[oldmancoyote]

The interesting thing overall is that most if not all of these discussions would NOT be happening if BMW had called the car "235is" rather than sticking an M in front of the number.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Really, you're going to call the 2 series an improvement over the 1?

Please, let us know the differences they made to the engine, suspension design, or the lack of power steering?

I'm not trying to favor the E82 here, but there is nothing drastically different here. The F22 has the same achilles heel as the E82. Perfect example is the front fender room. You're constricted to a 245 tire, 255 if you want to roll/pull (probably gotta do that with a 245).

BTW - The F22 is far from "little". My E82 weighs 522 lbs less. BMW really improved here for sure!




Oh, and before you make such statements you might want to look back at the E86 Z4Ms. Perhaps the most "true" BMW M Vehicle ever made. It will walk a M235 around the track, I can guarantee that.

M235i N55 increase output from 300 hp to 322 hp by revised software, revised cooling system, materially upgraded the camshaft and revised the exhaust system. 0-60 under 5.

Better gas mileage

8-speed Sport Automatic transmission (Best auto out there, no contest)

Adaptive M Sport Suspension with electronically controlled damper

Electric steering is a topic that has been discuss for over a year now has its pros and cons. I was once like you all upset about the new eps system over hps, after 6 months I'll say I'll never go back to hps.

The 2 series is bigger than the 1 but its still the smallest/balanced BMW in its current lineup. Looks are subjective, but the 2 series exterior and interior is better looking than the 1 IMHO.

Im not sure what the 128 weights but a 228 isnt that far off...all New MY gets a little heavier, nothig new here

Yes its soft but thats only in comfort mode, put it in sport/+ and lap times dont lie

You seem a little biase cuz you own a z4m and a 128 (which are great bmws) but there are far more great bmws out there. You also claim a z4m will "walk" a m235i. I love the z4m but "walk" a m235i??? LOLZ

Not here to insult you. When a new model comes out, it doesnt need 100 more HP and a 10 sec lap time faster to make it new. It gets a new refresh interior/exterior with a bit of performance gain and a shit load of tech stuff is enough to sell in todays market. Dont forget BMW's game, they like to come out with new engines in a >2 year cycle to increase sales IE...M240i

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

M235i N55 increase output from 300 hp to 322 hp by revised software, revised cooling system, materially upgraded the camshaft and revised the exhaust system. 0-60 under 5.

Better gas mileage

8-speed Sport Automatic transmission (Best auto out there, no contest)

Adaptive M Sport Suspension with electronically controlled damper

Electric steering is a topic that has been discuss for over a year now has its pros and cons. I was once like you all upset about the new eps system over hps, after 6 months I'll say I'll never go back to hps.

The 2 series is bigger than the 1 but its still the smallest/balanced BMW in its current lineup. Looks are subjective, but the 2 series exterior and interior is better looking than the 1 IMHO.

Im not sure what the 128 weights but a 228 isnt that far off...all New MY gets a little heavier, nothig new here

Yes its soft but thats only in comfort mode, put it in sport/+ and lap times dont lie

You seem a little biase cuz you own a z4m and a 128 (which are great bmws) but there are far more great bmws out there. You also claim a z4m will "walk" a m235i. I love the z4m but "walk" a m235i??? LOLZ

My 128i weighed in at 3053 lbs at stock weight.

Currently at 2983 lbs, with a 60 lbs battery in the back and a full exhaust.

F22 cars weigh in at 3400 + They are TANKS.

The electronic controlled dampers are meh. They aren't like a Porsche GT3 electronic controlled damper, that's for sure.

I'll stick to my HPS all day. I don't want to go 5 mph and turn the wheel less than 1 turn and achieve full lock...no way. That's impossible to accurately predict in track use...because this car is supposed to be a track king, right?

Lap times don't lie...sure, so how many laps have you done in your car?



The Z4M is the stiffest chassis ever made by BMW, add the fact it has a full M Variable Diff in the rear...versus an open e-diff in the M235i.

The Z4M ran the 'Ring 10 seconds faster than an E46M. Given they have the same powerplant I'm going to say the chassis the the dynamics of the car has something to offer.

The M235i stock for stock will never compete with a car like a Z4M in the turns. Sorry to crush your ego.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

My 128i weighed in at 3053 lbs at stock weight.

Currently at 2983 lbs, with a 60 lbs battery in the back and a full exhaust.

F22 cars weigh in at 3400 + They are TANKS.

The electronic controlled dampers are meh. They aren't like a Porsche GT3 electronic controlled damper, that's for sure.

I'll stick to my HPS all day. I don't want to go 5 mph and turn the wheel less than 1 turn and achieve full lock...no way. That's impossible to accurately predict in track use...because this car is supposed to be a track king, right?

Lap times don't lie...sure, so how many laps have you done in your car?



The Z4M is the stiffest chassis ever made by BMW, add the fact it has a full M Variable Diff in the rear...versus an open e-diff in the M235i.

The Z4M ran the 'Ring 10 seconds faster than an E46M. Given they have the same powerplant I'm going to say the chassis the the dynamics of the car has something to offer.

The M235i stock for stock will never compete with a car like a Z4M in the turns. Sorry to crush your ego.

No ego crushed here

I never claim a m235i will beat a z4m...but the word walk seems excessive

You can claim your rides are better and thats fine cuz we all love our own children more right? but to say the 2 series isnt an improvement over the 1 is where Iam pointing out

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Oh, and before you make such statements you might want to look back at the E86 Z4Ms. Perhaps the most "true" BMW M Vehicle ever made. It will walk a M235 around the track, I can guarantee that.

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

The Z4M is the stiffest chassis ever made by BMW, add the fact it has a full M Variable Diff in the rear...versus an open e-diff in the M235i.

The Z4M ran the 'Ring 10 seconds faster than an E46M. Given they have the same powerplant I'm going to say the chassis the the dynamics of the car has something to offer.

The M235i stock for stock will never compete with a car like a Z4M in the turns. Sorry to crush your ego.

The Z4M recorded a 8:12 time around Nurburgring, faster than a E46 M3, but slower than the E46 M3 CSL.

In this video the M235i is set up against a E46 M3 CSL around a track. They set identical lap times. A car that can do identical lap times with a CSL is quite quick, so not sure the Z4M will walk a M235i...

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by oldmancoyote

The interesting thing overall is that most if not all of these discussions would NOT be happening if BMW had called the car "235is" rather than sticking an M in front of the number.

+1

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Really, you're going to call the 2 series an improvement over the 1?

Me? No sir.
I would never say that...

Road and Track
"Actually, our biggest complaint about the old 1 Series was how it looked—and BMW definitely fixed that. The 2 is far better looking than the 1 Series it replaces."
"It’s quiet, and adaptive shocks mean this car doesn’t pogo down the road like the old 135i did. It also doesn’t seem to crash over big bumps. This is a major improvement."

Oliver Ganser, Product Strategy and Market Intelligence Manager at BMW
"What we have seen on our tracks is that this car [M235i] is faster than a 1M Coupe."

Car & Driver
"It’s simple math: The 2-series replaced the 1-series and it’s twice the fun."
"the M235i is neither a fully aggro M car nor just a day-to-day standard sports coupe. Its character is in between the two. And that’s . . . well, that’s perfect."

Motor Trend
"The M235i is one of the best-driving BMWs in recent memory, on par with the 1M and the last-generation M3 not only in performance standards, but also in how much it makes you smile. You no longer have to be jealous of orange 1Ms running around your neighborhood. Considering how much better the M235i looks, it might even go the other way around."

Auto Guide
"The new M235i may lack a smidge of the no-compromises performance found in the 1 M Coupe, but it is a better all-around package."
"Having yet to try the new M3 or M4, we can safely say the M235i is the most engaging car in the BMW lineup today."

Top Gear
"But didn't you eventually find the odd crack in the M135i's aura of perfection?
Yup, when we gave it pasting on really corkscrewing roads, it started to heave about and the steering got a bit hazy. But the M235i cuts through that fog. Even compared with the M135i, the springs and dampers are tautened, which cuts roll, keeps the body under better control and sharpens the steering to boot. This new Coupe is properly bolted to the road."

Foxnews
"The all-new M235i isn’t exactly a direct replacement for the 1-Series M Coupe, which was a truly unique specialty piece, but it delivers pretty much the same performance and is a much better car overall."
"The interior grows slightly, but it’s still not much more of a 2+2 with tight rear seats. The quality stuffed in there, however, is several generations better than the old 1-Series, which was all hard plastic and ho-hum trim."

Cars.com
"The BMW M235i subcompact coupe is bigger, better looking, faster and more fun than the 135i it replaces"

The Motor Report
"The 2 Series is the beautiful swan to the 1 Series Coupe’s ugly duckling."

CarbonOctane.com
"The BMW 2 Series replaces the 1 series and while the look of the BMW 1 Series was not to everyones cup of tea, this new BMW M235i is a stunner
"Words just fail to describe how good this car is…"

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Oh, and before you make such statements you might want to look back at the E86 Z4Ms. Perhaps the most "true" BMW M Vehicle ever made. It will walk a M235 around the track, I can guarantee that.

I said, "Have seen nothing out of BMW in many years that is as true to it's roots as the M235i."

I was talking in recent memory. The Z4M was a fantastic 2-seat roadster, but it hasn't been built in over 7 years, right?

[Kgolf31]

This is a losing battle, because all we're going to do here is try to convey points made outside of personal experience.

I've driven both cars quite a bit, and yes, my car is modded and has fixed most of the flaws from stock form. However when you look at the suspension geometry there is no nothing significantly different in terms of front suspension design or rear. You're still limited by tire size on a car that is much heavier and wider. I think the suspension isn't all that great, and there is a numb feeling that you cannot feel what the car is doing through the wheel or seat.

To each their own, as I said in the beginning, and I'll continue to have fun with my E82 instead of linking videos and articles as I sit behind my computer with a stock car.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

To each their own, as I said in the beginning, and I'll continue to have fun with my E82 instead of linking videos and articles as I sit behind my computer with a stock car.

Classic

Oh, and BTW. I own three cars, all modified My F10, and two Ford RS models (one RS Cosworth). I have also tracked all of them, even the F10 wich has M5 CP sway bar, lowered suspension etc. Still a BIG tank, but much better handling than it used to be

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

my car is modded and has fixed most of the flaws from stock form.

Glad you were able to fix most of the flaws.

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I'll continue to have fun with my E82 instead of linking videos and articles as I sit behind my computer with a stock car.

Enjoy your E82. It's a great car, especially when modded.
It's sad for me. I used to have to spend a lot of time fixing flaws in my previous cars.
My stock car doesn't need all this mod work and it's leaving me with all this extra time on my computer.



"The BMW M235i received a near-perfect score to top Consumer Reports’ road test reviews."

http://www.4wheelsnews.com/bmw-m235i...-911-corvette/

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Glad you were able to fix most of the flaws.



Enjoy your E82. It's a great car, especially when modded.
It's sad for me. I used to have to spend a lot of time fixing flaws in my previous cars.
My stock car doesn't need all this mod work and it's leaving me with all this extra time on my computer.



"The BMW M235i received a near-perfect score to top Consumer Reports’ road test reviews."

http://www.4wheelsnews.com/bmw-m235i...-911-corvette/

Lol.

I didn't buy the car to make it look cool, or get the best bang for the buck in terms of what is offered in stock trim.

I bought the car to become an SCCA Autocross car and sooner or later a Time Trials car. The odd and ends replaced are to become a spec STX car, with purposeful modifications.

The car has a lemon title. I don't care about looks, I care about performance.

I ripped the whole suspension out to install Dual Adjustables with spring rates 2.5 times greater than OEM, I ripped out perfectly good seats for Fixed Back Recaros, I have loud annoying brake pads, I rolled my fenders, I've destroyed my front bumper already from hitting cones at 60 mph, my destroyed half of my under panel already.

The car is purposely built, and I compete Nationally with it (Actually Brought home my first National Pro Solo Trophy win this year).


What I'm getting at is I don't care about the inherit "flaws" of the E82, or the looks, or ZOMG it doesn't have 22 more horsepower. I bought it for pure performance.

My opinion was just that, and opinion. Of course there would be kick-back from a F22 forum but some people amazingly got upset about my observations.

I didn't see anything from the M235i that would make me trade in my car instantly, even if it was stock. I don't like the electronic suspension, the car feels bloaty and doesn't feel right in a corner. It doesn't give me confidence. I did like the brake feel though, that was something positive.

Yes, the interior is nicer, and probably overall it is a better built car. No questions. However when I look at cars I look at the potential for them to become competitive in a class dedicated by what you can do to it. And compared to the E82 there is nothing that stands out in that sense.


Anyways, I'll get out of this thread, but I just find it funny how 1 "negative" review is sought after with criticism and slander. But whatever.

[ska///235i]

Not sure if its the M235i owners that are upset...seems like this video review created alot of debate on the M235i vs older M cars.

Its not like this is our first BMW, alot of us have owned BMWs in the past...we're family

My all time fav E36M, and the Clownshoe M.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Lol.

I didn't buy the car to make it look cool, or get the best bang for the buck in terms of what is offered in stock trim.

I bought the car to become an SCCA Autocross car and sooner or later a Time Trials car. The odd and ends replaced are to become a spec STX car, with purposeful modifications.

The car has a lemon title. I don't care about looks, I care about performance.

I ripped the whole suspension out to install Dual Adjustables with spring rates 2.5 times greater than OEM, I ripped out perfectly good seats for Fixed Back Recaros, I have loud annoying brake pads, I rolled my fenders, I've destroyed my front bumper already from hitting cones at 60 mph, my destroyed half of my under panel already.

The car is purposely built, and I compete Nationally with it (Actually Brought home my first National Pro Solo Trophy win this year).


What I'm getting at is I don't care about the inherit "flaws" of the E82, or the looks, or ZOMG it doesn't have 22 more horsepower. I bought it for pure performance.

My opinion was just that, and opinion. Of course there would be kick-back from a F22 forum but some people amazingly got upset about my observations.

I didn't see anything from the M235i that would make me trade in my car instantly, even if it was stock. I don't like the electronic suspension, the car feels bloaty and doesn't feel right in a corner. It doesn't give me confidence. I did like the brake feel though, that was something positive.

Yes, the interior is nicer, and probably overall it is a better built car. No questions. However when I look at cars I look at the potential for them to become competitive in a class dedicated by what you can do to it. And compared to the E82 there is nothing that stands out in that sense.


Anyways, I'll get out of this thread, but I just find it funny how 1 "negative" review is sought after with criticism and slander. But whatever.

Your car is nothing like a stock 1 series. Kind of like comparing apples to candy apples, to oranges.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Anyways, I'll get out of this thread, but I just find it funny how 1 "negative" review is sought after with criticism and slander. But whatever.

Actually, it wasn't really a "negative" review. You claimed that the 2 series is no improvement over the 1, and asked for list of things that were improved. You also said that the Z4M "would walk a M235 around the track, I guarantee that", to which you were replied to as well. Nobody put down either of those cars. In fact, many of us respect them, especially the Z4M.

BTW, to answer your question regarding car weights, a stock 128i is listed at 3208lbs, while a stock F22 228i is listed at 3295lbs, a difference of 87 lbs. A minor difference given the vast improvements made to the F22 (improved suspension over the choppy/sloppy e82 suspension, stiffer and more rigid chassis, faster on the track/street/highway, vastly improved gas mileage, safer, more comfortable when need be, etc). I know your car is much lighter, but stock vs stock is really the apples to apples comparison here.

In any case, let's just enjoy our cars for what they are. We are all BMW enthusiasts and understand how much we love our cars (and defend them to no end). Also, much respect to you in making your 128i what it is right now, and hope you enjoy it to the fullest.

[Imola.ZHP]

Originally Posted by golf_234

Finally someone who gets it. Beautiful car, btw.

Late thank you, but thank you, it's paid for!

Originally Posted by Hobbe74

+1
So true

Thanks, it's so frustrating to me.

Originally Posted by 3.0L

What a novel and refreshing thought!

I know, right?

Originally Posted by secono330ci

Finally someone gets it

I sure wish everyone else would get it!

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Haha its like ppl compare dick size in a locker room

Exactly, so annoying! As if your "size" or "BMW" defines everything about your existence, everything.

----

It's a little bit funny, little bit sad and a lot bit frustrating to see the comparisons and argueing still going on. Who has time for all of that nonsense?

I don't see how comparing a ZHP would make the comparison any better (and I'm a HUGE ZHP fan!), but perhaps because I don't see this as a comparison to begin with. This is just showing an evolution of BMW design, technology and power. Would a ZHP be better so the 235i would "win"?

WE'RE ALL WINNERS, OUR CARS ARE ALL AWESOME! E46 M3's, M235i's, ZHP's, 135i/135is, z4 M ALL AMAZING CARS!

Now how bad do we all hate Audi? Every Audi looks the same!

[SmittyM3]

After reading all the posts I had to reply...

You guys might think I'm crazy but I traded "down" this weekend. I sold my 2011 M3 Convertible and went back to a 2006 M3 E46 Convertible. It was much more engaging to drive, I love the handling dynamics and it allowed me to put away another 400 bucks a month for an M2 convertible when that day comes.