[jmwilson125]

Just did an oil change and found some metal shavings in the oil pan and filter. I snapped a couple pictures attached here.

The pieces are not magnetic. And the scale shown it the picture is in inches. The round one measured .002" thick. The others were thicker. This is a small sample of the shavings. It's pretty difficult to quantify how many shavings there were. Maybe a small pinch of salt... Or 100 total shavings this size or smaller within 7 quarts of oil/ filter. It didn't not seem like a large amount. The pieces pictured were the largest ones that I saw.

The car is a BMW m235i. I bought the car brand new and followed the correct engine break in procedure.

The car is currently at 35,000 miles. This was the 4th oil change. The dealership does them every 10,000 miles. I decided to start doing my own change between the dealership changes. I just did this one myself at 34,000 miles. I also just installed a magnetic oil drain plug on this last go around.

The car is currently fbo with methanol injection. Last season I did a few hpde events as well.

So the question is should I be worried about these metallic shavings? How worried should I be? What inspections or testing can I do to confirm if it's an issue or not? Should I send an oil sample to Blackstone labs for oil analysis?

I know some metal shavings are normal with a new engine. Maybe since I tracked the car last season more are showing up from increased stress/ heat etc?

[Anthony235]

Are you sure the metal shavings were not already in the container you used to catch the oil?? Perhaps you should to a blackstone oil analysis.

You can also carefully cut the oil filter in half. Then check for shavings in there.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Are you sure the metal shavings were not already in the container you used to catch the oil?? Perhaps you should to a blackstone oil analysis.

You can also carefully cut the oil filter in half. Then check for shavings in there.

Yes, I just ordered my test kit from Blackstone now. And it was a new oil pan. Also the m235i has an oil filter housing. You just pull the actual filter out when you swap it. There were some shavings in there as well.

[overcoil]

Am I correct that one of the shavings is bright silver and two other are darkish, one at least being bi-colored?

The bright camshaft ?

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Am I correct that one of the shavings is bright silver and two other are darkish, one at least being bi-colored?

The bright camshaft ?

I'd say they were all pretty bright. Just the angle and the lighting males them look darker.

None was magnetic. Silver in color, felt reasonably stiff. The flake itself resisted crushing when I tried to fold it by pinching. Another group I'm part of said to see how maleable it was. They said it might be Babbitt?

[pz619]

Keep us posted and good luck. I'm actually really interested in how the analysis comes back. Hopefully this isn't indicative of problems further down the line.

[amw896]

subd...Looks and sounds like aluminum which could be caused by oil starvation while you were tracking. Are you tuned and what oil are you running?

I would bring to a trusted shop and get uoa done in the meantime.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by amw896

subd...Looks and sounds like aluminum which could be caused by oil starvation while you were tracking. Are you tuned and what oil are you running?

I would bring to a trusted shop and get uoa done in the meantime.

Uoa?

I am no metallurgist, but my gut instinct with the color, rigidity, and non magnetic properties would be aluminum.

Does anyone know what all the wear components are and what they should be made out of for this engine? That way if I send the shavings in to get tested I have a ball park range of what they should be testing for.

Whatever the dealership puts in it. I just started doing my own oil changes in between dealership changes. I use liqui moly full synthetic 5w30.

Just a thought. Has anyone brought oil they would like to use to the dealership and requested that they use that for the oil change?

[amw896]

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

Uoa?

I am no metallurgist, but my gut instinct with the color, rigidity, and non magnetic properties would be aluminum.

Does anyone know what all the wear components are and what they should be made out of for this engine? That way if I send the shavings in to get tested I have a ball park range of what they should be testing for.

Whatever the dealership puts in it. I just started doing my own oil changes in between dealership changes. I use liqui moly full synthetic 5w30.

Just a thought. Has anyone brought oil they would like to use to the dealership and requested that they use that for the oil change?

sorry, used oil analysis is uoa. Keep us posted on what the shop says. Did you notice anything weird on the track? Big swings in oil pressure or temperature?

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by amw896

sorry, used oil analysis is uoa. Keep us posted on what the shop says. Did you notice anything weird on the track? Big swings in oil pressure or temperature?

I did not, but to be honest I wasn't looking very closely at those numbers. I remember checking out temp in a couple logs and immediately afterwards and it was just about what it is on the street.

I was paying closer attention to meth flow, timing, boost, fuel etc. Also I remember looking at transmission temp and thinking it was normal.


Car ran beautifully on the track and still feels like it runs strong and smooth. my buddy running his c7 went into limp mode a couple times. He was driving harder than me though.

These laps we're not timed and I was probably only driving 8/10. Also a beginner so I definitely wasn't pushing the car very hard.

[K8_M235i]

I'm on the Apex fb page too. I saw your post on there. Good luck! Blackstone should help figure out what's going on.

[amw896]

Damn, very weird. I hope it all works out for you man. Please keep us posted. I'm kind of curious about the oil situation as I am running the exact same fluid. I just put it in. Liqui Moly 5w-30 special tec LL. It is LL01 so I thought I would try it.

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

I did not, but to be honest I wasn't looking very closely at those numbers. I remember checking out temp in a couple logs and immediately afterwards and it was just about what it is on the street.

I was paying closer attention to meth flow, timing, boost, fuel etc. Also I remember looking at transmission temp and thinking it was normal.


Car ran beautifully on the track and still feels like it runs strong and smooth. my buddy running his c7 went into limp mode a couple times. He was driving harder than me though.

These laps we're not timed and I was probably only driving 8/10. Also a beginner so I definitely wasn't pushing the car very hard.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

Yes, I just ordered my test kit from Blackstone now. And it was a new oil pan. Also the m235i has an oil filter housing. You just pull the actual filter out when you swap it. There were some shavings in there as well.

Good to know. I still haven't done my own oil change in the car.

[Dylan86]

Hope to hear what the analysis outcome is.. I haven't seen this on my personal "in between" intervals, currently at 42k kms, but will keep a keen eye out for sure!

D

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Hope to hear what the analysis outcome is.. I haven't seen this on my personal "in between" intervals, currently at 42k kms, but will keep a keen eye out for sure!

D

Shipped out the two oil samples today and sent the oil filter to an oil filter specialist. Now we play the waiting game.

I'll keep you guys informed. I was pretty surprised to see the shavings myself. There are plenty of guys running stage 1, stage 2, and stage 3 turbos out there making way more power without issue.

[mdputnam]

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

And it was a new oil pan.

Who installed the new oil pan? How long did the new oil pan sit out on the shop floor next to the work bench vice collecting who know what shavings? Just saying there may be other explanations. I don't think it's time to press the panic button just yet. Also, you'll want to do more than one oil analysis. I have one done once a year on my track car (an RX-7). The analytical results vary (noisy data), but the long term trends are the most useful.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by mdputnam

Who installed the new oil pan? How long did the new oil pan sit out on the shop floor next to the work bench vice collecting who know what shavings? Just saying there may be other explanations. I don't think it's time to press the panic button just yet. Also, you'll want to do more than one oil analysis. I have one done once a year on my track car (an RX-7). The analytical results vary (noisy data), but the long term trends are the most useful.

I should have clarified. The dirty oil catch pan that I used was new. It wasn't contaminated with a pervious oil change.

And yes. I am going to start to do these with every change from now on. I haven't hit the panic button yet, just the half panic button haha.

Here's my optimistic theory. Some shavings from the original break in we're not completely flushed out. I did my only 3 hpde events between 20,000 min and 30,000 mile changes. This was the 30,000 change. The 3 hpde events stirred some existing metals up from the original break in which is why I'm seeing them in the filter. Maybe the engine broke in a little more during the hpde events and added some additional shavings.

My pesismistic theory - the engine is effed.


Does anyone know of other testing I could do? Look at cylinder head and walls through spark plugs with a boroscope? Boroscope in the throttle body? I'm pretty decent with mechanical work, I probably won't be pulling the engine apart myself though.

[Dylan86]

Based on the colour "bronze" on one of those bits, there's a chance it's some bearing material, either main or rod.. When I used to have engines built/bored/etc I used to get metal for a few oil changes, which is why we do them so frequently, when new. But if that can be confirmed as bearing material by Blackstone, then you may be able to fight for a new engine. Or have BMW guarantee, in writing, that if something happens, relating to the bearing material found, within how ever much time you can squeeze out of them, that they will take care of you out of warranty, if it decides to let go later on in life.

I'd say beat on it harder now, than ever before, lol. If it doesn't blow at your next track day, or through some strong highway pulls, it should weather the missing material, long term..

Yea you can definitely use a boroscope to see if it's within the cylinder, but I doubt it. Maybe cam material, existing machining bits that finally became dislodged in the oil return channels, coolers etc. It could be so many things man, suck to have to guess...

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Based on the colour "bronze" on one of those bits, there's a chance it's some bearing material, either main or rod.. When I used to have engines built/bored/etc I used to get metal for a few oil changes, which is why we do them so frequently, when new. But if that can be confirmed as bearing material by Blackstone, then you may be able to fight for a new engine. Or have BMW guarantee, in writing, that if something happens, relating to the bearing material found, within how ever much time you can squeeze out of them, that they will take care of you out of warranty, if it decides to let go later on in life..

I think that's just the lighting. I think the few pieces that I checked were all silver.

If it were bronze bearing material is that something that could be replaced at a reasonable cost before it explodes? I know for certain items, once they self terminated they may take out the rest of the engine e with it.

Are there some components that would be worth replacing? Or are all the parts/labor so expensive that it's worth getting a used engine. I know this probably depends on what part needs replacing, but the general feeling is that they are all expensive.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

I did my only 3 hpde events between 20,000 min and 30,000 mile changes. This was the 30,000 change.

I wouldn't go 3 track days without at least one oil change between them. No matter the miles.

If I've tracked the car I do an oil change before every other track day or cut my miles on the oil in half. Whichever comes first.

Been doing that for 15 years and never had an issue with any of my cars. I quit tracking the m235i after 2 track days (track days were just used to setup the car and validate my build). Don't plan on tracking anymore unless I get a dedicated track car. Getting more cautious with age

[jmwilson125]

Quick update. I just got back from vacation, but Blackstone results showed no issues. Filter analysis showed no issues.

I still need to call the lab for a more detailed answer. I just listened to a quick voicemail telling me it looked good.

I'll post results here when I get a chance.

[jmwilson125]

Blackstone analysis attachments are here.