[Cope]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Touché. Arguably, the M1 was the prototype M-car, however. It's the greatest example of an M-car ever made, but it was also the first. BMW hadn't arrived at the concept of an S-engine yet.

Also, the M88, while not given an S-designation, was exclusive to M-cars. If the engine were built today, it would undoubtedly be prefixed with an S.

If you look over that Wikipedia article you'd see they used M88s in the 745i in South Africa, not exactly M-car exclusive. I know I'm being pedantic but it's all to point out that M cars are not defined by their engine. Besides if they were we'd all be lamenting the fact all these modern M cars are turbo charged (which I'm sure some of you do).

The M2 stands to be one of the most unapologetic cars BMW has released in recent memory. I feel like they're hoping you'll find fault in it so that they can get you behind the wheel of an M3/4.

[Gibson6594]

The M division is fine with the N. I am fine with the N. I know there are business reasons behind the decision, but as long as the M2 is the monster I expect it to be, I don't care.

[Gonven]

Originally Posted by swagon

lulz, S engine debate again.

So true omg

[Adem1534]

If it's an incredible engine, I don't care whether it has a damn N or an S or an X, Y, A, B, I don't give a crap.

It's going to be a modified N55, I'm sure it will suit the car great. They're going to modify it so it works well with their goal.

All I see are a bunch of self justifying M3/4 owners trying to convince themselves that the M2 is just a sub par car to keep themselves happy.

[535DMSport]

Noodles... don't noodles..
S55, no S55....
You guys are too concerned about what was and what will be

[Colinv6]

I'm not in the self justifying M3 owners camp, as you will know my heart was set on this car for well over a year and I was mega excited for it to arrive.

Slowly as the Info leaked out bit by bit, engine, colour choices, black interior only etc I realised more and more that it wasn't for me personally! If I buy a car that isn't to my exact want in terms of spec, I'll have sold it within a year cause it's just not perfect.

The M2 will be a great car, but for me.. The M3 is a perfect one.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I'm a big fan of the potential this car has. I don't know why there's so much hate.

Some owners think BMW 'owes' them. I heard the same BS when potential Cayman buyers were screaming about the price/hp. Like Porsche would put a 911 engine in a Cayman. It's a business not a fking charity for the fanboys.

[OrangeCrush]

I wouldn't judge the sound of the M2 by this video. If you've ever heard an N55 with an exhaust IRL it sounds great. I think it sounds better than the 1M and I think that sounds pretty good also.

[raysspl]

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by raysspl

LOL...what does that mean?

[Amgeater2]

Originally Posted by qballis

Sure, detuned of course.

Wow sure why not add carbon ceramic brakes, adaptive suspension... @ a 55k price lol u guys r funny

[KGB_123_99]

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you are buying an M car, you shouldn't have to get M Performance accessories to make it sound and drive like a proper M car. That is just BS.

Honestly, CLA 45 sounds better with only 4 cylinders, sorry. I am sure the M2 will drive much better though, so no argument there. Still, BMW seems to be lacking behind in sound engineering compared to Benz.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you are buying an M car, you shouldn't have to get M Performance accessories to make it sound and drive like a proper M car. That is just BS.

Honestly, CLA 45 sounds better with only 4 cylinders, sorry. I am sure the M2 will drive much better though, so no argument there. Still, BMW seems to be lacking behind in sound engineering compared to Benz.

This is just a guess but the stock M2 will probably sound as good if not better than a135/235 with a performance exhaust...which already sounds better than the CLA 45, sorry.

[W///]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you are buying an M car, you shouldn't have to get M Performance accessories to make it sound and drive like a proper M car. That is just BS.

Honestly, CLA 45 sounds better with only 4 cylinders, sorry. I am sure the M2 will drive much better though, so no argument there. Still, BMW seems to be lacking behind in sound engineering compared to Benz.

I'm pretty sure you're in the minority on that one

[theriz]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I wouldn't judge the sound of the M2 by this video. If you've ever heard an N55 with an exhaust IRL it sounds great. I think it sounds better than the 1M and I think that sounds pretty good also.

Agreed.

Hard part for me is having another N55 (already had a 335i). Even after having tune, downpipe and full exhaust it still felt slow. After having an M3 it's gonna be tough.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Some owners think BMW 'owes' them. I heard the same BS when potential Cayman buyers were screaming about the price/hp. Like Porsche would put a 911 engine in a Cayman. It's a business not a fking charity for the fanboys.

So, if someone doesn't like an aspect of the m2, or that certain items are left off, it means that they think Bmw owes them something?

I don't follow that logic.

People can and have expressed disappointment about the news. I am also disappointed about some things being left off, and beleive the price needs to be low as a result in order for the car to sell

And for the record, I think the theory that Bmw doesn't want the m2 to sell in order to forge buyers to the m3 is crazy and makes no sense.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

Honestly, CLA 45 sounds better with only 4 cylinders, sorry. I am sure the M2 will drive much better though, so no argument there. Still, BMW seems to be lacking behind in sound engineering compared to Benz.

4cyl turbos don't have any "depth" whatsoever to their sound. Nowadays, exhaust sounds are heavily enhanced that make them louder and have those farts and crackles and pops and bangs and shit. The engines itself sound somewhat uninteresting, boring. I'm not saying the N55 sounds like a CSL S54 but it is miles better. It's got that nice rich howl if you know what I mean.

In my opinion, *almost* all stock turbo cars sound like shit on video fly-bys. It's just all "whooosh."

However, I agree that AMG makes some great sounding cars - their V8 AMG's sound damn good. Better than BMW's V8 equivalents.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

So, if someone doesn't like an aspect of the m2, or that certain items are left off, it means that they think Bmw owes them something?

I don't follow that logic.

People can and have expressed disappointment about the news. I am also disappointed about some things being left off, and beleive the price needs to be low as a result in order for the car to sell

And for the record, I think the theory that Bmw doesn't want the m2 to sell in order to forge buyers to the m3 is crazy and makes no sense.

You have to think about the business reason for BMW even green lighting the M2. The consensus has been as an "entry" model to the M series (or even BMW) targeting young professionals who can't quite drop the money for an M3/M4....yet.

They absolutely don't want the average M3/M4 buyer to "step down" to the M2. Why not? The profit margins are most definitely higher on the M3 and would be horrible on a "mini M4" with S motor, CF, etc.... unless it was priced in the M3/M4 range. So what do they do to discourage this? Throw in a tuned regular BMW group engine, leave out the carbon fiber parts, etc....but still make it a great performance car for its price. They proved that this type of car will most definitely sell quite well.

If you want that mini M4, you'll probably have to wait for the CSL version that has been hinted at. The PURPOSE of that car existing would be to give you a mini M4...for probably the price of an M4.

[FrankiE90]

N54 really nice on 1m.
Even though not an Sxx engine.
Body and suspension.
2m following that paradigm.
Last horrah for the n55.

S55 in a smaller chassis would be amazing though.
I'm sure b58 will be in 2m 2019.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Cope

If you look over that Wikipedia article you'd see they used M88s in the 745i in South Africa, not exactly M-car exclusive. I know I'm being pedantic but it's all to point out that M cars are not defined by their engine. Besides if they were we'd all be lamenting the fact all these modern M cars are turbo charged (which I'm sure some of you do).

The M2 stands to be one of the most unapologetic cars BMW has released in recent memory. I feel like they're hoping you'll find fault in it so that they can get you behind the wheel of an M3/4.

You are literally bending over backward to miss the point. This isn't a history debate. Finding edge cases doesn't refute my point: M-cars are made better by having an S-engine. The lack of an S-engine in the M2 is not a good thing.

You're 100% correct that M-cars are not defined by their engine... alone. An M-car is defined by the total package. BMW M GmbH are known for the ability to take standard BMW rolling stock and turn it in to something exceptional.

The S14 was, in a lot of ways, unremarkable. On paper, it wasn't particularly powerful, but there's something special about the engine. When you drive an E30, you recognize that everything is in balance. The engine remains special though, and it's a major contributor to what makes the E30 so great. Running the S14 out to redline is a pleasure. Running an N54/N55 out to redline is not.

Like I said, this isn't black and white. The absence of an S-motor won't make the M2 a bad car, but it will make it less good than it could have been. What's the first thing that comes up when people talk about the US market E36 M3? The engine. An otherwise fantastic car, with a better than average engine. Not a fantastic engine. Not an engine that you'll remember forever. A pretty good engine.

That's not what I want for the M2.

Originally Posted by Cope

The M2 stands to be one of the most unapologetic cars BMW has released in recent memory.

No way. Sorry. Not even close. You want to see unapologetic, look at the CTR. That car sacrifices everything at the alter of performance. It apologizes for nothing.

Does giving up a few options make the M2 a better performance car? Puh-leeeeze. It doesn't. It just makes it cheaper for BMW to produce. I'm fine with that. I'm not amongst the hoard that is insisting on carbon fiber and bespoke seats. I'd rather the money be spent on the essentials: chassis, lightness, engine. Unfortunately, BMW have short changed us on the last item.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

If it's an incredible engine, I don't care whether it has a damn N or an S or an X, Y, A, B, I don't give a crap.

It's going to be a modified N55, I'm sure it will suit the car great. They're going to modify it so it works well with their goal.

All I see are a bunch of self justifying M3/4 owners trying to convince themselves that the M2 is just a sub par car to keep themselves happy.

I remember seeing a recent Bimmerpost post that went something like this:

"It's not a true M car unless it has twin turbos..."

Just LOL.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

If it's an incredible engine, I don't care whether it has a damn N or an S or an X, Y, A, B, I don't give a crap.

It's going to be a modified N55, I'm sure it will suit the car great. They're going to modify it so it works well with their goal.

All I see are a bunch of self justifying M3/4 owners trying to convince themselves that the M2 is just a sub par car to keep themselves happy.

That last line is a low blow. Every one of my arguments comes from a desire to see the M2 become the best M-car BMW have ever made. It has nothing to do with my current car choice.

If you think the N55 in your M235i is incredible, then you'll definitely be satisfied by the N55B30T0. However, if you've spent time in other M-cars, you'll know just how incredible an engine can be. That's a difficult backslide to swallow for someone considering the M2, and like Kenny, I don't believe all this crap about BMW limiting the M2 in order to push buyers in to the M3/4.

I believe it boils down to economics:

1) Leipzig is already very busy producing other profitable cars, so M2 sales numbers will be limited.

2) BMW may not be confident in the overall demand for the M2, and therefore didn't want to sink the development cost in to an S-motor for the M2.

3) The S55 would have pushed the price point too high for the car to fit their product line-up target prices.

I just wish they had taken a longer view. Develop an S20 and use that engine in the forthcoming X4 M and friends!