[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Madmatt

Mike,

I certainly don't mean to dispute what you are saying but the level of gains for a Enzo Flash tune, according to your own website, shows that it can produce the following on a stock M235:

390hp and 425 ft/lbs at the wheel. That's a gain of 84whp and 125 ft pounds of torque (stock 306/300).

That's a significant increase over the BMS JB1 Stage 1 module which claims a max of 60whp gain (although on the same page it also says a gain of 50hp is max on stock) and 60 ft/lbs or a Scorcher module that is only a stated gain 40whp and 80 ft/lbs of torque. The AAA8 also only boasts gains of 50hp and 47ft/lbs respectfully.

All values are assumed to be WHP's since that is what a dyno measures.

So with that said, how are these stock stage one tuners on par with the Enzo tune?

Based on what I am seeing, yes, a Enzo tune is more pricey, by a lot, but for some people (like me that had been considering the Enzo flash tune) the gains would seem to justify the costs and there is also the claims of much smoother delivery of power in flashed ECU over the piggyback modules. Am I reading those numbers correctly?


Madmatt

Hi,
Let me explain.

AA8, Enzo, Jb4 and Jb can all give you the same power on stock turbos. It just comes down to what each company feels is a safe amount of boost to target on a stock car

Burger Tuning feel that it is not safe to target more than 3.5 psi on the N55 if the user does not have the ability to log the car and make sure all is safe. Thats why 3.5 psi is the max stage 1 can offer

the JB4 map 1 (same manufacturer) gives you +4 psi on the same engine because Jb4 can datalog and user will be able to monitor different variables to make sure all is running smooth. They also offer auto tuning map 5 which can target higher boost if the JB4 feel it is safe. And you have Map 6 which lets the user custom tune the car and target any boost they want.

Active which is similar to a stage 1 with no datalogging features gives the user the choice of any boost between +3 and +5 psi but they strongly recommend not going over +4 on pump gas and stock car

So as you can see it is not that 1 tune can make more power than the other, the reality is different companies have different ideas on what is the safe limit.

As for the Dyno, a word of advice.: Never compare advertised dyno figures. Check out AFE inflated dyno numbers and you will know why.
To compare power either check dragtimes.com or get the same car on the same Dyno within a very reasonable period of time

If you ask all three tuners for a race map, all three maps will give you very similar results

[Madmatt]

Mike,

Thank you for the info and that is pretty much inline with what I have seen discussed here on the forums in all the previous threads about the different piggy back modules.

But, not sure you really addressed my question specifically in your listing of what those modules all do and how much across the board power/boost they add because you didn't go into the same detail regarding the Enzo Performance product which of course is a flash tune, not a piggy-back module. My own research over the past few months echoes what you said about some modules offering one level of boost or another but again, isn't a flash tune a different beast altogether?

You said earlier that any of those Stage 1 tuners was comparable in the power added by a dedicated Enzo flash tune. Do you mean to say that the flash tune that Enzo is doing for 1400 bucks (and again I am talking just on a unmoded M235) is essentially the same as what I can get with the JB4 or Active 8?

Again, I am not trying to put you on the spot, I would genuinely prefer to spend 500 bucks for a module as opposed to 1400 for a flash tune but I still am not seeing how the two are comparable as you said they were for a unmoded car.

What I want is smoother power delivery and more power and torque without slapping a ton of stage 2 style mods on my car. It sounded like the Enzo tune, while the most expensive, seemed to give the best results. I've done ECU flashes before and have always been happy with the results on various vehicles, and I have also used tuner modules (mostly on my motorcycles) but if a piggyback module will give me comparable results on my forthcoming M235, I will gladly save the money and buy a JB4.

Madmatt

[MadOzodi]

Originally Posted by Madmatt

...What I want is smoother power delivery and more power and torque without slapping a ton of stage 2 style mods on my car. It sounded like the Enzo tune, while the most expensive, seemed to give the best results. I've done ECU flashes before and have always been happy with the results on various vehicles, and I have also used tuner modules (mostly on my motorcycles) but if a piggyback module will give me comparable results on my forthcoming M235, I will gladly save the money and buy a JB4.

Matt, you seem just as mad as I...same feeling here as far as what I want to get out of my 2er.

Mike, any input on what mods (in tandem with a JB4) would more safely allow > or = +3.5 psi on pump gas? Or should I assume the Combo deals essentially cover that?

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by MadOzodi

Matt, you seem just as mad as I...same feeling here as far as what I want to get out of my 2er.

Mike, any input on what mods (in tandem with a JB4) would more safely allow > or = +3.5 psi on pump gas? Or should I assume the Combo deals essentially cover that?

Jb4 + catless dp+ charge pipe + intake + fmic. Would be a good start. You should be able to pick that up for around $1900 with everything new.

From there add some ethanol and meth if you deire more power roughly ($400)

All of that should put you in the ballpark of 400-420 whp and 450+ wtq I think.

That's where I am now. Did all of the installs myself too, they are fairly simple if you know your way around the car. Picking up pure's inlet pipe soon.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

Jb4 + catless dp+ charge pipe + intake + fmic. Would be a good start. You should be able to pick that up for around $1900 with everything new.

From there add some ethanol and meth if you deire more power roughly ($400)

All of that should put you in the ballpark of 400-420 whp and 450+ wtq I think.

That's where I am now. Did all of the installs myself too, they are fairly simple if you know your way around the car. Picking up pure's inlet pipe soon.

Edit*. Just was looking at their site. You want the ultimate fbo package. The way I configured it was under $1500. If could start all over again I'd buy this package.

[bryan_G01]

hate to tell you guys, but i highly doubt you'll be over 400whp with any tune with just bolt ons, and you can forgot about 420 -450 without meth.

Jb4 + catless dp+ charge pipe + intake + fmic + e85 is about 375whp.
Flash tune + catless dp+ charge pipe + intake + fmic + e85 is 395whp.

Flash + jb4 (or jb+) + catless dp+ charge pipe + intake + fmic + e85 is 400- 405whp.


An enzo tune or any flash for that matter will get you more tq and a few more whp than a jb4 or any piggyback. Its safer for the car and wont throw any drivetrain codes.

There are cheaper flash tunes available which are very conservative. I'd stay away from them for multiple reasons.

Hit up enzo on his facebook page, tell him i sent you, ask for my map.
https://www.facebook.com/tunedbyenzo/

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by MadOzodi

Matt, you seem just as mad as I...same feeling here as far as what I want to get out of my 2er.

Mike, any input on what mods (in tandem with a JB4) would more safely allow > or = +3.5 psi on pump gas? Or should I assume the Combo deals essentially cover that?

If you just want 3.5psi, just get a jb+ with no other mods.
Run a little e85, youll be a little faster than a m240.

[MadOzodi]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

If you just want 3.5psi, just get a jb+ with no other mods.
Run a little e85, youll be a little faster than a m240.

With my last car, I bolted on everything short of an upgraded turbo and catless DP (removed the 2ndary cat, though) and got a flash tune. I vowed not to go the same route with the 2er.

As always, "you gotta pay to play"...the JB4 may be the route I settle on for now as that seems to allow additional mods in the future.

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by MadOzodi

With my last car, I bolted on everything short of an upgraded turbo and catless DP (removed the 2ndary cat, though) and got a flash tune. I vowed not to go the same route with the 2er.

As always, "you gotta pay to play"...the JB4 may be the route I settle on for now as that seems to allow additional mods in the future.

Don't we all say that?

Purchase something you can use later on with whatever route you go. Jb4 is good, can be used with a flash if you want to stack later on.

[MadOzodi]

Yanno, it'd be nice if COBB put out an Accessport for the N55. I don't know the full story behind their N54 stuff, but I assume they didn't make enough $$$ to justify N55 development.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

If you just want 3.5psi, just get a jb+ with no other mods.
Run a little e85, youll be a little faster than a m240.

+1. Op if you truly don't want to do many supporting mods this is the best bang for your buck by far.

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by MadOzodi

Yanno, it'd be nice if COBB put out an Accessport for the N55. I don't know the full story behind their N54 stuff, but I assume they didn't make enough $$$ to justify N55 development.

Bootmod3 is the "cobb" for our car. You still need to crack the DME first, so its no different than any other flash tune.

And Cobb sucked horribly for n54 cars...

[MadOzodi]

Unfortunately, COBB is my only experience with flash tuning, so I've got some reading-up to do.

OR...save the modicum of brain cells I have left and be happy with piggyback.

E85 isn't available in acceptable proximity to where I live.

Thanks for being patient and courteous with the replies!

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by MadOzodi

Unfortunately, COBB is my only experience with flash tuning, so I've got some reading-up to do.

OR...save the modicum of brain cells I have left and be happy with piggyback.

E85 isn't available in acceptable proximity to where I live.

Thanks for being patient and courteous with the replies!

Op you could always go with just the jb4+ or Dinan sport. If it doesn't suit your needs then I'm sure you could resell it on the forums here for a small loss.