[danimal]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I didn't have to walk uphill BOTH ways, just one way.
But I did have to walk to school.

In high school, I actually took public transportation (the subway plus a metro bus) and walked a few blocks on top of that. Not sure how that ranks on the tough-o-meter .

Originally Posted by RPM90

The main issue is the actual steering feel, more so, how the driver feels what is going on with the tires at the front.
That has more to do with the steering rack and system more than the electric assist of the steering effort.

Interesting, I haven't heard that claim before. This may be a stupid question, but did BMW need to design a new type of rack to allow for the electric rather than hydraulic assist? Also, are there are any examples of cars that have gone from hydraulic to electric assist but not been cited for reduced steering feel?

I've driven three cars lately with electric assist, a Chevy Cruze, a VW Passat, and of course my new 228i, and one thing I've definitely noticed was a complete lack of bump steer. The wheel just doesn't seem to be the slightest bit perturbed by bumps. I think with my E90, the steering wheel tries to turn a bit when the front tires impact a bump. I think of bump steer as part of what people mean by steering feel. It is one type of information about what is going on with the front wheels (kind of like Braille). Is it particularly helpful or enjoyable? Personally, I feel like a little bit of it is probably good, but a lot of it is definitely bad.

Another type of information, which I think is potentially more valuable but also (for most people) less frequently used, is whether you can tell if the front tires are gripping or slipping. I haven't driven any of these cars in slippery conditions (or past 7/10), so I really don't have a great sense of how this type of information is transmitted. I would hope that, whatever the type of assist, if you are really in a full skid, the steering wheel gets very light. After all, even with no assist, you should experience greatly reduced effort. But the real issue is whether you know you are about to start skidding. I need more seat time to evaluate that.

[danimal]

To follow up on my previous post, today I finally got the opportunity to take my new 228i Sport Line on a nice winding two-laner. Compared with my '07 328i sedan, the coupe has the definite edge in handling and seats. Both cars have sport seats, but the 228's have a bit more lateral support and really keep you locked in place against the g-forces. I also like the turbo in this situation, because it will pull nicely in any of the middle gears (3, 4, 5). Of course, the shifter is such a pleasure to use, I don't really mind doing a lot of shifting.

But, ah, the steering. I really can't say I missed the feel of the E90's hydraulically assisted rack until today. For daily driving, it just doesn't matter to me. The car goes exactly where I point it, and since there's not much going on with the front tires, whatever is not getting transmitted through the wheel is just not that important. I kind of appreciate the way it lightens up at parking speeds, too. When you start pushing the car, though, it really is noticeable that something is missing. In the twisties, I still felt like I had full control of the car, and it still went exactly where I wanted it to go, but I just didn't enjoy myself quite as much. I"d say the fun factor is a B+ or an A-, but with better steering feel, it could easily be an A+.

Perhaps with time, I'll get used to it, but the feel of my E90 through this particular stretch of road is imprinted in my brain. It will take a while to forget it.

[grant]

Originally Posted by danimal

This may be a stupid question, but did BMW need to design a new type of rack to allow for the electric rather than hydraulic assist? Also, are there are any examples of cars that have gone from hydraulic to electric assist but not been cited for reduced steering feel?

Yes, the electric rack has an electric motor built right in and there are multiple sensors to make the system work that are not present in the hydraulic version.

I am not aware of any car that went from hydraulic to electric and didn't suffer a loss of feel. In fact the M3/M4 may be the best example of a good evolution without losing much.

Porsches have really suffered. While they were pretty much the paragon of excellent power steering (far better than BMW's ///M hydraulic system, imo), they are now merely average among EPS sports cars (with the GT3 being much better than average, but still far worse than the last hydraulic GT3 which was maybe the best example ever of power steering).

[ska///235i]

Seeing how bmw direction is going and their way of marketing

Im not suprise that they will leave the best steering feel/programs for the M cars exclusively since EPS are now programmable

Buying a 3 series even with sports pkg is now like buying a camary/accord

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Seeing how bmw direction is going and their way of marketing

Im not suprise that they will leave the best steering feel/programs for the M cars exclusively since EPS are now programmable

Buying a 3 series even with sports pkg is now like buying a camary/accord

OUCH, but kind of true.
While run of the mill sedans have improved in the handling and suspension departments, BMW has moved backwards.
All in an effort to bring softer dynamics to the buying public.
In that, BMW has succeeded. The F30 3 series has been a huge sales success, which means BMW doesn't have to listen to us more hard-core drivers who don't mind some stiffness in the suspension as long as we get more grip on the tarmac.
They don't care that we bitch about the number steering feel and lightened steering effort, because their sales have increased as the overall BMW has become softer all around in order to appeal to the brand buyers as the dismay of the brand drivers.

It is very true that even the sport/Msport versions are softer than they need to be. I'm often surprised at how many F30 sport/Msport owners love the "comfort" and even "ECO" modes.

You pick the "sport" or "Msport" and you dare drive it in anything except 'sport' or 'sport+' modes?
If you love the soggy non existent acceleration of ECO mode, then why o why get the sport/Msport variant, cause it "looks" cool?

IMO, th only aspect of concessions to softness that are good to have is the adaptive suspensions ability to go with a softer setting, which works nicely on long highway slogs.
But even if it wasn't there past BMW sport suspension calibrations worked perfectly for smooth highway driving.