[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

Analog in reference to suspension and setting for shocks. All cars are digital now DUH. Keep it in the context of what we are referring to. M mode with M suspension setup (if offered), steering ratio changes yada yada. That is the analog we are refering to not the car.

Will the M2 be a better car, I sure hope so as they have had a lot more time to do tech since the 1M. That is a mute point I think we all agree.

Sorry, but you lost me. In the context of your post where you mentioned analog, you were referring to reliable older tech and being easier to fix. It can be argued that newer tech is to improve performance and reliability. So in your context of M suspension whether it's old or new tech, once it fails you fix it by replacing it. Same goes for a steering racks whether it's hydraulic or electric.

Let's all face reality. First, electric power steering is here to stay, so them 1M will prevail over the M2 in steering feel. Secondly, the 2 series like the 1 series it replaced is the economy class series of BMW. The technology improvements in the M235 are extensive (multi-pot brake calipers, launch control, idrive touch pad, larger nav screen, brake energy regeneration, backup camera, and aluminum suspension components), but less than those found in the 3 series. I highly doubt the M2 being the entry level M model will get EDC or HUD or CCB. It will be the most analog of the M models because they have to keep the price down to attract the younger buyers. Thirdly, owning and maintaining a German performance car will never be cheap but at least the N54 and N55 helps avoid some of the M taxes.

[MDIVISION]

M2

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

Analog in reference to suspension and setting for shocks. All cars are digital now DUH. Keep it in the context of what we are referring to. M mode with M suspension setup (if offered), steering ratio changes yada yada. That is the analog we are refering to not the car.

Will the M2 be a better car, I sure hope so as they have had a lot more time to do tech since the 1M. That is a mute point I think we all agree.

There is no doubt about it.

The M2 has to be a better car.

With the DCT alone it will be better IMO.

[golf_234]

Wait!! Absolutely.

[gaijin]

Hands down, if those are your choices, wait and get the M2.

[Das Johnson]

So why did we resurrect this thread?

[Cope]

This thread:


And LOL @ DCT making it better

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Cope

This thread:


And LOL @ DCT making it better

LOL. DCT to "make it better" is pretty hilarious indeed! No thanks...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

LOL. DCT to "make it better" is pretty hilarious indeed! No thanks...

Depends on what your goals are to be honest. DCT is going to be better for auto cross and track use for the average driver because it is so technically superior.

Fun/experience are really subjective and depend on the person.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Depends on what your goals are to be honest. DCT is going to be better for auto cross and track use for the average driver because it is so technically superior.

Fun/experience are really subjective and depend on the person.

Exactly !

The DCT holds Boost during a shift, the 6 speed manual does not !! !! !!

[JustChris]

Nowt wrong with 'DCT better' especially if there are options for 6MT and DCT.

DCT Lightning fast, flexible and efficient in comparison, merits and fans of both.

Last car 6mt 235i
Current M4 DCT

[IEDEI]

if the 1M came with a DCT only--- I, along with many others, would not own one....and the 1M would have never been so in demand. Manual or bust.

The whole point of cars like this is simplicity, enthusiasm, and enjoyment....not millisecond gains in speed or boost....

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

if the 1M came with a DCT only--- I, along with many others, would not own one....and the 1M would have never been so in demand. Manual or bust.

The whole point of cars like this is simplicity, enthusiasm, and enjoyment....not millisecond gains in speed or boost....

Again, it depends on a whole host of factors - it's not as simple as you seem to make it. Remember, BMW put the 1M together very quickly, which likely led to it being MT only - not some vague connection to subjective criteria on what constitutes an "enthusiast" car.

Secondly, I have been a MT driver my entire life. I have only had one auto car the entire time I've been driving, which was a DCT...and I have to admit that the DCT in the M4 I tested the other day was far far far faster in every way than I could ever shift. Or you. Or Mario Andretti. So......it's not milliseconds as you purport above. There is a substantial difference in performance. As a staunch supporter of MT, I can admit that without getting my panties in a bunch. You should too.

We know you love your 1M, as you should. But, it's not the greatest car in the history of the world. It's a parts bin special my man. The new M2 won't be that. It's actually been engineered to be an M car, and I think difference is going to show. Nothing against the 1M - it's a great car - but it's not going to be in the same performance league as the M2. And it shouldn't be.

Also, the new DCT was supremely satisfying in the M4. I hope they offer it in the M2. What a transmission...what a car...that thing was on rails at 85 mph in turns that my 235 can't take at 70. It's on a completely different level. I think M2 will be as well.

[pikcachu]

"parts bin special"

also no warranty on the 1M

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Again, it depends on a whole host of factors - it's not as simple as you seem to make it. Remember, BMW put the 1M together very quickly, which likely led to it being MT only - not some vague connection to subjective criteria on what constitutes an "enthusiast" car.

Secondly, I have been a MT driver my entire life. I have only had one auto car the entire time I've been driving, which was a DCT...and I have to admit that the DCT in the M4 I tested the other day was far far far faster in every way than I could ever shift. Or you. Or Mario Andretti. So......it's not milliseconds as you purport above. There is a substantial difference in performance. As a staunch supporter of MT, I can admit that without getting my panties in a bunch. You should too.

We know you love your 1M, as you should. But, it's not the greatest car in the history of the world. It's a parts bin special my man. The new M2 won't be that. It's actually been engineered to be an M car, and I think difference is going to show. Nothing against the 1M - it's a great car - but it's not going to be in the same performance league as the M2. And it shouldn't be.

Also, the new DCT was supremely satisfying in the M4. I hope they offer it in the M2. What a transmission...what a car...that thing was on rails at 85 mph in turns that my 235 can't take at 70. It's on a completely different level. I think M2 will be as well.

not the greatest car ever....but damn fun...more than almost anything else on the road. sorry but the M2 is being developed to sell cars not to just be fun....it won't be in the same ballpark of simplicity or enjoyment.....not even close IMO.

there are a few 1M owners who also have recently got an F80 M3 and so far all of them that I've heard compare the two say the 1M is the more enjoyable car to drive....

Parts bin car is something to be proud of. The 1M was built with passion by engineers..the M2 is mostly copying the 1M formula with emphasis on marketing and sales. Not the same thing. You do realise the M2 is also going to be a 'parts bin car'..just not as special. DCT is nice but just modern stuff....it's nothing to get excited about IMO.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

if the 1M came with a DCT only--- I, along with many others, would not own one....and the 1M would have never been so in demand. Manual or bust.

The whole point of cars like this is simplicity, enthusiasm, and enjoyment....not millisecond gains in speed or boost....

For some the M2 might be their only car, so a DD, part time track car and weekend fun all in one. DCT as an [I]option[/b] therefore is great. The fastest possible acceleration in this scenario might be advantageous. The lower CO2 and better efficiency....whilst also being quicker is also a big attraction in Europe for a DCT vs manual too.

I love how as time moves on the 1M becomes all about the experience rather than anything to do with sport performance. Very convenient, as it slows up comparatively

Not bashing the 1M at all its a great car. M2 will be a great car too and is designed for these times.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Again, it depends on a whole host of factors - it's not as simple as you seem to make it. Remember, BMW put the 1M together very quickly, which likely led to it being MT only - not some vague connection to subjective criteria on what constitutes an "enthusiast" car.

Secondly, I have been a MT driver my entire life. I have only had one auto car the entire time I've been driving, which was a DCT...and I have to admit that the DCT in the M4 I tested the other day was far far far faster in every way than I could ever shift. Or you. Or Mario Andretti. So......it's not milliseconds as you purport above. There is a substantial difference in performance. As a staunch supporter of MT, I can admit that without getting my panties in a bunch. You should too.

We know you love your 1M, as you should. But, it's not the greatest car in the history of the world. It's a parts bin special my man. The new M2 won't be that. It's actually been engineered to be an M car, and I think difference is going to show. Nothing against the 1M - it's a great car - but it's not going to be in the same performance league as the M2. And it shouldn't be.

Also, the new DCT was supremely satisfying in the M4. I hope they offer it in the M2. What a transmission...what a car...that thing was on rails at 85 mph in turns that my 235 can't take at 70. It's on a completely different level. I think M2 will be as well.

I'm curious as to why you think the M2 is not going to be a parts bin special. And unless the M2 comes with the S55 or the N55 gets a major overhaul, the 1M will have the better motor. I'm not bashing the M2, I want one to go next to my 1M.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by M Car Chris

For some the M2 might be their only car, so a DD, part time track car and weekend fun all in one. DCT as an [I]option[/b] therefore is great. The fastest possible acceleration in this scenario might be advantageous. The lower CO2 and better efficiency....whilst also being quicker is also a big attraction in Europe for a DCT vs manual too.

I love how as time moves on the 1M becomes all about the experience rather than anything to do with sport performance. Very convenient, as it slows up comparatively

Not bashing the 1M at all its a great car. M2 will be a great car too and is designed for these times.

all great cars are about the experience! see M1, E30 M3, and virtually any great performance cars. 'newer' cars often technically outperform older cars....but in the grand scheme of things that is far less important than how enjoyable something is to drive.

one of the best examples of this in BMW history is the E36 M3 vs. the E30 M3. The M2 will be very similar to the E36 M3 in this comparison. Technically superior in every way but...well you know the rest of the story!

the whole 'classic car' market is built on this premise

BTW I really want the M2 to be a great car...hell I may even buy one! But to me it won't replace the 1M....it will be added to the garage.

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

all great cars are about the experience! see M1, E30 M3, and virtually any great performance cars. 'newer' cars often technically outperform older cars....but in the grand scheme of things that is far less important than how enjoyable something is to drive.

one of the best examples of this in BMW history is the E36 M3 vs. the E30 M3. The M2 will be very similar to the E36 M3 in this comparison. Technically superior in every way but...well you know the rest of the story!

the whole 'classic car' market is built on this premise

BTW I really want the M2 to be a great car...hell I may even buy one! But to me it won't replace the 1M....it will be added to the garage.

And you will be a lucky devil to have both if that's the case!! It'll be interesting to see what's "parts bin" vs specifically engineered for the M2 considering that it's more purpose built than the 1M, ie it'll have a somewhat normal run albeit at limited output compared to the M3/4 twins. Truthfully, considering the parts bin that BMW will be raiding for this car, the M2 is going to be pretty darned outstanding.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

And you will be a lucky devil to have both if that's the case!! It'll be interesting to see what's "parts bin" vs specifically engineered for the M2 considering that it's more purpose built than the 1M, ie it'll have a somewhat normal run albeit at limited output compared to the M3/4 twins. Truthfully, considering the parts bin that BMW will be raiding for this car, the M2 is going to be pretty darned outstanding.

I've never understood using parts bin as an insult to the 1M or possibly the M2. It would be different if the parts borrowed were from a lesser car.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I've never understood using parts bin as an insult to the 1M or possibly the M2. It would be different if the parts borrowed were from a lesser car.

Not meant as an insult at all my man - simply stating the facts. The car wasn't designed from the ground up to be an M car. It was put together really quickly at the end of the E82 model cycle to determine if there was a business case for an M in the range below the M3. The M2 won't fit that definition (designed from the ground up to be an ///M) in the way we might think of older M cars, but certainly more work and specific engineering will have gone into it compared to the 1M.

Another parts bin special, the Z3M, is also a cult classic - so I am not arguing against the merits of the 1M. They are substantial and it is a great car. Performance-wise, for the reasons stated above (and others, such as DCT), the M2 should be much more capable than the 1M. It will be a failure, in my opinion anyway, if it isn't.

Most of the other stuff - looks, feel, fun factor, experience - well those are subjective and can be debated until the cows come home.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

Parts bin car is something to be proud of. The 1M was built with passion by engineers..the M2 is mostly copying the 1M formula with emphasis on marketing and sales. Not the same thing. You do realise the M2 is also going to be a 'parts bin car'..just not as special. DCT is nice but just modern stuff....it's nothing to get excited about IMO.

Yeah, not going to agree with you there, in terms of the M2 copying the 1M formula or the M2 not being developed with passion by BMW's engineers. The 1M was created in less than a year - the development of the M2 has considerable time, effort, and money invested by BMW so that it will be better than the 1M in every measurable way.

Again, we all know you love your 1M. And that you loved your 135is. And hate the 2er - but facts will be facts my man. It's the same song you hear from the M3 crowd every time a new one comes out - the E46 was the best...no, the s65 is the best...blah blah blah. Performance-wise, neither of those cars can touch the F80/82. It's not even close (5 seconds difference on the Top Gear track between E92 and F80, just for starters)...and it is like that every generation. The performance gets better and better each time.

It will be the same with the M2 for objective criteria. Subjective criteria is a fun debate, but you're making grand conclusions about a car that no one on this board has driven.

Go back out to the garage and wipe the 1M with a baby diaper, and I am sure you will feel better.