[MR.]

The last few days I have started to question all the information that has been released so far. Last night I sad down and read most of the latest news and topics on this forum about the new BMW M2 Coupe we are all waiting for so desperately.

I loved the people asking for sunroofs, parking sensors at the front and even a convertible version of the M2. They clearly do not have a clue what the M2 is or what it will be.

I felt that I should start to ask around at dealerships across Europe and cross check information. In the end after reading all the information something did not tick the correct boxes.

After a few days of hearing information from different sides, some things are falling into the right order now. And looking at what we have seen so far being shared on this forum I felt like writing this story.

The overall feeling I have is that we are looking at a BMW 1M package in a newly updated jacket, which in my opinion is what I wanted and we should all cheer about. The M4 is too big... It feels like a mini-M5. I want a E46 M3 sized power coupe with better handling. It needs to be in balance, like the 1M was and is. A balance between power and handling. The current M4 feels like a muscle car (sorry my intention is not to upset owners here), but that is what I felt after driving it for four weeks.

So what are I my initial thoughts...

1. The spec list shared in the past days looks real and features not much options, similar to the 1M.
2. Four colors, similar to the 1M
3. Interior set up (one type of seats and contrasting stitching) & color of stitching fits the communication color which will be LBB, similar to the 1M
4. Performance wise a bit more than the 1M, but with the boost function on the torque. Focus on handling and the right balance between power and handling, similar to the 1M.
5. Mixing the best from the M3/M4 range and the 2-Series Coupe, similar to the 1M.
6. Minimizing options to keep the weight down, focus on handling and sheer driving pleasure like the 1M

Information I gathered so far by simply searching and connecting dots...

1. The car will NOT be released at IAA.
Reason why? Quite simple... They have a tonne of other cars to show (public and European debuts of X1, 7-Series, 3-Series LCI, etc) and the M4 GTS is first at Pebble Beach (maybe it is also at IAA)! Two M releases to close to each other or even at one show is not feasible. So it is definitely not IAA, what can it be? Any guesses?

2. The first deliveries start in the Spring
People on the forum here have said deliveries start in the Spring. That would mean after the 20th of March. That is late March, early April. I got a production slot offered for March, but I have been told that could well be a bit later. So I tend to believe that early deliveries (demo cars and the happy few) might get the car in March and that the rest will get their car when production is full up and running in the Spring. What about this production date in the BMW system saying they would start in November? False info, dummy content in the computer, mistake by BMW, who knows, but it feels like a failure. It does not fit with what I heard and read.

3. Price tag
The 1M starting price was around 50-51 EUR in Germany. Looking at the competitors in the market space, like A45 and RS3, pricing for the new M2 might be slightly higher depending if your country sells fully specced cars or not. What I have seen so far is that certain countries offer fully specced M cars with not much room to remove or add options from the car, and other countries offer basic cars where you can add whatever you want. It really depends on your country. European countries more east offer more basic cars simply because the M car is already expensive in a base set up and they want to have the option to sell. Countries more west offer fully set up cars at a high price and with a ridiculous high premium.

So now let's discuss the dots even further. So what are we looking at? I feel we are looking at BMW 1M evolution in a new jacket and with even more improved handling and driving capabilities. I would just take every single aspect from the 1M, improve it and you have the M2. Just follow every single part of the 1M strategy and copy it to the M2. Of course there will be minor differences like the availability of an automatic gearbox, but I feel that overall the setup will be similar. It is a common practice with car brands lately. They take what worked before, improve it slightly and sell it in a new package. The M2 will not be any different in the general sense.

If we keep this in the back of our minds then the final release whenever it will be the next few months will not be such a downfall for some of you. Just see it as the next 1M and all that comes with it. At my side I would love to have a specific individual color, but it is not possible, so I will wrap it if I want to. Surround cameras would help me a lot on the on ramp in my garage, but it is not there I will drive up backwards. I can deal with... because I know that every corner I take with the M2 will be the ultimate M fest.

Do you feel the same way about this or am I wrong? If you have any more information please feel free to add it here and we come up with one story that kills all the rumors.

[LinkF1]

Great post and I tend to agree. Those who want a 2015 1M are going to get almost exactly what they want. Those that are looking for a mini-M4 are going to be disappointed in many ways. My father has an E46 M3, I have a 135i, I want a car that has the torque of the 135 and the character of the E46. That car was the 1M, but I was 2 years late to that party, I am making sure I am not late to this second iteration.

[jzmundy]

I think you hit the nail on the head, and a "new" 1M vs. an M3/4 is an internal struggle I'm still dealing with myself - a huge reason why I'm so anxious to see this car. I wish you were wrong about its absence at IAA, but I have a feeling we won't be seeing it there...

[W///]

Refreshing to see a post from someone that understands the point of an M2.

I'm much more interested in a 1M version 2.0 (thus why it's called Pyrat 2) than a mini-M4 to be honest. A very small difference, but one that matters to me.

[chmura]

Awesome. That is how I want the M2 to be a slightly upgraded continuation version of the 1M!

You did not comment on the availability of the M2. Will it be as limited as the 1M? Will we see slightly more here stateside. Some people have commented that the plant that the M2 will be built at cannot handle to produce normal quantities of the M2.

[MR.]

chmura it is a open question I still have, and I have asked around on what to expect. The production availability is an interesting one.

I do not see a limited number like the 1M in front of me. I have a feeling we will move into a Cayman GT4 type of set up where there is not a limited number as a whole, but a yearly quota per country.

The M2 will been squeezed in between the current 1-Series and 2-Series, and with those elderly vans (aka Active Tourer mobiles) and the X1 production coming from the same plant (correct me if I am wrong). I feel BMW - like Porsche - will minimize the amount of M2's to a certain number per month or per year and per country.

I am not sure, but I have certain feeling we might be heading that way. If this is the case, pricing and premiums will go up, and waiting lists will be long. Some people suggested this already on the forum, and it means that getting a car allows for a good relationship with your dealer. He might move you up the list.

Of course, this is all speculation, I am still waiting for some kind of information that could suggest this.

MR

[W///]

Originally Posted by chmura

Awesome. That is how I want the M2 to be a slightly upgraded continuation version of the 1M!

You did not comment on the availability of the M2. Will it be as limited as the 1M? Will we see slightly more here stateside. Some people have commented that the plant that the M2 will be built at cannot handle to produce normal quantities of the M2.

Absolutely won't be as limited as the 1M. But it'll definitely rarer than the M3/4. The 2 series is a very niche car, especially because it's not available in sedan form. I almost never see them around here.

I expect the same for the M2. 3 year production run means there will be way more than the 1M, but it's not a car I expect to see all over the dealership lots.

[jc9elfer]

Great post. Right on line with my ideas. I was not a fan of the 1 series, but the slight changes to the 2 series look great. I fell in love with the M235i, but feel the need to wait for the real thing. Agree, the M4 is too big for my liking, but a great car for sure.

I checked in with my dealership again yesterday, he assure me I am number 4 on the list

[JTO24]

Great post.. I'm very eager to see this car. When I showed my dad my car and let him drive it he was much more impressed with the gizmos and technology rather than the performance. He even preferred all settings in efficient/comfort. Meanwhile I keep it in manual/sport (+) for most if not every driving occasion lol it made me realize all this tech/creature comforts is lost on me. Is it nice? Sure. Do I use it enough to be worthwhile? Not really. Even HUD is meh and I could live without it.

The car handles very well and it's ridiculously quick. I'm slowly working on controlled drifts etc to feel out the cars limits but, to me, it's not as forgiving as the e92 m3 I had. You need to pay very close attention. I also love the LED headlights.

My complaints are that I feel too isolated and that the car is just too big. I have DCT for the first time and it's brilliant engineering and I love how fast it shifts but it is a little sterile for me. I'd probably be happier with 6mt again.

So a smaller, 6mt M2 with some gizmos like nav and heated seats is very appealing to me. Enough tech to keep it interesting but the real focus is on performance and nimble-ness.

[Bamowe]

I'am loving your post MR.. I've done M2 research for the last two years and every line, every word of your post fits with my guesses and expectations.

Well done!


Especially this:

"The M4 is too big... It feels like a mini-M5. I want a E46 M3 sized power coupe with better handling. It needs to be in balance, like the 1M was and is. A balance between power and handling. The current M4 feels like a muscle car (sorry my intention is not to upset owners here), but that is what I felt after driving it for four weeks."

[fuddman]

Your analysis becomes suspect when you identify your sources for a future car as dealers.

As a far as the cars debut is concerned, Scott26 has said it will be either at the LA auto show or Tokyo Auto show. Despite sources who say otherwise, the mods on this forum have stuck to their guns and continue to prominently feature a thread with the lead in big letters saying Frankfurt. In any case, so what?
The biggee is production start date. I'm with the mods on this one - it remains November. With cars showing up in January.

[Bamowe]

Heard it multiple times from more than two guys who are involved in the "M2" process in the last week that January will be to close and production wont start this year ...

[W///]

Originally Posted by JTO24

Great post.. I'm very eager to see this car. When I showed my dad my car and let him drive it he was much more impressed with the gizmos and technology rather than the performance. He even preferred all settings in efficient/comfort. Meanwhile I keep it in manual/sport (+) for most if not every driving occasion lol it made me realize all this tech/creature comforts is lost on me. Is it nice? Sure. Do I use it enough to be worthwhile? Not really. Even HUD is meh and I could live without it.

The car handles very well and it's ridiculously quick. I'm slowly working on controlled drifts etc to feel out the cars limits but, to me, it's not as forgiving as the e92 m3 I had. You need to pay very close attention. I also love the LED headlights.

My complaints are that I feel too isolated and that the car is just too big. I have DCT for the first time and it's brilliant engineering and I love how fast it shifts but it is a little sterile for me. I'd probably be happier with 6mt again.

So a smaller, 6mt M2 with some gizmos like nav and heated seats is very appealing to me. Enough tech to keep it interesting but the real focus is on performance and nimble-ness.

I will say the 6MT does help the car feel like it's less isolated for sure. However, even with that transmission, it still felt like a mini-M5 (which is not necessarily a bad thing if that's what you are looking for), rather than a bigger M3 if that makes sense.

I also tried to like the DCT when I was deciding what E9x M3 to get. I rented one in Munich for the weekend and got bored with the transmission within about 3-4 hours.

[Denk]

I enjoyed my stripper e92, it had a sportier vibe than my current decked out e92 which has a more luxurious vibe. I really don't need all the goodies. I'm even leaning towards manual seats, I had ~3/4" more headroom with manual seats in the e92. Maybe that'll be the same case with the M2.

I think the 1M had overboost too.

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by Denk

I enjoyed my stripper e92, it had a sportier vibe than my current decked out e92 which has a more luxurious vibe. I really don't need all the goodies. I'm even leaning towards manual seats, I had ~3/4" more headroom with manual seats in the e92. Maybe that'll be the same case with the M2.

I think the 1M had overboost too.

Agreed! My e92 m3 had 6mt, manual seats and iDrive.. no other options and I loved it! My f80 has exec. and it's nice but almost too luxurious if that makes sense lol

[den525]

I agree with the OP but then again I think most people expected the car to be the "next 1m" already no?

I feel the car despite not a limited production, we'll still see a lack of them not because of lack of supply but a lack of demand.

It'll purely be for the enthusiasts, as it'll only be suitable for a very small demographic. I'm thinking either young professional without a family or a person who can afford a 2nd car. It's very boxter/Cayman category.

We're talking the very very top of the price range for this sort of cars. 2 doors coupe, basically two seats.

Currently driving a m235i, it's not expensive to me at all but I feel if I do upgrade it won't be a M2 as for the price it's borderline unnecessary maybe unjustifiable, with the M3/M4 they're more justifiable for not that much more in terms of price tag. For a small price you're getting a lot more.

But then again, not everyone wants "more"

I'm looking forward to it tho just to see how it drives hope it doesn't disappoint as there's big shoes to fill from the 1M and m235i!!

[Denk]

Originally Posted by JTO24

Agreed! My e92 m3 had 6mt, manual seats and iDrive.. no other options and I loved it! My f80 has exec. and it's nice but almost too luxurious if that makes sense lol

Absolutely, it's a psychological thing. The stripper just "felt" more fun, I think it was just the vibe it gave off. I'm more anal about my current m3 which is a little distracting. It's still a blast though. The girls do enjoy the heated seats more than me so there's that.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by fuddman

Your analysis becomes suspect when you identify your sources for a future car as dealers.

My sources are not only dealers, but mainly dealers... I have done more research, but hearing stories from 10 different directions connects the dots, and I can tell you it was a wonderful search and it is not over. Monday afternoon more, because I am going to my own dealer again.

MR

[nachob]

Originally Posted by MR.

The last few days I have started to question all the information that has been released so far. Last night I sad down and read most of the latest news and topics on this forum about the new BMW M2 Coupe we are all waiting for so desperately.

I loved the people asking for sunroofs, parking sensors at the front and even a convertible version of the M2. They clearly do not have a clue what the M2 is or what it will be.

I felt that I should start to ask around at dealerships across Europe and cross check information. In the end after reading all the information something did not tick the correct boxes.

After a few days of hearing information from different sides, some things are falling into the right order now. And looking at what we have seen so far being shared on this forum I felt like writing this story.

The overall feeling I have is that we are looking at a BMW 1M package in a newly updated jacket, which in my opinion is what I wanted and we should all cheer about. The M4 is too big... It feels like a mini-M5. I want a E46 M3 sized power coupe with better handling. It needs to be in balance, like the 1M was and is. A balance between power and handling. The current M4 feels like a muscle car (sorry my intention is not to upset owners here), but that is what I felt after driving it for four weeks.

So what are I my initial thoughts...

1. The spec list shared in the past days looks real and features not much options, similar to the 1M.
2. Four colors, similar to the 1M
3. Interior set up (one type of seats and contrasting stitching) & color of stitching fits the communication color which will be LBB, similar to the 1M
4. Performance wise a bit more than the 1M, but with the boost function on the torque. Focus on handling and the right balance between power and handling, similar to the 1M.
5. Mixing the best from the M3/M4 range and the 2-Series Coupe, similar to the 1M.
6. Minimizing options to keep the weight down, focus on handling and sheer driving pleasure like the 1M

Information I gathered so far by simply searching and connecting dots...

1. The car will NOT be released at IAA.
Reason why? Quite simple... They have a tonne of other cars to show (public and European debuts of X1, 7-Series, 3-Series LCI, etc) and the M4 GTS is first at Pebble Beach (maybe it is also at IAA)! Two M releases to close to each other or even at one show is not feasible. So it is definitely not IAA, what can it be? Any guesses?

2. The first deliveries start in the Spring
People on the forum here have said deliveries start in the Spring. That would mean after the 20th of March. That is late March, early April. I got a production slot offered for March, but I have been told that could well be a bit later. So I tend to believe that early deliveries (demo cars and the happy few) might get the car in March and that the rest will get their car when production is full up and running in the Spring. What about this production date in the BMW system saying they would start in November? False info, dummy content in the computer, mistake by BMW, who knows, but it feels like a failure. It does not fit with what I heard and read.

3. Price tag
The 1M starting price was around 50-51 EUR in Germany. Looking at the competitors in the market space, like A45 and RS3, pricing for the new M2 might be slightly higher depending if your country sells fully specced cars or not. What I have seen so far is that certain countries offer fully specced M cars with not much room to remove or add options from the car, and other countries offer basic cars where you can add whatever you want. It really depends on your country. European countries more east offer more basic cars simply because the M car is already expensive in a base set up and they want to have the option to sell. Countries more west offer fully set up cars at a high price and with a ridiculous high premium.

So now let's discuss the dots even further. So what are we looking at? I feel we are looking at BMW 1M evolution in a new jacket and with even more improved handling and driving capabilities. I would just take every single aspect from the 1M, improve it and you have the M2. Just follow every single part of the 1M strategy and copy it to the M2. Of course there will be minor differences like the availability of an automatic gearbox, but I feel that overall the setup will be similar. It is a common practice with car brands lately. They take what worked before, improve it slightly and sell it in a new package. The M2 will not be any different in the general sense.

If we keep this in the back of our minds then the final release whenever it will be the next few months will not be such a downfall for some of you. Just see it as the next 1M and all that comes with it. At my side I would love to have a specific individual color, but it is not possible, so I will wrap it if I want to. Surround cameras would help me a lot on the on ramp in my garage, but it is not there I will drive up backwards. I can deal with... because I know that every corner I take with the M2 will be the ultimate M fest.

Do you feel the same way about this or am I wrong? If you have any more information please feel free to add it here and we come up with one story that kills all the rumors.

I think on the surface yes, there are many similarities but they are sorta like comparing Woodstock Music Festival 1 with Woodstock 2. Two great events but one was not planned and became legendary. The second was better planned, probably just as fun but not quite the same.

BMW is trying to reproduce the magic and thankfully so because we need smaller car for some of us that prefer them.

For example LBB is the rollout color but I already saw it at Bimmerfest on an X6M. Valencia Orange was wholly new and initially only offered on the 1M.

The 1M came with air curtains which were developed for it to address the terrible aerodynamics after they flared the arches. All new BMWs have them now.

The 1M had a rauckous engine sound especially at cold-start that is an event and it does it without active sound foolery.

The 1M only came in a manual with no sunroof. While this is only one checkbox difference, it terms of carguyness, this is very significant. If you wanted one, you had to drive a manual. This is the last BMW ever offered in only a manual. The M2 will come in automatic too and it will be faster but the magic of the 1M is that it FELT fast and fun at any speed.

It also only came with a rather firm fixed suspension which again, if you wanted one, you wanted a firm suspension. There were no ECO or COMFORT buttons in the 1M which I'm sure will also come on the M2.
Based on how soft the M235i is, I think M2 will be softer again than the 1M too.

The 1M design team was forced to prioritize their priorities on the basics and a lot of work was left incomplete which added to it's charm. It needed more rear traction which is something that will be better on the M2 but then again it added to the bonkers character of the 1M.

I know many don't get this, but you could buy a 1M without idrive and the display on top of the dash. These rare strippers were a great option for those that want the focus of the cockpit to be driving only, not driving and infotainment. They were also lighter and the manual seats had a better, lower seating position than power seats. The M2 will already seem compromised to some with the mandatory iDrive and active sound combo.

The 1M was significantly lighter than the 135i despite having huge 19" wheels, bigger brakes and full-lock M differential. The M2, I fear will be lighter than M235i but that is so heavy already at over 3500 lbs.

I don't want to make a big deal about hydraulic steering because while I think it was better in the 1M than the new electrics I have driven so far, my old ZHP still has better feedback than the 1M in my opinion and there is a chance that the M2 electric might be better than M235i in the feedback department. It is already very precise, it just needs some more feedback.

Now where the M2 will be better I suspect is throttle response. The 1M had some lag which made throttle discipline important. The N55 has better throttle response. Another improvement should be the charge pipe which blows off the 1M in high-load situations. Also the base traction control was very intrusive and needed more work before they ran out of time. I am not sure about brakes though. I love the blue painted M calipers but not sure if they will be any better if the M2 is heavier. Also, I rather like the purposeful black no-M-logo M3 brakes. I like that look a little more than the excessive M stickers on the calipers.

So for many Woodstock 2 is better. There were more toilets, places to sleep, more security etc. The first one was a mess and you had to sleep in the mud and not shower for days. Different tastes but one is slightly more memorable already than the other. Not better, just more memorable in my humble opinion.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by nachob

I think on the surface yes, there are many similarities but they are sorta like comparing Woodstock Music Festival 1 with Woodstock 2. Two great events but one was not planned and became legendary. The second was better planned, probably just as fun but not quite the same.

BMW is trying to reproduce the magic and thankfully so because we need smaller car for some of us that prefer them.

For example LBB is the rollout color but I already saw it at Bimmerfest on an X6M. Valencia Orange was wholly new and initially only offered on the 1M.

The 1M came with air curtains which were developed for it to address the terrible aerodynamics after they flared the arches. All new BMWs have them now.

The 1M had a rauckous engine sound especially at cold-start that is an event and it does it without active sound foolery.

The 1M only came in a manual with no sunroof. While this is only one checkbox difference, it terms of carguyness, this is very significant. If you wanted one, you had to drive a manual. This is the last BMW ever offered in only a manual. The M2 will come in automatic too and it will be faster but the magic of the 1M is that it FELT fast and fun at any speed.

It also only came with a rather firm fixed suspension which again, if you wanted one, you wanted a firm suspension. There were no ECO or COMFORT buttons in the 1M which I'm sure will also come on the M2.
Based on how soft the M235i is, I think M2 will be softer again than the 1M too.

The 1M design team was forced to prioritize their priorities on the basics and a lot of work was left incomplete which added to it's charm. It needed more rear traction which is something that will be better on the M2 but then again it added to the bonkers character of the 1M.

I know many don't get this, but you could buy a 1M without idrive and the display on top of the dash. These rare strippers were a great option for those that want the focus of the cockpit to be driving only, not driving and infotainment. They were also lighter and the manual seats had a better, lower seating position than power seats. The M2 will already seem compromised to some with the mandatory iDrive and active sound combo.

The 1M was significantly lighter than the 135i despite having huge 19" wheels, bigger brakes and full-lock M differential. The M2, I fear will be lighter than M235i but that is so heavy already at over 3500 lbs.

I don't want to make a big deal about hydraulic steering because while I think it was better in the 1M than the new electrics I have driven so far, my old ZHP still has better feedback than the 1M in my opinion and there is a chance that the M2 electric might be better than M235i in the feedback department. It is already very precise, it just needs some more feedback.

Now where the M2 will be better I suspect is throttle response. The 1M had some lag which made throttle discipline important. The N55 has better throttle response. Another improvement should be the charge pipe which blows off the 1M in high-load situations. Also the base traction control was very intrusive and needed more work before they ran out of time. I am not sure about brakes though. I love the blue painted M calipers but not sure if they will be any better if the M2 is heavier. Also, I rather like the purposeful black no-M-logo M3 brakes. I like that look a little more than the excessive M stickers on the calipers.

So for many Woodstock 2 is better. There were more toilets, places to sleep, more security etc. The first one was a mess and you had to sleep in the mud and not shower for days. Different tastes but one is slightly more memorable already than the other. Not better, just more memorable in my humble opinion.

Great thread and superb post from nachob! Indeed, unplanned-unfinished-imperfect-unpredictable were the adjectives which made the 1M such a unique driving and owning experience. However, if you missed the Woodstock, the 2 was obligatory so should be the 1M version 2.0.

And there is always the hope that maybe for once it could be Terminator 2: The Judgement Day, which is arguably even better than the Terminator, "despite" all the planning, technology and budget it had over the original.

I can't wait to see a good double test of the 1M and M2, that's for sure.

[JustChris]

Hmm lot of love for the OP but it's just another thread stating the obvious and speculating late to the party? Also personally I don't see the issue with people asking if it will come in vert form, almost every other M car does now (except the X's) if we like it or not as does the non M 2 series platform it is based on?

There seems to be a huge sentiment of disrespect towards anyone wishing for something not available from the 1M. Nostalgia is great but time has moved on.

Not directly pointing this at you OP, nice post, but the levels of nostalgia building and criticism of anyone who dares to not have owned or driven the 1M is well, getting a little dull.

[MR.]

@M Car Chris

Unfortunately I do not have the time to follow it all, and after reading so much I was like no one is combining it all in one post. Never owned a 1M, but driven it enough to know that you need both next to each other. First this one, then the other... and maybe some historical stuff. You have to start your collection somewhere