[shark715]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The corporate strategy seems to be image-building more than volume.

Can you explain what you mean? Sounds interesting, and obviously you have a lot of insight regarding BMW, but I don't think I follow you.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by shark715

Can you explain what you mean? Sounds interesting, and obviously you have a lot of insight regarding BMW, but I don't think I follow you.

It's been no secret that the 3 and up BMWs have drifted from the original Ultimate Driving Machine premise to more almost MB-like luxury. BMW is working on a new platform, called 35UP, for the purposes inherent in its name. The buzz is that these new 3,5,etc. Series will be trying to return to the brand roots in their size segments. Meanwhile, with the time having arrived to replace the 1 due to normal product life cycles, note the entire positioning of the 2 at launch as the inheritor of the touchstone 2002 from way back when, before status-seekers glommed on, and the cars were sought out by a knowledgeable few who really appreciated the driving experience and the funny little square box design was part of the charm. The modern day equivalent of this positioning in the 2 Series is the stake in the ground of the move the brand hopes to make back to cars which reflect their heritage. So, the 2 has the task of generating press, enthusiasm, and positive reviews, as it has done, to set the course for future new car model introductions.

The parallel launching of SUVs, SAVs, etc. are just a reality of remaining competitive in the marketplace as segment demand continues to evolve.

[shark715]

Got it, thanks!

[shark715]

If that really happens with the other series, that would be great. I had a 328 xdrive loaner car and it was about as entertaining to drive as a Toyota Camry.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The buzz is that these new 3,5,etc. Series will be trying to return to the brand roots in their size segments.

There are ways that they can return to the brand's roots in terms of performance, but it's too late with respect to size. Once the "bloat" happens and the 3 is the size of the former 5, the 5 the size of the former 7 and the 7 the size of a whale there is no turning back. Even the MINI isn't mini anymore. They can't downsize these cars now because too many people equate value and prestige with size. In their minds the bigger car has more value which is one reason why the 2 Series doesn't sell as well as the 3 and 4 Series. The thinking is, "Hey, for a couple of grand more (or maybe even the same money), I can get a bigger car". This bloat problem is not unique to BMW. It's an industry-wide phenomenon. If the 2 Series coupe is successful, I fully expect it to grow in size and eventually spawn a four door model. I know it sounds crazy now, but who ever expected a 4 door MINI or a huge SUV that carries the MINI name (Countryman)?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by chaswyck@yahoo.com

There are ways that they can return to the brand's roots in terms of performance, but it's too late with respect to size. Once the "bloat" happens and the 3 is the size of the former 5, the 5 the size of the former 7 and the 7 the size of a whale there is no turning back. Even the MINI isn't mini anymore. They can't downsize these cars now because too many people equate value and prestige with size. In their minds the bigger car has more value which is one reason why the 2 Series doesn't sell as well as the 3 and 4 Series. The thinking is, "Hey, for a couple of grand more (or maybe even the same money), I can get a bigger car". This bloat problem is not unique to BMW. It's an industry-wide phenomenon. If the 2 Series coupe is successful, I fully expect it to grow in size and eventually spawn a four door model. I know it sounds crazy now, but who ever expected a 4 door MINI or a huge SUV that carries the MINI name (Countryman)?

Compare the new 2016 Audi Q7 to the prior generation.
Compare the current Honda Accord to the prior generation.

Size and/or weight can be adjusted in new generation products if it fits the customer requirements and there is evidence that the prior model went beyond the ideal.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by durangodoug

I was liking the 4 series until I got to test drive the 2, that's when I fell in love. I had to search hard for into on the 2 series and while I was test driving the car the salesman told me that nobody at the dealership had been "allowed" to drive the 235....but they all got to drive the M4. I live in north metro Atlanta and see plenty of 3,5,7,X,Z, etc. daily. I'd say toward the end of 2014 is when I began to see a TON of 4 series. I've only seen two other 2-series since getting the car in October. Nice being in the 2 series family with yall.

I still haven't seen an i8 in person.

We have the i8 here in South Germany driving and looking good. I view the 4 series as pylons to play with. Good there are so many of them to annoy

[shark715]

When can I place my order for the upcoming zero series?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by shark715

When can I place my order for the upcoming zero series?

For that one, I can take your deposit. I make deliveries every day, or so I'm told!

[Sp1ke]

The rarity of the 2er is what attrats me most.
Do you all think the low sales will make them
hold their value stronger or make them weaker
in the used car market?

Either way, I'll be benefitting in another year or 2.

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by Sp1ke

The rarity of the 2er is what attrats me most.
Do you all think the low sales will make them
hold their value stronger or make them weaker
in the used car market?

Either way, I'll be benefitting in another year or 2.

I think BMW is making the number of two series they think they can sell. I doubt the demand will be any better in the used car market than it is in the new.

[Vector Pilot]

The numbers comes as no surprise, the 2 series coupe and soon convertible given it's size and level of performance only appeals to BMW's core enthusiasts. Not sure about how you may feel but when I see Toyota type drivers behind the wheel of a base 3 or 4 series it's cause for concern. Pleased to know I'm not part of the generic majority.

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

The numbers comes as no surprise, the 2 series coupe and soon convertible given it's size and level of performance only appeals to BMW's core enthusiasts. Not sure about how you may feel but when I see Toyota type drivers behind the wheel of a base 3 or 4 series it's cause for concern. Pleased to know I'm not part of the generic majority.

This is such a douchie statement...why do you have to make yourself feel superior. What is a Toyota type driver...one thats not douchie?

[chaswyck1]

I don't see the used car market for our cars being any different than the new car market for them. They have limited appeal because of their size and the fact that they're coupes. There will always be people who want them and who perhaps can't afford a new one, but their numbers will be as small as the number of people who buy them new. With the resale of anything whether it's cars, houses, boats, etc., as a seller you always want as big a pool of potential buyers as possible. Right now the houses that are popular are the newer ones with an "open concept", but there are still people out there who want houses that are quaint and that have character. There are just fewer people who want those houses so they take longer to sell. The pool of buyers for our cars is not big. I think this speaks to the choices that are made when we buy these cars. More traditional colors will have a somewhat bigger pool of buyers than my VO, for example. And, while I don't want to turn this thread into another "manual vs auto" debate, manual cars will have a smaller pool of buyers than automatics. I also don't want to turn this into a "buy vs lease" thread, but all of these considerations are irrelevant for a leased car because leasees have a guaranteed buyer, BMW.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by chaswyck@yahoo.com

I know it sounds crazy now, but who ever expected a 4 door MINI or a huge SUV that carries the MINI name (Countryman)?

I think this is going to surprise you, but the "huge" 2015 MINI Countryman is 161" long, while the 2-Series BMW is... 174" long. The 2-Series is more than a foot longer than the new Countryman!

It seems that the new MINIs are bloated (compared to what they once were), but in actuality, they are still quite small, when compared to pretty much anything other than a Smart car.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I think this is going to surprise you, but the "huge" 2015 MINI Countryman is 161" long, while the 2-Series BMW is... 174" long. The 2-Series is more than a foot longer than the new Countryman!

It seems that the new MINIs are bloated (compared to what they once were), but in actuality, they are still quite small, when compared to pretty much anything other than a Smart car.

I agree that relative to other cars, including the 2 Series, they are still small but their name after all, is MINI and now they're less "mini" than they used to be. (And the Countryman isn't "mini" at all). My point was that even they are victims of the bloat. My last lease was a MINI S and the reason I started looking into the 2 Series was that the new one had "grown" and that growth opened me up to other somewhat larger cars. I also didn't care for the redesign, but for the first two years of my lease, there was no question in my mind that I was going to lease another MINI.