[bradleyland]

Autoevolution has a really nice breakdown on why Autocar are wrong.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/40...-it-88043.html

The impression I've developed over the years is that Autocar are a bunch of headline trolling losers just looking for ad impressions rather than actual facts.

[W///]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Autoevolution has a really nice breakdown on why Autocar are wrong.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/40...-it-88043.html

The impression I've developed over the years is that Autocar are a bunch of headline trolling losers just looking for ad impressions rather than actual facts.

That is indeed a great article. And considering that one was posted in Fall 2014, I'm surprised I haven't seen it earlier. But he nails it on the head.

[ticamihai2003]

Didn't think autocar can afford to mess up like this but seems like bad journalism applies to car news as well.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by ticamihai2003

Didn't think autocar can afford to mess up like this but seems like bad journalism applies to car news as well.

Autocar has become notorious for playing fast and loose with rumors. I'm amazed that execs from any major manufacturers still talk to them. Their formula is: take a quote out of context, spin it in to "facts", circulate.

[Captain45]

I know this is still in a mule body but man, this is the most underwhelming, plain jane looking car I've seen in awhile. Looks like a car you'd see on a hertz rental lot.

If this is going to be a new M pedigree, just save the "spotted" shots for when its in its final skin.

[jzmundy]

Originally Posted by Captain45

I know this is still in a mule body but man, this is the most underwhelming, plain jane looking car I've seen in awhile. Looks like a car you'd see on a hertz rental lot.

If this is going to be a new M pedigree, just save the "spotted" shots for when its in its final skin.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Captain45

I know this is still in a mule body but man, this is the most underwhelming, plain jane looking car I've seen in awhile. Looks like a car you'd see on a hertz rental lot.

If this is going to be a new M pedigree, just save the "spotted" shots for when its in its final skin.

Prepare to eat your ridiculous words

[ashburyn54]

I'm seeing a lot of hate for the single twin scroll setups. I don't know how many of you had n54's but I would take a single over twins for this application. In a perfect world, two turbos working together within their efficiency range are more "robust" than a single setup working harder but that's just not the case. It just means more moving parts. Sure you get more low end/mid range grunt when done correctly. That doesn't translate into the high revving M philosophy.

To be honest, I think a larger single will make a lot of people happy. We aren't talking large, just larger than the minuscule turbos td03-td04 sized turbos. I would happily trade the almost unneeded <1700 rpm grunt for something that pulls hard all the way to the top.

The n54 really becomes special when combined with a larger (52-62ish) twin scroll turbo. I'm not saying I expect that but why not something like the small Borg Warner EFR turbos. Something that can breath to 7500rpm and 500whp would be amazing. When it comes down to it, I'm not using 100% throttle at 2k rpm, maybe 3.5-4k when merging. A larger twin scroll can handle that undoubtably. Even far lower. We do have 3.0L to work with.

To me this translates to a few things.

1-NA style throttle response down low and when downshifting
2-more tuner friendly
3-power where you want it.
4-much better sound
5-more reliable/safer for the engine. Bigger turbo vs small turbo at the same boost level not only equals more power, but less strain on the engine.

There's no room today for the lag argument. The technology is there. The question is: do you want 450lbs of torque when your leaving Wendy's parking lot, or when your actually trying to have fun? High gear highway passing speeds included.

I hope some agree with my little rant

[Gibson6594]

Man, it's a snooze fest around here lately. Give us something to talk about BMW!

[B///MW]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

Man, it's a snooze fest around here lately. Give us something to talk about BMW!

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by ashburyn54

I'm seeing a lot of hate for the single twin scroll setups. I don't know how many of you had n54's but I would take a single over twins for this application. In a perfect world, two turbos working together within their efficiency range are more "robust" than a single setup working harder but that's just not the case. It just means more moving parts. Sure you get more low end/mid range grunt when done correctly. That doesn't translate into the high revving M philosophy.

To be honest, I think a larger single will make a lot of people happy. We aren't talking large, just larger than the minuscule turbos td03-td04 sized turbos. I would happily trade the almost unneeded <1700 rpm grunt for something that pulls hard all the way to the top.

The n54 really becomes special when combined with a larger (52-62ish) twin scroll turbo. I'm not saying I expect that but why not something like the small Borg Warner EFR turbos. Something that can breath to 7500rpm and 500whp would be amazing. When it comes down to it, I'm not using 100% throttle at 2k rpm, maybe 3.5-4k when merging. A larger twin scroll can handle that undoubtably. Even far lower. We do have 3.0L to work with.

To me this translates to a few things.

1-NA style throttle response down low and when downshifting
2-more tuner friendly
3-power where you want it.
4-much better sound
5-more reliable/safer for the engine. Bigger turbo vs small turbo at the same boost level not only equals more power, but less strain on the engine.

There's no room today for the lag argument. The technology is there. The question is: do you want 450lbs of torque when your leaving Wendy's parking lot, or when your actually trying to have fun? High gear highway passing speeds included.

I hope some agree with my little rant

None of the latest generation of super high performance turbo cars that are designed to mimmick naturally aspirated performance are single turbo.

M3/M5, Ferrari 488, Merc. GTS. They all use tiny little twins with water air I/C and super short intake plumbing.

Drive an F80 . . . it's about as close to naturally aspirated as a turbo engine can feel, and it revs too.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by ashburyn54

To me this translates to a few things.

1-NA style throttle response down low and when downshifting
2-more tuner friendly
3-power where you want it.
4-much better sound
5-more reliable/safer for the engine. Bigger turbo vs small turbo at the same boost level not only equals more power, but less strain on the engine.

Your list is fine, but above all of those is fuel efficiency. If that paramount goal is not achieved by an engine design, it's not going to happen. There is much more riding on them building fuel efficient engines than making the power hungry segment of their fan base happy.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Racer20

None of the latest generation of super high performance turbo cars that are designed to mimmick naturally aspirated performance are single turbo.

M3/M5, Ferrari 488, Merc. GTS. They all use tiny little twins with water air I/C and super short intake plumbing.

Drive an F80 . . . it's about as close to naturally aspirated as a turbo engine can feel, and it revs too.

The twin-scroll, single turbo setup on the N55 served two purposes:

1) Reduced cost.

2) Increased fuel efficiency.

[Alpine*]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

The twin-scroll, single turbo setup on the N55 served two purposes:

1) Reduced cost.

2) Increased fuel efficiency.

Agree.

Nothing more nothing less, it's a business, BMW are there to make money after all.

[RLBB]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Autoevolution has a really nice breakdown on why Autocar are wrong.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/40...-it-88043.html

The impression I've developed over the years is that Autocar are a bunch of headline trolling losers just looking for ad impressions rather than actual facts.

Don't be fooled by auto evolution though. They copy a lot of the stuff from here and other bmw blogs. Lots of their info is reused and applied some common sense.

[sebaflex]

Originally Posted by ashburyn54

I'm seeing a lot of hate for the single twin scroll setups. I don't know how many of you had n54's but I would take a single over twins for this application. In a perfect world, two turbos working together within their efficiency range are more "robust" than a single setup working harder but that's just not the case. It just means more moving parts. Sure you get more low end/mid range grunt when done correctly. That doesn't translate into the high revving M philosophy.

To be honest, I think a larger single will make a lot of people happy. We aren't talking large, just larger than the minuscule turbos td03-td04 sized turbos. I would happily trade the almost unneeded <1700 rpm grunt for something that pulls hard all the way to the top.

The n54 really becomes special when combined with a larger (52-62ish) twin scroll turbo. I'm not saying I expect that but why not something like the small Borg Warner EFR turbos. Something that can breath to 7500rpm and 500whp would be amazing. When it comes down to it, I'm not using 100% throttle at 2k rpm, maybe 3.5-4k when merging. A larger twin scroll can handle that undoubtably. Even far lower. We do have 3.0L to work with.

To me this translates to a few things.

1-NA style throttle response down low and when downshifting
2-more tuner friendly
3-power where you want it.
4-much better sound
5-more reliable/safer for the engine. Bigger turbo vs small turbo at the same boost level not only equals more power, but less strain on the engine.

There's no room today for the lag argument. The technology is there. The question is: do you want 450lbs of torque when your leaving Wendy's parking lot, or when your actually trying to have fun? High gear highway passing speeds included.

I hope some agree with my little rant

Hit the nail on the head buddy. I agree!

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by RLBB

Don't be fooled by auto evolution though. They copy a lot of the stuff from here and other bmw blogs. Lots of their info is reused and applied some common sense.

Wait a second. Don't be fooled by Auto Evolution? They haven't claimed to be a primary source. To "copy a lot of stuff from here and other bmw blogs" is called research. These forums are as good a source as any when it comes to rumor leaks. Gathering information and applying common sense isn't fooling; it's informing.

[Reedomn]

Originally Posted by B///MW///

THIS !!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ashburyn54

I'm seeing a lot of hate for the single twin scroll setups. I don't know how many of you had n54's but I would take a single over twins for this application. In a perfect world, two turbos working together within their efficiency range are more "robust" than a single setup working harder but that's just not the case. It just means more moving parts. Sure you get more low end/mid range grunt when done correctly. That doesn't translate into the high revving M philosophy.

To be honest, I think a larger single will make a lot of people happy. We aren't talking large, just larger than the minuscule turbos td03-td04 sized turbos. I would happily trade the almost unneeded <1700 rpm grunt for something that pulls hard all the way to the top.

The n54 really becomes special when combined with a larger (52-62ish) twin scroll turbo. I'm not saying I expect that but why not something like the small Borg Warner EFR turbos. Something that can breath to 7500rpm and 500whp would be amazing. When it comes down to it, I'm not using 100% throttle at 2k rpm, maybe 3.5-4k when merging. A larger twin scroll can handle that undoubtably. Even far lower. We do have 3.0L to work with.

To me this translates to a few things.

1-NA style throttle response down low and when downshifting
2-more tuner friendly
3-power where you want it.
4-much better sound
5-more reliable/safer for the engine. Bigger turbo vs small turbo at the same boost level not only equals more power, but less strain on the engine.

There's no room today for the lag argument. The technology is there. The question is: do you want 450lbs of torque when your leaving Wendy's parking lot, or when your actually trying to have fun? High gear highway passing speeds included.

I hope some agree with my little rant

BMW engineers themselves opted for a TWIN turbo set up on the N54 and also advised that it was because the engine had more power and more robust (read: reliable, as you mentioned) as a twin turbo setup. This is why the 1M used a twin turbo and not the single turbo that was on the N55.


I am aware of the single turbo aftermarket.... and while all out POWER is a goal using a single turbo setup.... is the reliability the same? I made a comment in an EAS tuning thread yesterday when a tuner said that now the motor is making power " like it should be "

My question (which he declined to respond to)

What's the warranty?
Who pays for the motor when it blows up in the first 2 years ( in some markets... and in 4 years for the US market ) ?


When you tune for all out power.. the tradeoff is reliability. So of course.. one can make more power using different setups and dialing up the boost and messing with the fuel a bit... .. but If you can't guarantee the same reliability then you are comparing apples and oranges..

and finally.... companies must watch out for emissions...
When you make a single turbo mod in your shop..... are you concerned about the car passing emissions for the next 10 to 20 years?

BMW is... because they have to deal with things like emissions in Europe and also CAFE requlations in the US. the aftermarket tuner.. does not.

So... my answer is.... no ... I don't want 450 Hp if it means that I don't have a warranty... 335 hp has been just fine for me.... if you love 450... go for it... but don't expect manufacturers to design cars to make it easier for you to modify...... I am pretty sure that line item falls off their list of design goals pretty early on when they have to be concerned about providing a warranty and dealing with emissions requirements... That's also why manufacturers go RACING... ;-) so they can really explore without having to worry about laws and bean counters.. perhaps you will be very interested in what power is made by the new M6 GTR with it's turbo motor.. ?

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1158592

hmmm... M twin power technology..


As far as the " unneeded " grunt at 1700 rpm... leggo my Eggo... I use that on the street EVERY TIME I accelerate...
I do not get to redline or the top end of the rpm range... Every time I accelerate...

When I owned my E30 M3.... I *did * to take it to redline nearly every shift.. ... believe me... the car sounded so good... and you had to!
However.. It's simply much more satisfying in real world driving situations for the majority of buyers to have plenty of torque as opposed to a ton of hp at 8K rpm. In this regard.. the 1M is a much more fun car to drive on a daily basis than the E90x M3 and the E46 M3.

Sure.. at the track... I do wish I had more of that top end... and the S55 does provide that right?
I just wish BMW would have had the balls to make the M2 with a wild 4 cylinder S20, ... because they could have the high revving screaming motor like the S14 and also retained the torque output similar to a 6 cylinder motor

[Gonven]

Not to much to see but still, a M2 Alpine White is there

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hp..._9651614_n.mp4

[ashburyn54]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

BMW engineers themselves opted for a TWIN turbo set up on the N54 and also advised that it was because the engine had more power and more robust (read: reliable, as you mentioned) as a twin turbo setup. This is why the 1M used a twin turbo and not the single turbo that was on the N55.


I am aware of the single turbo aftermarket.... and while all out POWER is a goal using a single turbo setup.... is the reliability the same? I made a comment in an EAS tuning thread yesterday when a tuner said that now the motor is making power " like it should be "

My question (which he declined to respond to)

What's the warranty?
Who pays for the motor when it blows up in the first 2 years ( in some markets... and in 4 years for the US market ) ?


When you tune for all out power.. the tradeoff is reliability. So of course.. one can make more power using different setups and dialing up the boost and messing with the fuel a bit... .. but If you can't guarantee the same reliability then you are comparing apples and oranges..

and finally.... companies must watch out for emissions...
When you make a single turbo mod in your shop..... are you concerned about the car passing emissions for the next 10 to 20 years?

BMW is... because they have to deal with things like emissions in Europe and also CAFE requlations in the US. the aftermarket tuner.. does not.

So... my answer is.... no ... I don't want 450 Hp if it means that I don't have a warranty... 335 hp has been just fine for me.... if you love 450... go for it... but don't expect manufacturers to design cars to make it easier for you to modify...... I am pretty sure that line item falls off their list of design goals pretty early on when they have to be concerned about providing a warranty and dealing with emissions requirements... That's also why manufacturers go RACING... ;-) so they can really explore without having to worry about laws and bean counters.. perhaps you will be very interested in what power is made by the new M6 GTR with it's turbo motor.. ?

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1158592

hmmm... M twin power technology..


As far as the " unneeded " grunt at 1700 rpm... leggo my Eggo... I use that on the street EVERY TIME I accelerate...
I do not get to redline or the top end of the rpm range... Every time I accelerate...

When I owned my E30 M3.... I *did * to take it to redline nearly every shift.. ... believe me... the car sounded so good... and you had to!
However.. It's simply much more satisfying in real world driving situations for the majority of buyers to have plenty of torque as opposed to a ton of hp at 8K rpm. In this regard.. the 1M is a much more fun car to drive on a daily basis than the E90x M3 and the E46 M3.

Sure.. at the track... I do wish I had more of that top end... and the S55 does provide that right?
I just wish BMW would have had the balls to make the M2 with a wild 4 cylinder S20, ... because they could have the high revving screaming motor like the S14 and also retained the torque output similar to a 6 cylinder motor

I basically agree with everything here. I guess what I would be happier with is a strung out S turbo 4. I probably hated the idea of it less than 6 months ago. Now it just sounds fantastic.

[Makman]

Will the M2 have M-seats and M-rear-view mirrors?


New to this forum so idk if it has been disscused before or not.

Thanks!