[Hobbe74]

Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP

OMG people!

This doesn't serve to show that one is "so much" better than the other, it just shows the evolution in BMW cars, period!

The most frustrating thing about being a BMW fan, for me, is seeing other owners feel the need to (or attempt to) belittle or compare each other's cars all the time. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM!

Let's belittle and compare how great our cars are compared to non-bimmers. PLEASE!

+1
So true

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP

OMG people!

This doesn't serve to show that one is "so much" better than the other, it just shows the evolution in BMW cars, period!

The most frustrating thing about being a BMW fan, for me, is seeing other owners feel the need to (or attempt to) belittle or compare each other's cars all the time. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM!

Let's belittle and compare how great our cars are compared to non-bimmers. PLEASE!

What a novel and refreshing thought!

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

I used to own a porsche 356 t6 b coupe - 1962. It made 60 bhp and rocked the sports car market for handling, aesthetic and power to weight in its day. Now a 1999 Corolla could beat it in the 1/4 and an S class Benz would murder it on lateral acceleration.

People don't buy vintage Porsche, Ferrari or, dare I say, M cars for their capability verse modern comparables.

This is exactly!

I love the new 235, I actually cant wait to drive the new M2. I spent two days with the F80 M3 on the track and I love the torque these cars have. These cars capability are so much better then my car in just about every aspect but at the end of the day I liked driving my M3 on the track more (although on the street man that torque is nice).

Lets face it every car gets better and better, economy cars can destroy the original E30 M3.

Its all about the driving experience that creates legends, not necessarily the stats.

[Tracyis300]

I think this is just another test to get E46 drivers to trade up?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by golf_234

People need to stop comparing the two. Why are you comparing the M235 to the E46 M3? You should be comparing it to the ZHP. The M235 is not even an M car. The E46 was great in its time. The M235 is also great in its time. Most people have sentimental attachment to their E46s that isn't developed yet with the brand new cars. The M235 is a very, very well orchestrated car in its time, as was the E46 M3. Really not much to not love about either of them. What I really don't get is that, I really would expect most E46 lovers to be absolutely enthralled with the 2. It is almost a spot on answer to those enthusiasts. I absolutely love what they are doing with it. It is near perfect , even within its time, as was the E46. The M2 is definitely going to be something to remember.
I mean really look at this design:





Beautiful. If you really break it down, it is hard to find much to change on it. It is actually pretty similar to the E46 in a lot of ways, just modernized to today's standards. I mean if you went to the dealership today and the e46 was on the lot, well first of all they wouldn't even be allowed to make it as regulations. have changed, and a lot of it would be fairly dated. When you look at the front of the car, it actually shares a lot of resemblance with the ZHP coupe, all things considered. Sometimes with the E46 fanatics I am left wondering, what is it you even really want? For them to make an exact clone of the E46 again? You do realize it would not even meet today's design standards, right? I mean I have had 3 E46s, loved them all, but if you really like them that much, snag up a couple as collector's items and stop bashing the new design which, in the 2 series case, is really quite remarkable. I mean , looking at the photo above, this car has the same instant classic appeal , in my opinion, that the E46 had, which is very difficult to instill.

Agree **1 million *** percent.

The complete fail here beings with autobuild comparing vehicles with different missions. As someone else mentioned earlier... the E46 M3 and M235 are almost apples and oranges.. The E46 M3 will compare to the M2... just as the 1M was a relatively good comparison model with the E46M3.

Indeed, the E46 330 Zhp is the car to compare with the M235i, and it's clear that M235i is a helluva car. Soon it will become the M240... and I wholeheartedly agree.. the 2 series is a very important model for BMW returning to be a company that builds great sports sedans that you don't have to break the bank to afford.

[golf_234]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Agree **1 million *** percent.

The complete fail here beings with autobuild comparing vehicles with different missions. As someone else mentioned earlier... the E46 M3 and M235 are almost apples and oranges.. The E46 M3 will compare to the M2... just as the 1M was a relatively good comparison model with the E46M3.

Indeed, the E46 330 Zhp is the car to compare with the M235i, and it's clear that M235i is a helluva car. Soon it will become the M240... and I wholeheartedly agree.. the 2 series is a very important model for BMW returning to be a company that builds great sports sedans that you don't have to break the bank to afford.

The M3 Adjuster has spoken, case is closed. Seriously though. When I first saw the 2 series on the lot next to 3's 4's, and all of the other models, its design definitely stood out to me in a good way. If anything all of the comparisons are a compliment to the 2er. I will agree the non M models nowadays are a bit softer, i.e. A zhp used to "feel" more like the M model, but that just is what it is. If someone is completely impatient for the M2, they can always install coilovers, tunes, LSD, exhaust, performance parts, or whatever else is desired on the 235 with ... going to go out on a limb here... really great results. People just like to complain. I am waiting for the M2 announcement now, and depending on how that looks will either be purchasing an M2 or M235i as my next car.

[secono330ci]

Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP

OMG people!

This doesn't serve to show that one is "so much" better than the other, it just shows the evolution in BMW cars, period!

The most frustrating thing about being a BMW fan, for me, is seeing other owners feel the need to (or attempt to) belittle or compare each other's cars all the time. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM!

Let's belittle and compare how great our cars are compared to non-bimmers. PLEASE!

Finally someone gets it

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP

OMG people!

This doesn't serve to show that one is "so much" better than the other, it just shows the evolution in BMW cars, period!

The most frustrating thing about being a BMW fan, for me, is seeing other owners feel the need to (or attempt to) belittle or compare each other's cars all the time. WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM!

Let's belittle and compare how great our cars are compared to non-bimmers. PLEASE!

Haha its like ppl compare dick size in a locker room

[boosted43]

The fact that so many of you sit here and defend one car vs the other makes me laugh. Why not just appreciate both cars and move on lol...

[Deep_Blue]

Originally Posted by golf_234

Dumb comments and invalid comparison. The M2 has not been released yet which would be the more accurate comparison. Your comment should read: "The M235i is a good car. The ZHP is iconic. I doubt that we'll be comparing anything to the M235i in 13 years"

Are we comparing anything to the ZHP still? People are just freaking out because the normal pedestrian cars are now faster or tied with the E46 M3. Get over it. Don't get me wrong I love E46s, I have had many of them, I am just not going to agree with these pointless comparisons.

Um, what?

Look, the E46 M3 defined the M3 for a huge portion of BMW enthusiasts. It just did. You don't get much more M than a high revving NA straight 6 and a manual. Its going to go down as an icon in the performance car world - price appreciation on some models (manual LSB, anyone?) is already starting and they aren't even 15 years old yet.

The M235i is a great car, but it just won't ever reach that status. It's sandwiched between the 1M and the M2. That doesn't mean it's not an awesome car in its own right. It's like my 335-great car and a blast to drive. It will thrash the hell out of my E30 M3, but you guess which of the two is an icon.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Completely disagree.

Have seen nothing out of BMW in many years that is as true to it's roots as the M235i. I'm not talking about shooting for the moon with an i8, a 5,000 pound GT/SUV or an $80k+ M4.

I'm talking about a reasonably-priced car that is sharp, sporty as all get out, moderately priced and a howl to drive.

Years from now we'll have the M division still building the no-compromise iron they build….at stratopheric prices. The I division will continue perfecting the modern new world of hybrids and the small BMW's will all share their FWD platform with 5 flavors of Mini Coopers (sniff!).

But we'll all look back and remember how this little M235i that vastly improved upon the 1 series before it, thumbed its nose at the venerable E46 M3, roasted it's competition in most comparisons, got nothing but stunning reviews by the press, was an absolute party to drive and didn't break the bank.

It may pale if the M2 gets everything right, but it might possibly be one of the statement BMW's of this entire decade.

Let me guess you have a M235i. yep you do.

[chris82]

Personally, I think this shows more of how good the E46 M3 is/was than vice versa. The car is 14 years old and it still keeps up with BMW's equally sized, M Performance version of the 235i. That's impressive.

[335igawnM3]

I found this video. It should answer questions about comparing it to the M3 CSL or ZHP variants of the E46. Its in english and european. To bad we cant get CSL in the states. I think the E46 M3 competition package is the closest we got to a CSL

Originally Posted by ALMOST///M

It doesn't matter, the M235i is the better all around car, not counting for depreciation and age lol. Besides it was never meant to be an all out M car it's the 2002 tii successor. And the track version will most likely beat the CSL on the track.

Originally Posted by golf_234

People need to stop comparing the two. Why are you comparing the M235 to the E46 M3? You should be comparing it to the ZHP. The M235 is not even an M car. The E46 was great in its time. The M235 is also great in its time. Most people have sentimental attachment to their E46s that isn't developed yet with the brand new cars. The M235 is a very, very well orchestrated car in its time, as was the E46 M3. Really not much to not love about either of them. What I really don't get is that, I really would expect most E46 lovers to be absolutely enthralled with the 2. It is almost a spot on answer to those enthusiasts. I absolutely love what they are doing with it. It is near perfect , even within its time, as was the E46. The M2 is definitely going to be something to remember....


....If you really break it down, it is hard to find much to change on it. It is actually pretty similar to the E46 in a lot of ways, just modernized to today's standards. I mean if you went to the dealership today and the e46 was on the lot, well first of all they wouldn't even be allowed to make it as regulations. have changed, and a lot of it would be fairly dated. When you look at the front of the car, it actually shares a lot of resemblance with the ZHP coupe, all things considered. Sometimes with the E46 fanatics I am left wondering, what is it you even really want? For them to make an exact clone of the E46 again? You do realize it would not even meet today's design standards, right? I mean I have had 3 E46s, loved them all, but if you really like them that much, snag up a couple as collector's items and stop bashing the new design which, in the 2 series case, is really quite remarkable. I mean , looking at the photo above, this car has the same instant classic appeal , in my opinion, that the E46 had, which is very difficult to instill.

Originally Posted by golf_234

Dumb comments and invalid comparison. The M2 has not been released yet which would be the more accurate comparison. Your comment should read: "The M235i is a good car. The ZHP is iconic. I doubt that we'll be comparing anything to the M235i in 13 years"

Are we comparing anything to the ZHP still? People are just freaking out because the normal pedestrian cars are now faster or tied with the E46 M3. Get over it. Don't get me wrong I love E46s, I have had many of them, I am just not going to agree with these pointless comparisons.

[chaswyck1]

I think the point of all this was mentioned in an earlier posting. What's truly remarkable is that an 11 year old car with 11 year old technology can more than hold it's own against the current state-of-the-art. THAT is the real story here and it is a real testament to the E46 M3.

[JetBlackE46]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Haha its like ppl compare dick size in a locker room

speak for yourself

[millifoo]

Originally Posted by scoale

In my opinion, M235 styling is not even in the same universe as e46. In fact, how many other circa 2001 cars hold up as well?

It's too early to tell. Give it a few years. I bought a 323i in 1998, and at the time people were lamenting it was the end of great BMW design, it was too soft and curvy, lost its edge, was a luxury boat now, yada yada. It wasn't until several years later that it landed the now lauded "classic design" status.

Here's a post from a long thread in alt.autos.bmw from 1998:

Subject: Anyone else disappointed how '99 3xx looks vs 91-98 3xx?
Saw new '99 323 today from behind and side and thought it is a new
Hyndai. New 3xx looks great on photos but the real thing does not look
as edgy as an older 3xx. Quite a disappointment.

and

I like the frontal view, but the rest of the thing is really quite
ordinary...looks like 99% of the rest of the crap out there, but apparantly,
that was the idea. The rear view is decidedly fugly.

and

When BMW sent me their magazine announcing the new 3, at first
glance, I thought I was looking at a Pontiac Bonneville. I heard a lot of
people say that the car looks better in person than in pictures, which is
true...but, by far, doesn't make up for the ordinary looks.

and

the whole E46 project is just a bunch of watered-down "market-driven"
compromises. maybe it should also come with a lipstick in the sunvisor that
matches your exterior paint scheme.

i'm all for babes driving cool "guy" cars, but i hate when i see guys driving
chick cars like preludes, and celicas. in either case, any guy in an E46 (until
M3 comes out) is firmly planted behind the wheel of "The Ultimate Chick
Machine".

and

Well, my 2 bits says.... the E46 looks like a pregnant car, the body bulging
out all over & I for one prefer the E36 as far as automotive sculpture goes.
The convertible is one of the cleanest designs I can think of.
That whole bloated car look,possibly revived by the Porsche 928 a
generation ago, just doesn't get it for me. The Jaguar mk 10 and the Fabulous
Hudson Hornet also come to mind... smaller sloping in greenhouse, whale like
from the window sill down... I know this is an exaggeration, but that is the
impression that I get from the E46.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by 335igawnM3

I found this video. It should answer questions about comparing it to the M3 CSL or ZHP variants of the E46. Its in english and european. To bad we cant get CSL in the states. I think the E46 M3 competition package is the closest we got to a CSL

It's in "English and European"?

What exactly does that mean?

[Shuttlegoose]

Everybody says they would take the e46 until money is on the line to make the purchase. If I knew I was going to shell out 20-25k for a good condition e46 M, I would think about leasing an m235 and saving a few bucks and having a faster and more comfortable car.

[golf_234]

Originally Posted by Shuttlegoose

Everybody says they would take the e46 until money is on the line to make the purchase. If I knew I was going to shell out 20-25k for a good condition e46 M, I would think about leasing an m235 and saving a few bucks and having a faster and more comfortable car.

+1000 all talk.

For the comparison obsessed, you really need to be comparing to this, not the M3, to be fair.

[The long haul]

It's impossible to compare the two. Hell someone said like comparing a 1M to a E46M. I own a 1M, I love it to pieces for what it is, it's a snappy, very quick, rowdy car.
However, it's nothing like a E46M. The E46M was precise and won it's battles with a high revving, smooth as silk I6 built from the ground up for that car. The 1M has loads of torque and a platform shared motor. It doesn't make it any less special, but it's not a E46 M3. Nothing ever will be. It truly is the pinnacle of what the M3 should be.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by The long haul

It's impossible to compare the two. Hell someone said like comparing a 1M to a E46M. I own a 1M, I love it to pieces for what it is, it's a snappy, very quick, rowdy car.
However, it's nothing like a E46M. The E46M was precise and won it's battles with a high revving, smooth as silk I6 built from the ground up for that car. The 1M has loads of torque and a platform shared motor. It doesn't make it any less special, but it's not a E46 M3. Nothing ever will be. It truly is the pinnacle of what the M3 should be.

Except e90M3 owners will tell you the e90 was the pinnacle of the M3 with the high revving V8, CF roof, etc. It took the e46's performance, sound, and experience to a whole new level.

[IB M]

M235i looking good; M4 in background.