[divisionbell77]

Originally Posted by mczoomer

I'm looking for impressions of the M235i from someone who is familiar with the Mazdaspeed3 (2012), my current ride.

In particular, my suspicion is that the M235i has similar or greater sportiness, but offers a far more comfortable ride -- more supportive seats, better suspension, and a less intrusive, more pleasing, engine growl. Can someone confirm? (I've only been on one test drive of the M235i, I liked it).

What I lose by going from MS3 to M235i is 5 door hatchback practicality, a bigger fuel tank (giving slightly better range, I think the MPGs of the 2 cars is very close), and of course a fair wad of cash. I'm just a bit tired of the rough ride -- depending on my mood i welcome it, but at other times it's annoying. My passengers complain a lot about the tight suspension. (OK, I could get new passengers :-).

If there's anyone here who has driven the MS3, I'd really be interested in your take on the comparative merits of the M235i.

Mazda's are very reliable, have the lowest cost of ownership for the first 5 years. You will be missing that.

[m1cism]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

At this point, if I were to get a 228i, I'd just order a new 2015 Mustang... having seen it in person, it offers more character and value than the 2-series. The only think impressive about the 2-series is the N55.. if you aint getting that, why bother..?

The 235i might give it a run, but a 228i.. ..

Haha, you would drive a Mustang over a 228i? That is the first time I have heard that.

The BMW is a drivers car, plain and simple. The only thing going for the Mustang is legacy. It does not give the grin on my face nearly as much as a 228i.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by m1cism

Haha, you would drive a Mustang over a 228i? That is the first time I have heard that.

The BMW is a drivers car, plain and simple. The only thing going for the Mustang is legacy. It does not give the grin on my face nearly as much as a 228i.

I'm sorry. If you Look at what BMW USA is doing. Vinyl over Alcantara, I drive, comfort suspension, More M badges than probably any previous Full M car and weighs close to 3600 lbs while sporting fake carbon bits. My question is, who is really living off their "legacy?" I think both are equally myself but I think the Mustang is more honest about it not sure it's fair in this case. The 1M, some hard-core stripper M3s are drivers cars but the USA version makes the cut basically because it's rear drive and fast. The mustang is rear drive and fast too and deserves a little consideration for that.

[m1cism]

Originally Posted by nachob

I'm sorry. If you Look at what BMW USA is doing. Vinyl over Alcantara, I drive, comfort suspension, More M badges than probably any previous Full M car and weighs close to 3600 lbs while sporting fake carbon bits. My question is, who is really living off their "legacy?" I think both are equally myself but I think the Mustang is more honest about it not sure it's fair in this case. The 1M, some hard-core stripper M3s are drivers cars but the USA version makes the cut basically because it's rear drive and fast. The mustang is rear drive and fast too and deserves a little consideration for that.

I do agree that there are quality characteristics in the recent BMWs that are lacking. That being said, most American cars feel incredibly cheap. All the technology options are tacky and the driving feel seems mundane at best. Whatever Ford can do, BMW just does it better. Yes, its must costlier and you pay a "luxury tax", but in the long run you are getting a car that is built by people who pay attention to detail. Most American manufacturers build their cars for pure marketing tactic without focusing on the product itself.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by m1cism

I do agree that there are quality characteristics in the recent BMWs that are lacking. That being said, most American cars feel incredibly cheap. All the technology options are tacky and the driving feel seems mundane at best. Whatever Ford can do, BMW just does it better. Yes, its must costlier and you pay a "luxury tax", but in the long run you are getting a car that is built by people who pay attention to detail. Most American manufacturers build their cars for pure marketing tactic without focusing on the product itself.

I wish they would also get it. As an American, I would love it if they also got a clue and ramped up the quality. Same complaints. They add horse shadow lighting on the entry points but can't make a decent steering wheel. To much emphasis and effort on fluff on both camps in my opinion. I don't understand how the whole 1M success was lost on BMW? Build exciting raw cars and people are clamoring for it. Instead they go softer, more emphasis on tech.

There is nothing wrong with tech either but in the past you could order a car with or without the idrive and screen. You can't anymore and that is the difference. Those that see these things as detracting from driving don't have a choice anymore.

Anyway, I just thought it was harshly discounted as not a "driver's car" and that did not make sense when referencing what BMW USA has spec'd for the USA market. Obviously, I'm on this forum not the Ford forum for a reason.

[m1cism]

Originally Posted by nachob

I wish they would also get it. As an American, I would love it if they also got a clue and ramped up the quality. Same complaints. They add horse shadow lighting on the entry points but can't make a decent steering wheel. To much emphasis and effort on fluff on both camps in my opinion. I don't understand how the whole 1M success was lost on BMW? Build exciting raw cars and people are clamoring for it. Instead they go softer, more emphasis on tech.

There is nothing wrong with tech either but in the past you could order a car with or without the idrive and screen. You can't anymore and that is the difference. Those that see these things as detracting from driving don't have a choice anymore.

Anyway, I just thought it was harshly discounted as not a "driver's car" and that did not make sense when referencing what BMW USA has spec'd for the USA market. Obviously, I'm on this forum not the Ford forum for a reason.

Mustang definitely has a great fan base, and it must be for a reason. American cars are not easily compared to BMWs and the like. Different perspectives on what a car entails. Like you mentioned, some people may take the required iDrive screen as a negative.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by m1cism

Mustang definitely has a great fan base, and it must be for a reason. American cars are not easily compared to BMWs and the like. Different perspectives on what a car entails. Like you mentioned, some people may take the required iDrive screen as a negative.

Yes, I take it as a negative. I like driving around and when I see a nice desolate, safe corner that I can take a little harder, I want my horse ready for it, I don't want to be switching to sport suspension, sport steering, sport shifting when I am paying for a sports car. I want to dive into it at the last second because it's those small moments that I enjoy. I also take driving seriously and having the display up so high, especially at night is not right but as you mentioned. Ford has to bring up the quality. On the other hand, you can almost buy two fords for the price of M235i. That is what is nice about little rockets like the MSP3. They are tacky and unrefined...but we can also enjoy Hooters over a fine steak house too!

[m1cism]

Originally Posted by nachob

Yes, I take it as a negative. I like driving around and when I see a nice desolate, safe corner that I can take a little harder, I want my horse ready for it, I don't want to be switching to sport suspension, sport steering, sport shifting when I am paying for a sports car. I want to dive into it at the last second because it's those small moments that I enjoy. I also take driving seriously and having the display up so high, especially at night is not right but as you mentioned. Ford has to bring up the quality. On the other hand, you can almost buy two fords for the price of M235i. That is what is nice about little rockets like the MSP3. They are tacky and unrefined...but we can also enjoy Hooters over a fine steak house too!

Agreed. I think my days of driving little rockets are over though. Too many tickets and immaturity, haha.

[SmallTownBoy]

If my M235i is an example of BMW "living off its legacy", then pour me another drink, grandpa!

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by timsev

I'll have to disagree strongly with that one. What factors are you basing that opinion on?

The cars I listed, except for the GTI, don't make any attempts at being more luxurious than the other trim levels. They come manual only (except for the gti, but if you ask some people it's dct is more performance orientated than a traditional auto). All the cars I listed are lighter than the 235, and possibly even the 228 in some cases. They feature unique suspensions and drivetrains focused on performance over ride quality.

Also, I'd say the performance is more accessible in a ms3, focus/fiesta st and the gti.

[timsev]

Originally Posted by Ritz42

The cars I listed, except for the GTI, don't make any attempts at being more luxurious than the other trim levels. They come manual only (except for the gti, but if you ask some people it's dct is more performance orientated than a traditional auto). All the cars I listed are lighter than the 235, and possibly even the 228 in some cases. They feature unique suspensions and drivetrains focused on performance over ride quality.

Also, I'd say the performance is more accessible in a ms3, focus/fiesta st and the gti.

You forgot to mention that those cars are all FWD and have terrible f/r balance. A common misconception is that if a suspension is stiffer, it must handle better. Quite the contrary. The suspension in the M235i is top notch and is even better on a racetrack, which I have first hand knowledge of.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

If my M235i is an example of BMW "living off its legacy", then pour me another drink, grandpa!

Great point! The M235i is a great machine when compared to the other cars coming in around it. It is still the best but with the electric steering and forced iDrive, no key slot, slightly softer demeanor it can seem like a small step back from slightly harder edged cars.

I call this the Paris Syndrome. I made it up so you won't find it in the dictionary. When I went to Paris in the early 90s to study, the old French people would lament how Paris had changed. Less people went to Cafes and young French kids went to Hard Rock Paris and ate at McDonalds. But I loved Paris....it was awesome! Since I didn't really know what old Paris was like, I didn't get their point. Later I went back in 2000s with my wife. Now everyone had cell phones and it was weird seeing all the French with cell phones and kids were dressed like Rappers. It felt strange and I told my wife, Paris was a little cooler 10 years ago before cell phones. She looked at me and said...but I love Paris!

So that is my "Paris Syndrome" Of all the new cars I have driven, the M235i is still the best so far but it has softened quite a bit and forced iDrive and dynamic buttons, sound is less to my liking than previous cars that were a little firmer, louder and felt more biased to performance whereas now they feel like 50/50 performance and comfort.

So you have the best midsize car sporty car in the market now. Enjoy it for sure. I just hope they have a retro version or Club Racer version you can get that's lighter and edgier without going to full M2.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by nachob

Great point! The M235i is a great machine when compared to the other cars coming in around it. It is still the best but with the electric steering and forced iDrive, no key slot, slightly softer demeanor it can seem like a small step back from slightly harder edged cars.

I call this the Paris Syndrome. I made it up so you won't find it in the dictionary. When I went to Paris in the early 90s to study, the old French people would lament how Paris had changed. Less people went to Cafes and young French kids went to Hard Rock Paris and ate at McDonalds. But I loved Paris....it was awesome! Since I didn't really know what old Paris was like, I didn't get their point. Later I went back in 2000s with my wife. Now everyone had cell phones and it was weird seeing all the French with cell phones and kids were dressed like Rappers. It felt strange and I told my wife, Paris was a little cooler 10 years ago before cell phones. She looked at me and said...but I love Paris!

So that is my "Paris Syndrome" Of all the new cars I have driven, the M235i is still the best so far but it has softened quite a bit and forced iDrive and dynamic buttons, sound is less to my liking than previous cars that were a little firmer, louder and felt more biased to performance whereas now they feel like 50/50 performance and comfort.

So you have the best midsize car sporty car in the market now. Enjoy it for sure. I just hope they have a retro version or Club Racer version you can get that's lighter and edgier without going to full M2.

BMW has been on this trajectory for a while, making their cars ever more luxurious and accessible to the average driver (read non-enthusiast), while still managing to inject a bit more driving goodness into their cars than the competition.

I currently have an '07 E90 328i with sport package + 6MT and a '14 228i Sport Line + 6MT. Overall, I like the new car better. Part of that is just that's it's new, so it's noticeably more solid and tight, and it's also a bit smaller, which I prefer in city driving. But it's also that it rides much better without any apparent reduction in handling capability (except maybe a touch more body roll before it takes a set), has a much slicker shifter, and has that addictive surge of mid-range turbo power (yes, even the 2.0-liter). I do miss the sound of the inline six and the steering feel of the E90 in the twisties, but I don't miss the heavy steering at low speeds.

Overall, the 228i just seems easier to drive than the E90, whether I'm trundling along in heavy traffic or pushing it hard on a two-laner. Easier is not necessarily better, and I totally get your sense that something important has been lost (Paris Syndrome), but for me, the balance of luxury and performance is just about right.

[m1cism]

Originally Posted by danimal

BMW has been on this trajectory for a while, making their cars ever more luxurious and accessible to the average driver (read non-enthusiast), while still managing to inject a bit more driving goodness into their cars than the competition.

I currently have an '07 E90 328i with sport package + 6MT and a '14 228i Sport Line + 6MT. Overall, I like the new car better. Part of that is just that's it's new, so it's noticeably more solid and tight, and it's also a bit smaller, which I prefer in city driving. But it's also that it rides much better without any apparent reduction in handling capability (except maybe a touch more body roll before it takes a set), has a much slicker shifter, and has that addictive surge of mid-range turbo power (yes, even the 2.0-liter). I do miss the sound of the inline six and the steering feel of the E90 in the twisties, but I don't miss the heavy steering at low speeds.

Overall, the 228i just seems easier to drive than the E90, whether I'm trundling along in heavy traffic or pushing it hard on a two-laner. Easier is not necessarily better, and I totally get your sense that something important has been lost (Paris Syndrome), but for me, the balance of luxury and performance is just about right.

I agree with this completely danimal. I owned a 2008 328i coupe before my 228i and the 228i blows it away. The '08 seems to have extremely tight steering and unbalanced weight distribution. I traded it in for a E-Class pretty quickly. The 228i may feel nicer because it is new, but it certainly has a better feel due to some technological advances.

[RobTaylor]

Originally Posted by m1cism

Agreed. I think my days of driving little rockets are over though. Too many tickets and immaturity, haha.

How many tickets have you gotten in the 228?

[m1cism]

Originally Posted by RobTaylor

How many tickets have you gotten in the 228?

I was referring to my 350z because it had tinted tailights, windows, and it was black. Plus, police officers view that car as trouble. Yes the 228 is a small rocket as well but I have not gotten any tickets since I bought my 228 in June.

In my Z I accumulated over 2,000 in tickets in a 4 year period. Only 1 speeding ticket involved.

[Demetrius Joel]

Originally Posted by m1cism

I was referring to my 350z because it had tinted tailights, windows, and it was black. Plus, police officers view that car as trouble. Yes the 228 is a small rocket as well but I have not gotten any tickets since I bought my 228 in June.

In my Z I accumulated over 2,000 in tickets in a 4 year period. Only 1 speeding ticket involved.

Holy crap. That's a lot of damn tickets.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by m1cism

I was referring to my 350z because it had tinted tailights, windows, and it was black. Plus, police officers view that car as trouble. Yes the 228 is a small rocket as well but I have not gotten any tickets since I bought my 228 in June.

In my Z I accumulated over 2,000 in tickets in a 4 year period. Only 1 speeding ticket involved.

2,000? As in two thousand? So, more than one ticket per day?

I hope these are raffle tickets or carnival ride tickets.

[pikcachu]

i think he means $2000 in tickets ;-)

[danimal]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

i think he means $2000 in tickets ;-)

Well that would make a lot more sense

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

i think he means $2000 in tickets ;-)

His insurance rates must really suck.

[m1cism]

Actually my insurance has barely moved. NJM insurance company is very kind in that matter. This may be due to the fact that 90% of that 2,000 are tinted window / exhaust "loudness" tickets.

That being said, I feel much more confident cruising along in my 228i now around officers.

And yes, I am referring to $$ not amount, lol