[Ramos]

Team dynamics also comes in 38 ET, is that better? Or would that get you too close to the fender?

Thanks

[Chris in Japan]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Team dynamics also comes in 38 ET, is that better? Or would that get you too close to the fender?

Thanks

That would depend on the tire you are running.
My setup with 255/40 ns2r's requires 2deg negative camber at all corners and is still at tight fit on the fender side with et40.
You may be able to get away with et38 if running a narrow 245 tires, but I think you may have rubbing with an r comp or ultimate performance street tire in 245 on stock suspension.

[timsev]

OZ Allegerrita and OZ Ultraleggera come in 17x8 et40. You have to look under E36 M3 sizes to find them.

[Ramos]

I actually have a set of 17x8 wheels that I ran of my now sold e36 M3. Problem is I'm not sure what the ET is on those.
I might have to test fit them. It would be cool if I could use them as on the M235

[Béhème]

Originally Posted by timsev

First track outing went well. The tires held up better than I thought they would considering I'm fairly aggressive with my driving. The car is well balanced and will push if you're too hot and the back end is easily controllable with the throttle. A little tap of the brake and quick throttle input can get the thing drifting. Basically, normal BMW handling that you would expect.

It's not an M car, but it's still a fun car on the track. It desperately needs a LSD since you can feel the inner rear wheel lurching and spinning for traction on slow exits and big sweepers. The car feels a little heavy but its better than the E82/E90 generation by leaps and bounds. I'd say the M2 will be stellar based on this initial outing in the "regular" version.

The electric steering feels good too at speed. I thought it would be too light but once you are at speed combined with the weight of the car, it feels like any other BMW. Brakes were amazing. I've always used old BMW slide calipers so this is my first set of Brembos and there was no fade on stock pads and no vibrations. Really, really good brakes.

Overall, the tire/wheel combo did great. I don't think this car needs as much camber as many would think. I did rotate front to back halfway to preserve the tires but I was surprised at how well they held up and distributed the load across the face of the tread. When they get too hot, they get noisy, which is good. You can feel them getting to the edge and can back off easily. Overall I was really impressed and would buy the same setup again. Oh, if anyone cares, I'm an instructor and it was around 93'F yesterday to give you an idea of the workout they got.

Let me know if you have any questions. Sorry about the lengthy review, there isn't a "track" section so I thought you guys might appreciate this more than the general population.

Hi timsev,

Could you please tell me what tire pressures you were running ?

Based on your experience, and feedback from other sources, I went with the exact same setup as yours for my M235.

I'll be lapping with it soon (I've ordered Pagid RS 29 pads).

Pierre

[timsev]

Went to the track again yesterday. I was running around 44 hot, BUT the track I was at is notorious for wearing tire edges so my main focus was tire preservation and not ultimate grip. They felt great at that pressure and held up very well in 95f heat and 100% humidity.

For max grip, I have found 40psi hot to be about right if you are willing to sacrifice a little treadlife.

[Béhème]

Thanks Lieutenant,

40 PSI hot all around is interesting as I would of thought that you would of used tire pressure to simulate stagger to some degree.

I therefore assume that F/R stagger is not all that important with this car for general handling as the car is neutral enough with a square set up.

I guess the only advantage of a larger contact patch in the rear is corner exit traction.....An LSD is on my X-mas gift list for my car - I hope it's nice to me from now till then!!!!!

[timsev]

You got it. When the car is perfectly balance f/r, and the tires are the same size f/r, you want the hot pressures to be the same on all four corners. Cold pressures will be different on all four tires depending on the track, but hot pressures are the ones that matter.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by timsev

17 inchers are much lighter, less expensive, and tires are much less expensive as well. No brainer really.

Exactly. The wheel is usually the heavier part of the wheel/tire combo. Bigger wheels usually means more unsprung weight, because aluminum alloy is heavier than rubber. And more unsprung weight can mean slower lap times and/or less sporty feel.

I'm also wondering if adding spacers just for "stance" might also hurt handling. The OE wheel offset was designed for optimal handling, and spacers change the effective wheel offset. Wouldn't want to screw up the car's roll center and/or braking toe-in etc.

[rich8566]

I bought the exact same Kosei wheels for my winter setup. They save 8 pounds per corner compared to the stock setup. I see you reported on some track days. I'm now shopping for track tires to use with the 17x8 ET42 Kosei wheels. Someone else told me the widest I could/should go is 235s. Should I go with the 245s like you did? Are you still happy with the setup?

[Béhème]

Originally Posted by rich8566

I bought the exact same Kosei wheels for my winter setup. They save 8 pounds per corner compared to the stock setup. I see you reported on some track days. I'm now shopping for track tires to use with the 17x8 ET42 Kosei wheels. Someone else told me the widest I could/should go is 235s. Should I go with the 245s like you did? Are you still happy with the setup?

All I know is that the 245/40/17 Hankook R-S3 fit perfectly, and are as close as you can get to a R-compound tire.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Béhème

All I know is that the 245/40/17 Hankook R-S3 fit perfectly, and are as close as you can get to a R-compound tire.

only issue with those tires is that they are directional, so you can't rotate side to side...

so maybe http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....cleSearch=true

or

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....cleSearch=true

might be better options

[rhinothatflies]

just picked up a square setup kosei k4rs 17x8 et42 wrapped in dunlop 4ds for winter. installing them in a couple days. hoping to get them powder coated matte black =D.

question: what are people's reasons for not using them year round as opposed to track/winter only?

finally. i have the THP. stock staggered 18 inchers with michelin PSSs. anyone know the weights and offsets of the front/rear wheels for the 2015 228i? thanks.

[Béhème]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

only issue with those tires is that they are directional, so you can't rotate side to side...

so maybe http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....cleSearch=true

or

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....cleSearch=true

might be better options

Have you personally tracked these tires regularly, or do you have first hand information form experienced drivers who have?

[pikcachu]

no... just found those on the surveys from tirerack

[Béhème]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

no... just found those on the surveys from tirerack

With regards to Tirerack, they have an interesting comment with regards to the Hankook R-S3 (it explains why it's a near R-compound tire):

''During 2012, Hankook Tire changed the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Treadwear rating of their Ventus R-S3 Z222 Extreme Performance Summer tire.

UTQG ratings for Treadwear, Traction and Temperature are based on tests conducted by tire manufacturers and reported to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). These regulations allow tire manufacturers to under-rate their tires’ capabilities, but prohibit over-rating them. UTQG ratings are required to be branded on tire sidewalls and printed on their labels.

When the Ventus R-S3 Z222 was introduced in spring of 2009, Hankook assigned the 140 Treadwear rating to match the UTQG Treadwear rating required by existing competition rules. However subsequent Hankook wear data revealed the tire line provided equivalent wear to its predecessor (Ventus R-S2) and earned the same 200 Treadwear rating. This has also been supported by our survey results and customer feedback that indicate Ventus R-S3 Z222 tires provide equivalent wear to other tires already featuring similar UTQG Treadwear ratings.

With some competition rules now requiring higher UTQG Treadwear ratings, Hankook decided it was time to officially change the Ventus R-S3 Z222 line’s rating to accurately reflect its capabilities.

Since 140- and 200-Treadwear rated tires are available*, both currently appear on NHTSA’s safercar.gov website for the Ventus R-S3 Z222 line.

No changes were made to tire compound or construction, so all Ventus R-S3 Z222 tire sizes continue to use the same by-size Hankook S-Code (part number). Both 140- and 200-Treadwear-rated tires are compatible with each other when put into service as singles, pairs... ''

[Kgolf31]

When looking at high performance tires, only pay attention to Hankook RS3v2s, Dunlop Z2s (and now the Z2 Star Specs) and BFG Rivals. All others can be ignored.

[Ramos]

So about to pull the trigger on the team dynamics wheels in 17x8 ET 40 along with some Hankook RS3's in 245-40-17 when I peeked at the tirerack and realized that our stock Michelin super sports are not that expensive at $778 per set.

Now on my E90 335i, running the stock run flats on track was never an option (they were way too expensive to replace at almost 400 bucks per tire)

Apart from the extra grip and rotation ability of a dedicated square track wheel setup, is it really worth it financially given that our super sports aren't all that expensive?

[pikcachu]

well you get less understeer also from the square setup....

you will kill the front PSS quite fast so then you end up with tire left on the rear but all gone in the front.... and as you said you can't rotate front to back either with staggered

[Ramos]

Yes I get the benefit on track, but is there a financial $ benefit over time ? I could replace the SS every couple of track weekends and save myself the cost / hassle of buying the track wheels and changing back and forth.

I only do 2-3 weekends per year and the car is a lease

[pikcachu]

i guess it depends how long you will have the car and how many times per year you will track it.....

also you can also swap the wheels yourself but you will have to go to a shop to have the tires replaces also probably $25/tire for mount and balance

[rich8566]

I did about 10 track days last year with my M235i. I love the car on the track and although I love the grip of the PSS's, they do wear the fronts more than the rear. That's why I'm going with a square setup with the Kosei's this coming season.