[Straight6Driver]

M235i 8sp. Mods: Wagner sport cat DP, Wagner intercooler, charge pipe and MPE.

JB1 made 338 wheel HP on a mainline dyno in Australia. Ran 12.55 @ 111MPH.

JB4 map 2 made 328 wheel HP on a different mainline dyno. Did 12.65 @ 109MPH. No dyno run with map 5 but it did 12.66 @ 108MPH on the drag strip.

Only one type of fuel used for all of the above - standard 98RON which is about 93 octane in the US.

[XutvJet]

Same tracks? Same density altitude conditions? Different 60 foots? We need to understand the variables first.

Comparing numbers between different dynos isn't going to work. They'll be a variance between even the same make dynos. A dyno is simply a tuning tool and you should use the same one and the same gear when comparing numbers.

[zipphreak]

Best to go here;
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Grab a couple of 4th gear runs through the RPM with the JB4 interface connected and logging on... You will get someone smart to review the logs and point out issues

Even different brands spit out vastly different numbers. I guarantee different dyno's of the same brand have different variances of calibrations.

Run multiple dynos with adequate cool downs between stage1, stage2 map 2 map5 etc with the same tuner/dyno..

[Straight6Driver]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Same tracks? Same density altitude conditions? Different 60 foots? We need to understand the variables first.

Comparing numbers between different dynos isn't going to work. They'll be a variance between even the same make dynos. A dyno is simply a tuning tool and you should use the same one and the same gear when comparing numbers.

Yes same track. Jb1 runs had 20 degree C temp. Jb4 runs were around 16 degree C.

1.97 60ft with the 12.55 JB1 run.
2.05 60ft with the 12.65 JB4 map 2 run.

Agree with the dyno variations, thats why I took the car to the same drag strip to see the MPH. In any case, even if I got a worse 60ft with the JB4, the MPH should at least equivalent or higher than what JB1 (with less boost) achieved.

[Straight6Driver]

Originally Posted by zipphreak

Best to go here;
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Grab a couple of 4th gear runs through the RPM with the JB4 interface connected and logging on... You will get someone smart to review the logs and point out issues

Even different brands spit out vastly different numbers. I guarantee different dyno's of the same brand have different variances of calibrations.

Run multiple dynos with adequate cool downs between stage1, stage2 map 2 map5 etc with the same tuner/dyno..

Yes that's what I'd like to do but don't have the logging gear. I'm speaking to the shop who supplied the JB4 to see if they can log it for me.

[zipphreak]

It's just a USB cable and laptop, you don't need the bluetooth connect kit to log.. Buy the $35 USB cable, hopefully you have a windows laptop.

http://www.burgertuning.com/USB_Cable_Extension.html

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Straight6Driver

M235i 8sp. Mods: Wagner sport cat DP, Wagner intercooler, charge pipe and MPE.

JB1 made 338 wheel HP on a mainline dyno in Australia. Ran 12.55 @ 111MPH.

JB4 map 2 made 328 wheel HP on a different mainline dyno. Did 12.65 @ 109MPH. No dyno run with map 5 but it did 12.66 @ 108MPH on the drag strip.

Only one type of fuel used for all of the above - standard 98RON which is about 93 octane in the US.

first the dyno comparison does not indicate anything since you used 2 different dynos

track times vary depending on lots of things including conditions, temps,etc

Map 5 boost values are variable so it is not a good map to use when comparing power.

Lastly, do couple logs and make sure everything is okay... No timing drops, throttle closure, etc...

[turbocake]

Having come from owning and tuning many different cars over the years. While disappointing, the results you are seeing are non-conclusive at best. You would need to do pulls on the same dyno, on the same day, within minutes of each other and confirm throughout the pull that IATs and air density is the same pull to pull. I agree that you should get some logs, and also confirm that you are switching to the maps you think you are.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Unfortunately I have to agree with the majority here. The data isn't controlled.

Even on a track there are too many factors, Launch, DA, Ambients, Humidity, Heat soak, ETC

Jb4 has the capability to be faster, more mods, more octane.

Logging is a must if you want to find where your vehicle needs improvement, IE IAT.

[Straight6Driver]

Still haven't had the chance to log because the shop has been busy, but they did find out that they were misinformed about my JB4 do not need EWG wiring. They supplied my JB4 with FF wire but no EWG wire.

I was told for any map higher than map 1 JB4 will need EWG wiring to hit target boost? Is this true?

They said this was why I lost 2 mph at the drags strip compared to JB1, even though it was on a cooler ambient temp condition.

[Straight6Driver]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Unfortunately I have to agree with the majority here. The data isn't controlled.

Even on a track there are too many factors, Launch, DA, Ambients, Humidity, Heat soak, ETC

Jb4 has the capability to be faster, more mods, more octane.

Logging is a must if you want to find where your vehicle needs improvement, IE IAT.

I agree with JB4 has the capability to be faster, which was why I decided to upgrade in the first place.

Everyone says dyno is not the best comparison tool, only way to see if there's considerable gain is MPH from the drag strip. And that's exactly what I did.

Conditions were controlled to the best of my ability - same track, same tires, same tire pressure, same launch RPM, even the same lane. The evening which JB4 was tested the ambient temp was lower by 4 degrees. You do the math. Tell me if I missed anything as far as controlled drag strip testing is concerned.

[Bakks]

Originally Posted by Straight6Driver

Still haven't had the chance to log because the shop has been busy, but they did find out that they were misinformed about my JB4 do not need EWG wiring. They supplied my JB4 with FF wire but no EWG wire.

I was told for any map higher than map 1 JB4 will need EWG wiring to hit target boost? Is this true?

They said this was why I lost 2 mph at the drags strip compared to JB1, even though it was on a cooler ambient temp condition.

EWG wiring is not used for map 1 or 2, but it is in map 5.

[Straight6Driver]

Originally Posted by Bakks

EWG wiring is not used for map 1 or 2, but it is in map 5.

Oh my shop seems to be under the impression map 2 as well since it's now a adaptive map

[Bee Pee]

S6 Driver,

Maps 1 and 2 are additive maps with partial adaption capability during a short intial learning phase. EWG direct control is inactive for both these maps.

Direct EWG control is active for all absolute maps ie 3, 5, 6 and 7 - all of which are designed to give higher boost safely than maps 1 and 2. You could run map 5 without EWG hooked up but may not get the same gains as with say map 2.

When EWG is hooked and active - you have to have FF wired in to allow JB4 to directly monitor/control fuel trims and AFR.

BP

[leeadam]

Originally Posted by Straight6Driver

M235i 8sp. Mods: Wagner sport cat DP, Wagner intercooler, charge pipe and MPE.

JB1 made 338 wheel HP on a mainline dyno in Australia. Ran 12.55 @ 111MPH.

JB4 map 2 made 328 wheel HP on a different mainline dyno. Did 12.65 @ 109MPH. No dyno run with map 5 but it did 12.66 @ 108MPH on the drag strip.

Only one type of fuel used for all of the above - standard 98RON which is about 93 octane in the US.

with your JB1 figures at 338 at wheel what do you recon its putting out at flywheel?

[Straight6Driver]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

S6 Driver,

Maps 1 and 2 are additive maps with partial adaption capability during a short intial learning phase. EWG direct control is inactive for both these maps.

Direct EWG control is active for all absolute maps ie 3, 5, 6 and 7 - all of which are designed to give higher boost safely than maps 1 and 2. You could run map 5 without EWG hooked up but may not get the same gains as with say map 2.

When EWG is hooked and active - you have to have FF wired in to allow JB4 to directly monitor/control fuel trims and AFR.

BP

Thanks for the clarification BP. They have ordered the EWG wire for me, can't wait to see the difference it makes. At the moment I couldn't feel much difference between map 2 and map 5, the similar MPH at the drags reflects this.

[Straight6Driver]

Originally Posted by leeadam

with your JB1 figures at 338 at wheel what do you recon its putting out at flywheel?

No idea. Do you have a formula for that? It did get 111MPH at the strip and thats a more convincing data than any dyno figures.

[leeadam]

Originally Posted by Straight6Driver

No idea. Do you have a formula for that? It did get 111MPH at the strip and thats a more convincing data than any dyno figures.

I never know what the formula is, some say 25% some say 15%...and i realise dynos all different, and many things affect it, just interested to know what it may be...i guess around 360 bhp ish. quite good

[Straight6Driver]

Originally Posted by leeadam

I never know what the formula is, some say 25% some say 15%...and i realise dynos all different, and many things affect it, just interested to know what it may be...i guess around 360 bhp ish. quite good

Yeah I think 360hp at the crank is a pretty good guesstimate. There's website where you can work out the HP based on weight and MPH from the 1/4 mile strip, and vice versa.