[abp689]

Originally Posted by ManCityFan

what are CF brakes? but anyway...I think you've missed the point here: for most of us, it's not just about the performance numbers.

Agreed it must be a balanced package; but performance is very much a major part of the decision. Otherwise we would be discussing the 228; with less weight upfront, it might even be a better balanced package albeit with a bit less punch.

[c1pher]

You honestly can't go wrong with the GT. I too am cross shopping. My 3.7 Mustang is fun but I am looking to upgrade.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by abp689

Agreed it must be a balanced package; but performance is very much a major part of the decision. Otherwise we would be discussing the 228; with less weight upfront, it might even be a better balanced package albeit with a bit less punch.

And I'm also looking at the 228 much like I did the 3.7. I actually preferred the balance and handling of the v6 over the 5.0.

[Year's_End]

I'm just waiting to get my X-Plan pins in a couple of months so I can place an order for a 2015 GT Premium with all the goodies (performance package, MFT, Recaros, 6MT, etc.). It'll MSRP around $43-45k, but I'll be able to get it for right around $39k before TTL.

I have no allegiance with any particular brand. The best value wins for me every time. In this case, I know that the S550 will be a complete weapon for the money. It's good looking, has a V8, an LSD out back, and carries a bunch of attributes that are attractive for me at this point.

Had a chance to sit in an M235i at a local car show a few months ago and realized that I'm really far more into performance driving than luxury at this point in my life. I'm 24 and figure that now's about as good a time as any to get something like a Mustang before it's too late. Luxury, sound insulation, and having a mood-killing F/I engine can sit out for the next five to six years as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a look at how different it's going to be compared to the older S197s.


Dat face. They already did the aftermarket work by fitting the cars with good looking splitters.


Dat ass.

[puma1552]

^^^Very well said.

I ordered my '14 in February after looking at the '15 for a couple months and taking my sweet time deciding what I liked more. I didn't LOVE the '15 at first sight which is still true whereas I loved the hell out of the '13 refresh on the sting from day one.

I tend to like getting the end of a run because personally I'll only ever compare my car to others from the same generation, the S197 of which I think I got the best ('13-'14) so whenever I see an older S197, I'll be happiest with mine also knowing no S197 will come out better than mine. Whereas personally if I got the '15 - which is a nice car and will outperform mine for sure - I'd end up feeling jealous of the '16, '17, and eventually the face lifted '18-'19…kind of like how I think the '05 looks like butt compared to a '10+ and especially a '13-'14, I know myself too well to know that's how I'd end up feeling about the '15 as successive years were released…then again I could always trade up but I want to keep this car for a while. Plus I figure then I get to experience the S197 chassis and in a few years when they refresh the S550, that will be one sweet ride I think.

Good on you for going with what you like, I did the same. We all win in days like these where there's hot performance from every manufacturer for reasonable prices. 15 years ago this was a complete dream.

[w3rkn]

Again...

There really is no comparing the old Mustang to the new one.
It is such a massive departure from what Ford has previously produced & has become refined enough for people like me to even consider one.

I will have to wait to see the driving mechanics, & actual road feel, etc.. but those trying to knock the Mustang without first knowing about what this car is, will look ignorant come October.



Again... how much weight did the M235i gain, over my 135is..?
Why does the M235i not come STANDARD with an LSD..?
Can you get Recaros in the M235i ..?

My 135is was $52k..
I will be looking at a 2017 Mustang SVT for nearly the same price... which will carry the performance similar to the M4 & offer similar amenities as my 135is. But even a basic $37 Mustang will out handle my $52k 135is.. and it won't come with a CDV... (which is an utter embarrassment for BMW.)

Plus, the Mustang is American made...
But, Alan Mulally mentioned that Europe will have a hard time believing it's an American car.



BTW, I am cross shopping M2, Mustang SVT & Corvette..
If the M2 comes in with just thrills and zero weight reduction over the 235i, then there is zero point in buying it.. so it will leave Ford & Chevy. I don't have high hopes for BMW M-division any more. The M2 better impress..

[bladeomatic]

FWIW…this past weekend I was able to take my fully-broken-in M235i to some back country foothills for a little play time with some canyon driving. Very quiet roads, some flats, areas with turns, mild uphill and downhill areas. Similar to pic below. Came across a chap with a 2014 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500. It looked badass.

When the road was wide and open, we played tag a bit. He definitely could pull away from me on the straights with all that horsepower. Plus I had a passenger, he didn't. Still, he had something ungodly like 650+ under the hood to my 320-ish. BUT, when we came to the curvy areas, I was able to slice him up easily, increasing my lead through each corner.

We talked for a bit after this and sat in each other's cars. His car was impressive. I asked him what he was getting for mileage around town. He gulped and said "12". I secretly chuckled as I'm getting almost twice that.

For the kind of driving I do (city DD w/ some weekend twisties) I definitely got the right car for me.

[ORIGIN M.]

Resale value alone is the biggest factor and the BMW does not disappoint.

[ba83]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

FWIWthis past weekend I was able to take my fully-broken-in M235i to some back country foothills for a little play time with some canyon driving. Very quiet roads, some flats, areas with turns, mild uphill and downhill areas. Similar to pic below. Came across a chap with a 2014 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500. It looked badass.

When the road was wide and open, we played tag a bit. He definitely could pull away from me on the straights with all that horsepower. Plus I had a passenger, he didn't. Still, he had something ungodly like 650+ under the hood to my 320-ish. BUT, when we came to the curvy areas, I was able to slice him up easily, increasing my lead through each corner.

We talked for a bit after this and sat in each other's cars. His car was impressive. I asked him what he was getting for mileage around town. He gulped and said "12". I secretly chuckled as I'm getting almost twice that.

For the kind of driving I do (city DD w/ some weekend twisties) I definitely got the right car for me.

I drove the new 662hp gt 500 on some nice canyon roads and it has very little useable power and bmw is much easier to drive quickly.

Sad as it is ,the mustang was so over powered and tail happy that an average to slightly experienced enthusiast would have trouble in the corners

The boss 302 had a nice balance and thats about where my comfort with power ends.

I have no doubt that the new mustang would handle better but in the real world where there are bumps and corners, i felt more comfortable with my bmw

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by ba83

I drove the new 662hp gt 500 on some nice canyon roads and it has very little useable power and bmw is much easier to drive quickly.

Sad as it is ,the mustang was so over powered and tail happy that an average to slightly experienced enthusiast would have trouble in the corners

The boss 302 had a nice balance and thats about where my comfort with power ends.

I have no doubt that the new mustang would handle better but in the real world where there are bumps and corners, i felt more comfortable with my bmw

I tried to make a similar point couple pages back. Most people are not competent enough at driving to use the power in these cars. They have false psychological sense of power and that's fine to.

[aspensilver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPy0T3Fojt0

Nice video showing the M235I flying around corners. However, it's still slower than a 2013 Mustang GT w/ track pack. The new S550 GT will provide better track performance than the Boss, so it will demolish the M235I.

I was obsessed with the M235I until I saw the new S550 GT back in December. Prior to seeing the S550 I had been reading about people wanting lots of power, LSD standard, etc. and the Mustang has all of that.

The interior quality of Ford has gone up a LOT since the prior S197 Mustang. The new Premium interior is equivalent to the 2 series premium. I know many here would never believe that but I think BMW's interior quality has gone down, and the design of the interior is a bit bland.

Where I think BMW will have the edge is ergonomics and driving position. I haven't seen a single Ford get close to BMW's perfect driving position. A lot of this is that Ford still hasn't built a proper electronic telescoping wheel, but it really only affects people that like a low wheel position like me. I haven't gotten to adjust a S550 wheel yet but that is the one area the Mustang might fall short, and it can result in significantly less comfortable driving experience.

But performance? Wow, BMW has been passed, lapped, and for thousands less. And the interior quality is not a big gap anymore like with the hideous S197 Mustang.

Originally Posted by WWM

The performance of the GT is intriguing but it still looks like a Mustang and will get crap MPG. No thanks.

Take the 8K you save on the GT and use it towards the probably 2-3K extra spent on gas. Profit 5K and have a much faster car.

Originally Posted by Bennu

I would never consider buying a mustang when the M235i is priced very close even with if the mustang has more power. First thing you gotta realize is the extra power you will prob use in the real world maybe less than 15% of the time. Damn you can't even use the 322hp in the 2 series unless you're a professional driver and driving it on a track.

Why didn't you buy a 228I then?

The biggest factors for me is the build quality and at the end of the day you're still driving a Ford. Unless it's a Ford GT super car. Does that sound a bit superficial? Maybe but after driving Fords and BMWs the differences in the two in terms of driving feel could not be more different.

Yeah it does sound superficial. You need to try the new Ford products. Once you sit in a GT Premium and hear it start up in person you are going to think differently. The S197 is a garbage car compared to the M235I but the new S550 is a huge leap forward.

Originally Posted by Lucky13

20 people mention the Mustang competing with the M235 and only one mentions it's No.1 rival the Camaro. Read some car magazines and you'll see that many current Mustang owners do not like the new Fusion front end and it gained weight.
I seriously doubt that if someone currently owns a BMW they would buy a Mustang, does it happen yes does it happen a lot doubtful. People rarely trade down from a Luxury/Premium brand to an Mass Market brand. The vast majority of Mustang purchases will be by current Mustang or Ford owners, domestic brand owners or Japanese brands.

Actually the Mustang forum is filled with Mustang guys who love the new design.

I own a BMW and I was going to buy a M235I but I want an S550 now. You are right that badge fanboys will scoff at a Ford product, that is true. I'm seeing several M3, 335, 135I guys on the mustang6g forum so I think you're wrong about people that really care about performance.

[GMe90]

I would get the new Mustang GT over the 235i in a heartbeat. Although I haven't driven the new Mustang, I suspect that it will be a better driver's car than the 235i. Pairing that V8 to a manual transmission coupled with IRS and LSD will make that beast a real driver's car.

[GMe90]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Resale value alone is the biggest factor and the BMW does not disappoint.

Do you honestly believe this BS from BMW? Have you tried trading in your BMW or selling it? You will lose your a$$, my friend.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by GMe90

Do you honestly believe this BS from BMW? Have you tried trading in your BMW or selling it? You will lose your a$$, my friend.

You really think a Ford has a better resale than a BMW? That's a laugh.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by aspensilver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPy0T3Fojt0

Nice video showing the M235I flying around corners. However, it's still slower than a 2013 Mustang GT w/ track pack. The new S550 GT will provide better track performance than the Boss, so it will demolish the M235I.

I was obsessed with the M235I until I saw the new S550 GT back in December. Prior to seeing the S550 I had been reading about people wanting lots of power, LSD standard, etc. and the Mustang has all of that.

The interior quality of Ford has gone up a LOT since the prior S197 Mustang. The new Premium interior is equivalent to the 2 series premium. I know many here would never believe that but I think BMW's interior quality has gone down, and the design of the interior is a bit bland.

Where I think BMW will have the edge is ergonomics and driving position. I haven't seen a single Ford get close to BMW's perfect driving position. A lot of this is that Ford still hasn't built a proper electronic telescoping wheel, but it really only affects people that like a low wheel position like me. I haven't gotten to adjust a S550 wheel yet but that is the one area the Mustang might fall short, and it can result in significantly less comfortable driving experience.

But performance? Wow, BMW has been passed, lapped, and for thousands less. And the interior quality is not a big gap anymore like with the hideous S197 Mustang.

Take the 8K you save on the GT and use it towards the probably 2-3K extra spent on gas. Profit 5K and have a much faster car.

Why didn't you buy a 228I then?

Yeah it does sound superficial. You need to try the new Ford products. Once you sit in a GT Premium and hear it start up in person you are going to think differently. The S197 is a garbage car compared to the M235I but the new S550 is a huge leap forward.

Actually the Mustang forum is filled with Mustang guys who love the new design.

I own a BMW and I was going to buy a M235I but I want an S550 now. You are right that badge fanboys will scoff at a Ford product, that is true. I'm seeing several M3, 335, 135I guys on the mustang6g forum so I think you're wrong about people that really care about performance.

I won't buy a 228 cause I can afford an M235i which to me is a better car. Just as I will be getting the M2 when it comes out cause that will be an even better version of what I have here.

I just loaded up a 2015 Mustang GT with every option I could find and the MSRP is $43,655. That's less than a base M235i at MSRP. A loaded M235i is over $52,000.

Ever thought that perhaps the reason some are switching to the Mustang is more because they can't afford to buy the BMW?
Therefore, they're not really sold on the Ford product it's just for the money and their financial situation, it makes sense.

American muscle cars have always been the cheap alternative to have lots of power in a sporty car. And there is nothing wrong with that, it helps to keep our economy running. But don't try to make it seem like the new Mustang is a better car. That is absurd.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Bennu

I won't buy a 228 cause I can afford an M235i which to me is a better car. Just as I will be getting the M2 when it comes out cause that will be an even better version of what I have here.

I just loaded up a 2015 Mustang GT with every option I could find and the MSRP is $43,655. That's less than a base M235i at MSRP. A loaded M235i is over $52,000.

Ever thought that perhaps the reason some are switching to the Mustang is more because they can't afford to buy the BMW?
Therefore, they're not really sold on the Ford product it's just for the money and their financial situation, it makes sense.

American muscle cars have always been the cheap alternative to have lots of power in a sporty car. And there is nothing wrong with that, it helps to keep our economy running. But don't try to make it seem like the new Mustang is a better car. That is absurd.

It's okay to drink the kool-aid, but realize that approaching things from a financial point of view when comparing these two cars is flawed from the get go.

A large reason why the M235i costs more comes down to the added luxury amenities, which makes it completely reasonable as to why many would consider it the better car. Me? I'd rather have a more visceral machine (which could be worded as cheaper, less luxurious, etc.) that performs better while being a completely reasonable daily driver. If someone offered me a choice between an M235i vs a loaded 435i M-Sport, I'd take the M235i. Just because something's more expensive does not mean it's the preferred car even if cost isn't a factor.

This is far more appealing to me at my current stage in life will always have a soft spot for short wheelbase Bimmers though!

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

It's okay to drink the kool-aid, but realize that approaching things from a financial point of view when comparing these two cars is flawed from the get go.

A large reason why the M235i costs more comes down to the added luxury amenities, which makes it completely reasonable as to why many would consider it the better car. Me? I'd rather have a more visceral machine (which could be worded as cheaper, less luxurious, etc.) that performs better while being a completely reasonable daily driver. If someone offered me a choice between an M235i vs a loaded 435i M-Sport, I'd take the M235i. Just because something's more expensive does not mean it's the preferred car even if cost isn't a factor.

This is far more appealing to me at my current stage in life will always have a soft spot for short wheelbase Bimmers though!

We can approach it from many points of view not just financial. It's the other way around. The BMW is not a better car cause it's more expensive, it's more expensive cause it's a better car.

You still haven't responded to the question that some might be choosing the Mustang cause they can't afford the BMW. Don't you think that's a possibility? Financial is one thing but some will prefer the Mustang no matter what cause they won't buy a BMW. Others will choose the Mustang cause they have drank the "American Only Car" koolaid. That's fine also. Either way I think I have a good argument that the cost of the M235i with the options people want in a car at $50,000+ is more than what some people want to spend on a new car therefore the mustang makes a good alternative at $10,000 - $15,000 less. Especially if you change cars every 2 - 3 years.

With all the statistics and real world experience showing otherwise, you still come here on a BMW forum and think the Ford is a better car? LOL No worries, whatever works for you.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Bennu

We can approach it from many points of view not just financial. It's the other way around. The BMW is not a better car cause it's more expensive, it's more expensive cause it's a better car.

You still haven't responded to the question that some might be choosing the Mustang cause they can't afford the BMW. Don't you think that's a possibility? Financial is one thing but some will prefer the Mustang no matter what cause they won't buy a BMW. Others will choose the Mustang cause they have drank the "American Only Car" koolaid. That's fine also. Either way I think I have a good argument that the cost of the M235i with the options people want in a car at $50,000+ is more than what some people want to spend on a new car therefore the mustang makes a good alternative at $10,000 - $15,000 less. Especially if you change cars every 2 - 3 years.

With all the statistics and real world experience showing otherwise, you still come here on a BMW forum and think the Ford is a better car? LOL No worries, whatever works for you.

To answer your question bluntly: yes, it's entirely plausible that people would opt for a Mustang on a financial basis. Is it an absolute rule that applies to a majority? That's impossible to make a call on. There's a consistent $7-10k differential between a premium GT and an M235i. I'd say that when you look at what the two have to offer, you know where Ford and BMW have decided to allocate their funds. The Ford's going to take a big beating on the latest tech amenities and interior material quality. All of the bells and whistles might be there at 8/10ths the level of quality, but you know that the chassis and powertrain will be killer.

And regarding your last little quip, I've been on this forum for way too long. I routinely lurk here but actively contribute to other forums that aren't brand-centric because the users are typically more open minded. I used to think BMW was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but times have changed and I've long since been an automotive enthusiast over a BMW enthusiast. Doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't post here anymore.

[scottomfg]

When it comes to price, one factor I haven't seen mentioned is how the lease rates compare. Given historical data for previous GTs, I would guess a $43k GT will cost *more* to lease than a $51k M235i. This is due to a 10% difference in residual and higher interest rates from Ford and the lack of an MSD option. Also, in about 6 months, I'd guess, you'll be able to get a significantly higher discount off MSRP on the M235i than the GT just based on the fact that there is much more room between invoice and MSRP. So, if you lease,

[cvandenhaute]

I actually did cross-shop a 128i and a 5.0 GT since that is the true comparison in term of price 4 years ago and will probably cross shop a 228i, a M235i and a GT again. Different times, different cars. Back then with a budget around $36K, I picked the 128i over the GT because of the connected feel, it was slower but felt tighter. Loved the V8 but also loved the N52 engine, it was close but I thought that I would be way happier in a 128i. The next time around I am way less certain. I am pretty sure that the 228i is out because I don’t feel like an upgrade getting from the wonderful creamy N52 engine to the N20 engine (hate 4 cylinder engines, always did, I don’t care that they are more efficient). Seeing what Ford did with the focus ST, makes me believe that the 2015 will be more of a sports car than the previous model and the newer BMW (exception for the M3/M4) are not getting in a direction I like in term of connection to the road. At the end of the day, it will be settled by test drive but I bet on the GT as far as best bang and smiles for the bucks for the low 40k. Also they look like they vastly improved their build quality. The big question will be how the steering feels, how the car feels as a whole and about the character (want a V8 before their gone).

[WWM]

Once again, this obsession with track times is ridiculous. The car media has really done a number on people with the constant talk about how cars perform at 90-100% on a race track, when an incredibly small percentage of the enthusiast crowd tracks their car frequently and has the ability to actually push the car to that level. So it's cool that a Mustang GT is slightly faster than an M235i around a track. Great. Amazing! What about the interior? Comfort? Fuel efficiency? Real world speed for passing, etc? You know, the stuff that matters the 99.99% of the time you aren't on a track.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by WWM

Once again, this obsession with track times is ridiculous. The car media has really done a number on people with the constant talk about how cars perform at 90-100% on a race track, when an incredibly small percentage of the enthusiast crowd tracks their car frequently and has the ability to actually push the car to that level. So it's cool that a Mustang GT is slightly faster than an M235i around a track. Great. Amazing! What about the interior? Comfort? Fuel efficiency? Real world speed for passing, etc? You know, the stuff that matters the 99.99% of the time you aren't on a track.

Then the M235i is definitely the right car for you and easily the better between the two. On the flipside, that's not what I'm into. I'd rather have something on the sportier end of the spectrum and sacrifice the creature comforts. Plus I think I'd have more fun cruising around, rowing gears, and listening to the exhaust of an uncorked V8. I'd rather have the Mustang even if I never tracked the car in its entire lifetime (which would never be the case ).

Point is that we all have different preferences.