 228 with THP and suspension upgrades, please disregard.
I dealt with this on e90 post and its so annoying. There is no need for anyone to justify their purchase, this is simply a forum to discuss. I assume when you drop 40k on a car you get what you want. All of you wouldn't be so offended if you were comfortable with what you were driving.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by pazzo

Tell me about the different suspension components between the M235i and the 228i with MSport Suspension. Springs/rates, shock etc.

Too funny. Don't you believe him?

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

Can you tell me the cost of the Msport suspension on the 228? I'm pretty sure you are helping to prove my point. I believe the suspensions would be almost identical I just don't feel like loooking it up. 235 comes standard, 228 its an option. I just think that if you are going to start adding options bringing the cars so close in price, it is a no brainer. If you drive a stripped 228 with THP and suspension upgrades, please disregard.
I dealt with this on e90 post and its so annoying. There is no need for anyone to justify their purchase, this is simply a forum to discuss. I assume when you drop 40k on a car you get what you want. All of you wouldn't be so offended if you were comfortable with what you were driving.

You're answering my question with a question(s)????
You're the guy I need to speak to apparently?..
I have plenty of friends at corporate.."

Do me a favor and find out.

Cost is not a factor and I'm interested in knowing all the difference between the 2 to make the most informed decision on which I'll do, if I do either.

[Sportstick]

For the frenzied 235 driver above, let's review:

The M235 and my 228i with THP have the same:
- VSS steering
- MAdaptive suspension
- PSS tires
- 18" wheel size/quality (just different design...take your pick)
- 6MT transmission
- seats
- instrument panel
- sheetmetal
- assembly plant
...and just about everything else other than badges.

So, what is all this supposed superiority about? 2 cylinders? Otherwise, it's the same car! If you can accept that once reaching a certain point, I don't care if it's any faster, there is no "superiority" to be found by spending the extra few thousand. And, if I did, what would I get? Weight distribution going the wrong way with 200lbs more on the front end? Why would I want that? 228i steering feels too responsive, car is too nimble, and chassis is too neutral? Loss of the fog lamps? Why would I want that? A thirstier engine? Why would I want that? I don't need a pass for taking Valencia Orange...I would have taken 228i in any color...after turning down the 4 Series for more $$ than either 2 would have been.

So, let's give it a rest (again!) as to which is "superior". Good to know your personal needs are best satisfied by what you bought. The same is true for a lot of people who made a different decision.

[Vervain]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

From what I've read the 235 is only 143 lbs heavier, or at least it is in the UK and the 228

Yeah I think it's different for different countries due to the standard spec. The US has many standard options in the M235i like electric seats and a sunroof, which add a bit of weight. I know this is not anywhere near the standard spec for a lot of countries, regarding the M235i at least.

[Bimmer86]

Lol, this thread is kind of getting ridiculous. Can't we all just agree that we love our F22's?

[3.0L]

I think both are excellent cars. I can remember a day when I would've thought I had died and gone to heaven if I owned a nimble sport coupe with 240 HP and 260 lb/ft of torque under the hood - even if the engine was a V-6 or V-8. But, from a compact 2.0L 4-banger no less! Man, I can think of a number of little coupes I had in the past that would've been king of the road with 240 HP BMW 4-banger!

But... I've changed. I've driven way too many miles behind 4-bangers. I recently rented an X3 xDrive28i and while it was very peppy, I often could feel a little vibration; a vibration I suppose was each cylinder lighting off as the little engine loafed along the highway at 1500 RPM. It wasn't bad, but I'm just not in that realm anymore; I do not like engine vibrations.

I went with the 3.0L inline 6. Not only do I enjoy the brute, low-end torque, it's also smooth. Really smooth.

But don't get me wrong; either ride is great. I imagine your final decision will rest on what sounds and vibes (or not) give you a thrill.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Bimmer86

Lol, this thread is kind of getting ridiculous. Can't we all just agree that we love our F22's?

Oh, gosh, how we've tried. Some "bigger/faster is better" folks just can't let it go!

Watch....someone will be back with more of the same......

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Oh, gosh, how we've tried. Some "bigger/faster is better" folks just can't let it go!

Is that a dead Ford Mustang GT! I test drove it too.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

For the frenzied 235 driver above, let's review:

The M235 and my 228i with THP have the same:
- VSS steering
- MAdaptive suspension
- PSS tires
- 18" wheel size/quality (just different design...take your pick)
- 6MT transmission
- seats
- instrument panel
- sheetmetal
- assembly plant
...and just about everything else other than badges.

So, what is all this supposed superiority about? 2 cylinders? Otherwise, it's the same car! If you can accept that once reaching a certain point, I don't care if it's any faster, there is no "superiority" to be found by spending the extra few thousand. And, if I did, what would I get? Weight distribution going the wrong way with 200lbs more on the front end? Why would I want that? 228i steering feels too responsive, car is too nimble, and chassis is too neutral? Loss of the fog lamps? Why would I want that? A thirstier engine? Why would I want that? I don't need a pass for taking Valencia Orange...I would have taken 228i in any color...after turning down the 4 Series for more $$ than either 2 would have been.

So, let's give it a rest (again!) as to which is "superior". Good to know your personal needs are best satisfied by what you bought. The same is true for a lot of people who made a different decision.

I, too, took exception to being given "dispensation" from the rant because I wanted VO. My car is everything I wanted it to be and has more HP than I will ever need. Let me ask this...If there were two otherwise identical cars (which, as Sportstick correctly points out the 228 with THP and the 235 are) and one put out 600 HP and the other 800 HP would that make the 800 HP car "better"? We drive on roads in the U.S. with speed limits and police with radar. My car is super fast and, continuing with Sportstick's "why would I want that?" theme, why would I want a car that's even faster and that gets worse gas mileage when I will never use the extra power? I don't get it. I also wonder how many of the people who are "convinced" that the 235 is an overall "better" car have even driven a 228 with THP. My guess would be none, because I suspect there isn't a single one on dealer lots available for a test drive.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by pazzo

Is that a dead Ford Mustang GT! I test drove it too.

Now you've done it....now the Mustang lurkers will pile on!

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Now you've done it....now the Mustang lurkers will pile on!

haha! Hey, I'd still pick the BMW 2xx.




in Valencia Orange.

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Now you've done it....now the Mustang lurkers will pile on!

No thanks I enjoy corners the only sports cars America can design is straight roads

[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

For the frenzied 235 driver above, let's review:

The M235 and my 228i with THP have the same:
- VSS steering
- MAdaptive suspension
- PSS tires
- 18" wheel size/quality (just different design...take your pick)
- 6MT transmission
- seats
- instrument panel
- sheetmetal
- assembly plant
...and just about everything else other than badges.

So, what is all this supposed superiority about? 2 cylinders? Otherwise, it's the same car! If you can accept that once reaching a certain point, I don't care if it's any faster, there is no "superiority" to be found by spending the extra few thousand. And, if I did, what would I get? Weight distribution going the wrong way with 200lbs more on the front end? Why would I want that? 228i steering feels too responsive, car is too nimble, and chassis is too neutral? Loss of the fog lamps? Why would I want that? A thirstier engine? Why would I want that? I don't need a pass for taking Valencia Orange...I would have taken 228i in any color...after turning down the 4 Series for more $$ than either 2 would have been.

So, let's give it a rest (again!) as to which is "superior". Good to know your personal needs are best satisfied by what you bought. The same is true for a lot of people who made a different decision.

To the valencia orange contingent: I did not mean to leave you out from this ridiculous argument, I just didn't want you Orange fanatics jumping in saying it doesn't come in orange. haha

Thank you sportstick for gathering that info, so I didn't have to. So yes that's what I thought, with the THP the 228 has the same suspension. You forgot to tell me how much that package is on the 228, because its standard on the 235. Because if you read my post I was making a point about how close in price a heavily optioned 228 can get to a 235. I'm sorry that anyone was offended and I think someone brought up a good point about people taking posts so offensively when I was simply trying to give my view. I don't feel in any way superior in my car, it is the lowest platform BMW offers. I always hated when people bashed the e9x 28s because they weren't fast enough to be fun. That is NOT what I am trying to say and I'm shocked by the response.
You guys are throwing stones and then when I try to argue a different side start crying. If it wasn't clear by all my other posts here you go:
1) The 235s power is usable on the streets: people used to say this about the e9x M3, although a great car it needed to be revved so high for fun. The 235 and the 228 are nothing like that with incredible torque and response at LOW SPEEDS. Yea the car is comfortable at 100, but so has every BMW I've ever been in. You will feel the difference from 0-60. Chaswyck, your thing about 600 v. 800hp car is so off base its laughable. Yes, I agree at that point it doesnt really matter at all, couldn't care less at that point. This is 320 v. 240, which is noticeable in a daily drive.

2)Any suggestion that the car is more nimble because it is 200lbs lighter. I mean c'mon. So, the same guys arguing that they wouldn't notice the bigger engine on the streets act like they notice the 200lbs. of weight difference because your just cornering SO hard. Even if this were true, which I think would only matter in extreme situations, the 35 is going to make up for it with the extra power. If this were the case I would never allow passengers so that I can keep up with those 228s in the corners.

3) In what car universe are extra cylinders a penalty, especially when we are talking about BMWs tried and true i6. The only time I could see this is V(W)10-12 status Also I believe gas prices have been down for the past 100? days. I filled up this baby for 30 bucks today, so if you are even broaching the subject of performance and mods this expense should not even be part of the conversation.


Just wanted to address those that were offended. Please do not bother to reply to this post unless you have something constructive to say about 1-3. I don't care to talk about anything else on a car forum.

[chaswyck1]

mmmmm235i, you were so busy laughing that you missed my point. Yes, 320 vs 240 is noticeable, but my point was that the extra 80 hp is unnecessary. Will the 228 pass with ease on a freeway? Yes. Can it smoke 95% of cars at a light if I want it to? Yes. Can it easily reach highway speed on even a short ramp? Yes. Does it give me all the power I need and want as soon as I want it? Yes. Have you driven a 228 with THP? I suspect the answer is No.

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by chaswyck@yahoo.com

Have you driven a 228 with THP? I suspect the answer is No.

And there in lies the rub.
200lbs of additional weight, over the front axle with the same springs, spring rates, shocks/dampers, control arms/bushings etc, will feel different to those that drive it. Those that did and say they can't feel it..well let's just say it's the brains behind the wheel.

200lbs is approx 7% of the weight of the entire vehicle and that additional 7% is over the front axle.

Now you can chime in with its only 150b heavier or my favorite "the difference in cost" , but these are the facts of applied mechanics. It's science not science fiction.