F22 vs. BRZ as a drivers car..

BMW335iOn18s · 11-11-2014, 05:28 PM

Hey everyone,

So I know we're all crazy BMW enthusiasts here, but i've been thinking about this for a very long time. I know the 2 series has a much better interior, and it's more refined, but which is superior as a drivers car? Is the BRZ comfortable enough to daily drive in traffic over crappy roads? Does the M235i give enough feedback through the steering and chassis to really fun a fun car?

If the M235i is anything like the F30 335i and my father's 640i, I think i'd prefer the BRZ, to be honest. I don't really need that much power but I want a car that's going to feel like an extension of myself.

I've owned a 5 speed e36 328i and e46 330ci personally, and always have had access to my parents cars (E60 528, 2 E92 335s, now F10 528i and F13 640i).

My problem is that I think that the 3 series as we knew it ended with the E92. The 6 speed F30 I drove felt like a E39-sized F10. And i wasn't all that impressed at all with the level of engagement with the car. Sometimes i feel like the BMW i had in my mind no longer exists. My dads old M-sport E92 felt like baby M3. It was low on the ground, the steering was heavy, and the car felt like it was glued to the road.

The F30 felt like a RWD VW Passat. It was high off the ground (even with sport line) and the steering was light and numb. This was a 2014, not a 2012. I was not impressed in the slightest. The F10 is awesome for what it is, and the 640i even has heavy steering, but not in a good way. Although it's heavy, the lack of feedback makes it feel very artificial.

I recently test drove a base 2014 cayman 6 speed, and felt that the car was simply amazing. The steering had great weight, the clutch was short and full of feedback, and the shifter throw was short as hell! It felt just like an E46 M3...

Does the F22 feel like a modern e46 M3? or a small F10?

Thanks for your insight!
-Dave

BMW269 · 11-11-2014, 05:48 PM

The best thing is you test drive them. Both are best DD sporty cars on the market. I don't count FWD. The next step is Cayman or M3.

BMW335iOn18s · 11-11-2014, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levi

The best thing is you test drive them. Both are best DD sporty cars on the market. I don't count FWD. The next step is Cayman or M3.

I drove the FRS a year ago, and absolutely LOVED it!

Now, as far as test driving the 2 series - some background:

In my area, my dealer ONLY stocks xDrive models. RWD is nowhere to be found. Everytime my parents take their cars in for service, i always drive the Xdrive loaners and they drive NOTHING like a rwd BMW. They sit much higher, the steering is not communicative, and the experience isn't quite the same. I'm afraid that if I test drive an 228 or 235 xDrive, I won't like the car even though it's a false representation of what a 6MT RWD F22 would be. Maybe I'll test drive one on my trip to florida in december...

mfourn20 · 11-11-2014, 06:20 PM

This might be of some help:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/opp...andrewpcollins

BMW335iOn18s · 11-11-2014, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfourn20

This might be of some help:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/opp...andrewpcollins

Believe it or not, reading that article is what inspired me to create the thread. By his numbers system, the BMW wins. But he also says that he prefers driving the FR-S. It's not helpful at all!

golf4501 · 11-11-2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Hey everyone,

So I know we're all crazy BMW enthusiasts here, but i've been thinking about this for a very long time. I know the 2 series has a much better interior, and it's more refined, but which is superior as a drivers car? Is the BRZ comfortable enough to daily drive in traffic over crappy roads? Does the M235i give enough feedback through the steering and chassis to really fun a fun car?

If the M235i is anything like the F30 335i and my father's 640i, I think i'd prefer the BRZ, to be honest. I don't really need that much power but I want a car that's going to feel like an extension of myself.

I've owned a 5 speed e36 328i and e46 330ci personally, and always have had access to my parents cars (E60 528, 2 E92 335s, now F10 528i and F13 640i).

My problem is that I think that the 3 series as we knew it ended with the E92. The 6 speed F30 I drove felt like a E39-sized F10. And i wasn't all that impressed at all with the level of engagement with the car. Sometimes i feel like the BMW i had in my mind no longer exists. My dads old M-sport E92 felt like baby M3. It was low on the ground, the steering was heavy, and the car felt like it was glued to the road.

The F30 felt like a RWD VW Passat. It was high off the ground (even with sport line) and the steering was light and numb. This was a 2014, not a 2012. I was not impressed in the slightest. The F10 is awesome for what it is, and the 640i even has heavy steering, but not in a good way. Although it's heavy, the lack of feedback makes it feel very artificial.

I recently test drove a base 2014 cayman 6 speed, and felt that the car was simply amazing. The steering had great weight, the clutch was short and full of feedback, and the shifter throw was short as hell! It felt just like an E46 M3...

Does the F22 feel like a modern e46 M3? or a small F10?

Thanks for your insight!
-Dave

I had a 5 speed 330ci, and an automatic E92 335. To me my 6 speed 235 feels like my E46, but with the HP of my 335. In other words, the best of both worlds. It's what I hope for when I ordered it ( I got it at the end of March, so other than the program car, it was the 1st one my dealer had).

I have no doubt in my mind I ordered the correct car. I was going to get a M sport F30 435 before they announced this, and it's just too big and bloated in my opinion. I have a smile on my face every time I walk up to my car to go somewhere, and that's a good thing!

mfourn20 · 11-11-2014, 06:37 PM

He says cross shopping is unlikely....I cross shopped the 228 with the BRZ.

I didn't end up test driving the BRZ though...I was convinced it didn't have enough power. On a track I bet it's wonderful. But likely a little dull on the highway...I know the lack of power/torque would have bothered me.

I went with a 228 M Sport, and it gets me very illegal very quickly..I have under 2000 miles on it...and I already want more power. I don't even drive that fast but it sure is fun to just roll onto the throttle. I came from a Mazda3, at first the 2 series felt larger than it, but I quickly adjusted now I'm in love.

Agree with the above too. This car puts a smile on my face every time I drive and look at it. Just today my boss said damn that is a good looking car you have!

pikcachu · 11-11-2014, 06:47 PM

the BRZ it's really nice for what it is.... quite fun for 25K.... now it has no torque and not a lot of power so if you want to go somewhere better be at 5krpm already....

It might feel good on the track but again it's not fast.... the M235 would fly away from the BRZs on the track.... only thing that was keeping up was a 14' Mustang GT with 420hp

I think the BRZ might be fun for the first months but then might get boring with the lack of torque/power... that's my feeling

Scubadriver · 11-11-2014, 09:21 PM

I should be able to give you a very good head to head comparison in about a week. I've been driving a BRZ for a bit over a year. My M235i should be here in a week.

I like the BRZ a lot, but a few things led to the new car purchase--lack of torque, road noise/poor stereo and stiff suspension. I'll qualify the last one in saying I love how it handles, and I don't mind the harshness of the ride. I do however feel embarrassed when I have a passenger in the car, particularly a female who is less of a car enthusiast.

I drove the 135i a lot but couldn't get there on the looks. I'm expecting the 235 will be just about perfect, especially with the adjustable suspension. It will certainly take care of the torque issue.

For reference, the cars before the BRZ were a 2004 WRX and a 2012 G37 Coupe.

Year's_End · 11-11-2014, 09:44 PM

OP, you should really do yourself a favor and test drive the two.

I drove an FRS with a 6MT back when the GT86 twins came out (*I was technically looking for a BRZ but all of the local dealers refused to let people drive them without buying back then).

I've also driven an M235i, although it had the ZF8 instead of 6MT. That transmission is glorious.

They're both really different on the road. If you have any specific questions feel free to fire away.

BMW269 · 11-12-2014, 05:07 AM

The main difference between both is that F22 is a complete package, BRZ is a base package that you can then adjust to your needs. Must like tuning and working on cars however.

Kgolf31 · 11-12-2014, 08:00 AM

Driving a 2 Series is comparable to driving a small F30.

I know I'm biased, but my E82 drives like my old E46 from way back in the day.

ddvette9 · 11-12-2014, 02:50 PM

I own a 2013 FRS, which is basically the same car as the BRZ (a tiny difference in the suspension), and I can't wait to get rid of it for a 2 series.

For the first year, the FRS was fine, but now it has gotten louder (interior materials wise) and is just harsh and hurts my back and neck to daily drive.

I would only buy again with the intention of using it as a track or weekend car only. This car cannot be driven by any average size male for more than a year or two. It is uncomfortable, cheap and it hurts.

Now, on to the good, it's the closet thing to a go cart I have ever driven. The steering feels so heavy even at low speeds and with the seat positioned at its lowest setting, you are basically sitting on the ground. Its a fabulous chassis and will go down in history as a cult classic and one of the best driver's cars of all time.

But Scion (Toyota) and Subaru make cars under 30k for a reason, they are cheaply built and it will turn into a teeny bopper car in the next 2 years when they can be picked up used for under 15k.

e30if · 11-12-2014, 02:50 PM

I tested a BRZ before making a decision on a car and ended up ordering a 228i for a couple reasons. Most obvious is the power difference. That low end torque you get out of the 228, and even more from the 235, makes a huge difference in everyday driving. Just makes the car more fun imo. Plus having the grunt to make fast highway passes is a huge plus around here. The other sticking point for me on the BRZ was the interior, obviously the BMW is more expensive and higher quality but the proportions of the interior on the 2's just feels better. The BRZ is really cramped to me and was a bit tough to see out of in my driving position.

That said the BRZ controls felt great, nice steering wheel, shifts nicely and a very good clutch. It all comes down to personal preference, after 10 years of driving an e30 318is I was just ready for something with a bit more power. If I want that more raw feel I can always hop back in my e30 and have some fun.

Oh and on the fun front I slapped some BFG Rivals on the 228 and did autocross with it this summer, seriously fun car to just throw around. Not as much feedback as my e30 for obvious reasons but still provides more than enough to know what the car is doing at any given time. Really easy to feel when the tires are starting to break loose, etc.

W/// · 11-12-2014, 03:05 PM

I didn't like the BRZ I test drove. There were great things about it, such as handling, shifter and seats. But my god it was way too slow. Keep in mind, I DD a 97 4Runner with 300k miles, so it's not like I require all my cars to do 0-60 in 4 seconds.

I nearly got run over by a truck trying to merge on the highway. I'm not saying the car needs to have a giant engine in it, but at the very least have the same power as an S2000 (which came out over a decade ago!). The power was just not acceptable to me.

P.S. Also know a guy locally that works at a Toyota dealership and he says he has to work on that engine all too often

Amessforone · 11-12-2014, 03:54 PM

I considered the BRZ/FRS prior to my experience with Bmw. At the time I couldn't justify the overall package of the car over a Honda Civic Si (please don't flame). The handling is fantastic, but it felt like it sat between the Mazda Miata and the Honda S2000. The 228i shines with a healthy amount of torque and the overall package is far superior. I don't like to bring the m235 into the mix because it is far more extreme and unfair to compare it to a mid 25k car.

John2002 · 11-12-2014, 04:01 PM

I actually wrote a little review last week (that I'll bump, so you can check it out) that might help you. I owned a BRZ for over 2 years. I pre-ordered one and was super excited when the twins came out. I agree with many of the things being said in this thread. I felt the BRZ was a very hard car to live with everyday, and that it wasn't as quick as it needed to be, but also it handles corners like no car I've owned. That being said I think a lot of what made it a labor to drive it also what made it good. It's super raw, and thus beats you up a bit unless the roads are smooth as glass. So, for me it comes down to personality and maybe age. If you're okay with a harsh but very connected/engaging experience the BRZ might be the car for you. However, if you want a very livable car that can be sporty and fun when pushed, the 228 is probably better for you. All that being said, take a look at the forums if you're thinking about a BRZ. The sheer volume of people with problems is pretty amazing—don't expect to have the reliability you'd assume a new car would have.

whoosh · 11-12-2014, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Is the BRZ comfortable enough to daily drive in traffic over crappy roads? Does the M235i give enough feedback through the steering and chassis to really fun a fun car?
...

I recently test drove a base 2014 cayman 6 speed, and felt that the car was simply amazing. The steering had great weight, the clutch was short and full of feedback, and the shifter throw was short as hell! It felt just like an E46 M3...

Just to reply to your point about the E92 vs F30 and Cayman...

I took my 335is to the track and found it to be heavy and not well damped at all when pushed on track. I got out of that car in favor of an '06 Cayman S, which was a night and day difference but wasn't practical for winter driving (neither was the is but that's another topic).

The M235i definitely isn't a Cayman, especially with xDrive, but it returns the same smiles per mile factor as my Cayman S did when exploiting a deserted Colorado mountain or country road. IMO the M235i is a more engaging and fun car to drive out on the road than my 335is but not as pure as the Cayman, which by extension of your comparison means not an E46 M3 either.

For all the reasons already stated above, I wouldn't choose a BRZ as a daily driver unless you are intent on taking the car on track quite often. If the primary purpose of the car is going to be daily driver, then the M235i is the way to go.

BMW335iOn18s · 11-12-2014, 04:57 PM

Thank you so much for all of your feedback! I feel like you guys really understand where I'm coming from, and I could absolutely see myself feeling annoyed with the BRZ after the honeymoon phase. I know that deep down, I am a BMW die-hard, and I'll hate myself everytime a M-sport 228i or M235i pulls up next to me at a traffic light. I guess I know what i'll be leaving a deposit for come late January

BMW335iOn18s · 11-21-2014, 06:35 PM

Finally got a chance to test drive a 6MT M235i. I don't think the two cars can even be compared anymore. I think the BMW is so so so much more car for the money. Even the 228i. Although the BRZ had a heavier clutch, the level of feedback was the same. The F22 surpassed the BRZ in every other way as well. The BRZ is a great car, but it's not worth leasing. Maybe if you're buying it for 10-15k less than a 228i it makes sense. But with the same monthly payment, you'd regret getting a BRZ over a 228i.

huma · 11-21-2014, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Finally got a chance to test drive a 6MT M235i. I don't think the two cars can even be compared anymore. I think the BMW is so so so much more car for the money. Even the 228i. Although the BRZ had a heavier clutch, the level of feedback was the same. The F22 surpassed the BRZ in every other way as well. The BRZ is a great car, but it's not worth leasing. Maybe if you're buying it for 10-15k less than a 228i it makes sense. But with the same monthly payment, you'd regret getting a BRZ over a 228i.

Good decision. I had a 2013 BRZ and was going to stray you away from it towards the BMW.

Scubadriver · 11-21-2014, 08:53 PM

I've had my M235i for just three days. So far it's not been able to make me smile like the BRZ. Granted, I've not pushed the M235i yet like I have the BRZ, but I don't think it will ever match the kart-like cornering or perfectly-communicated traction limits that the BRZ had.

That said, the 2 is a far nicer, more civilized, more comfortable, more powerful, more overall enjoyable car. It's just not as fun...

11-11-2014, 05:28 PM	#1
BMW335iOn18s Resident BMW Fanboy 259 Rep 866 Posts Drives: F82 CS SMB Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA iTrader: (0)	F22 vs. BRZ as a drivers car.. Hey everyone, So I know we're all crazy BMW enthusiasts here, but i've been thinking about this for a very long time. I know the 2 series has a much better interior, and it's more refined, but which is superior as a drivers car? Is the BRZ comfortable enough to daily drive in traffic over crappy roads? Does the M235i give enough feedback through the steering and chassis to really fun a fun car? If the M235i is anything like the F30 335i and my father's 640i, I think i'd prefer the BRZ, to be honest. I don't really need that much power but I want a car that's going to feel like an extension of myself. I've owned a 5 speed e36 328i and e46 330ci personally, and always have had access to my parents cars (E60 528, 2 E92 335s, now F10 528i and F13 640i). My problem is that I think that the 3 series as we knew it ended with the E92. The 6 speed F30 I drove felt like a E39-sized F10. And i wasn't all that impressed at all with the level of engagement with the car. Sometimes i feel like the BMW i had in my mind no longer exists. My dads old M-sport E92 felt like baby M3. It was low on the ground, the steering was heavy, and the car felt like it was glued to the road. The F30 felt like a RWD VW Passat. It was high off the ground (even with sport line) and the steering was light and numb. This was a 2014, not a 2012. I was not impressed in the slightest. The F10 is awesome for what it is, and the 640i even has heavy steering, but not in a good way. Although it's heavy, the lack of feedback makes it feel very artificial. I recently test drove a base 2014 cayman 6 speed, and felt that the car was simply amazing. The steering had great weight, the clutch was short and full of feedback, and the shifter throw was short as hell! It felt just like an E46 M3... Does the F22 feel like a modern e46 M3? or a small F10? Thanks for your insight! -Dave __________________ Current: '20 F82 M4cs SMB / '13 640i M-Sport Carbon Black Past: F30 330xi Luxury Line / F22 M235i 6MT / E92 335i / E46 330ci / E36 328i 5MT
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11-11-2014, 05:48 PM	#2
BMW269 Brigadier General 435 Rep 3,888 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	The best thing is you test drive them. Both are best DD sporty cars on the market. I don't count FWD. The next step is Cayman or M3.
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11-11-2014, 06:20 PM	#4
mfourn20 First Lieutenant 52 Rep 321 Posts Drives: 228i M Sport Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Warwick, RI USA iTrader: (0)	This might be of some help: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/opp...andrewpcollins
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11-11-2014, 06:37 PM	#7
mfourn20 First Lieutenant 52 Rep 321 Posts Drives: 228i M Sport Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Warwick, RI USA iTrader: (0)	He says cross shopping is unlikely....I cross shopped the 228 with the BRZ. I didn't end up test driving the BRZ though...I was convinced it didn't have enough power. On a track I bet it's wonderful. But likely a little dull on the highway...I know the lack of power/torque would have bothered me. I went with a 228 M Sport, and it gets me very illegal very quickly..I have under 2000 miles on it...and I already want more power. I don't even drive that fast but it sure is fun to just roll onto the throttle. I came from a Mazda3, at first the 2 series felt larger than it, but I quickly adjusted now I'm in love. Agree with the above too. This car puts a smile on my face every time I drive and look at it. Just today my boss said damn that is a good looking car you have!
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11-11-2014, 06:47 PM	#8
pikcachu Major General 1399 Rep 5,262 Posts Drives: M235i (F22 Red angel) Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: undisclosed iTrader: (1)	the BRZ it's really nice for what it is.... quite fun for 25K.... now it has no torque and not a lot of power so if you want to go somewhere better be at 5krpm already.... It might feel good on the track but again it's not fast.... the M235 would fly away from the BRZs on the track.... only thing that was keeping up was a 14' Mustang GT with 420hp I think the BRZ might be fun for the first months but then might get boring with the lack of torque/power... that's my feeling
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11-11-2014, 09:21 PM	#9
Scubadriver Private 31 Rep 86 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0)	I should be able to give you a very good head to head comparison in about a week. I've been driving a BRZ for a bit over a year. My M235i should be here in a week. I like the BRZ a lot, but a few things led to the new car purchase--lack of torque, road noise/poor stereo and stiff suspension. I'll qualify the last one in saying I love how it handles, and I don't mind the harshness of the ride. I do however feel embarrassed when I have a passenger in the car, particularly a female who is less of a car enthusiast. I drove the 135i a lot but couldn't get there on the looks. I'm expecting the 235 will be just about perfect, especially with the adjustable suspension. It will certainly take care of the torque issue. For reference, the cars before the BRZ were a 2004 WRX and a 2012 G37 Coupe.
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11-11-2014, 09:44 PM	#10
Year's_End Lieutenant General 1138 Rep 12,444 Posts Drives: 2020 Shelby GT350 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	OP, you should really do yourself a favor and test drive the two. I drove an FRS with a 6MT back when the GT86 twins came out (*I was technically looking for a BRZ but all of the local dealers refused to let people drive them without buying back then). I've also driven an M235i, although it had the ZF8 instead of 6MT. That transmission is glorious. They're both really different on the road. If you have any specific questions feel free to fire away. __________________ Past: '08 E92 335i\|ZPP\|ZSP\|6AT Past: '15 Mustang GT\|401A\|PP\|6MT Current: '20 Shelby GT350\|6MT
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11-12-2014, 05:07 AM	#11
BMW269 Brigadier General 435 Rep 3,888 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	The main difference between both is that F22 is a complete package, BRZ is a base package that you can then adjust to your needs. Must like tuning and working on cars however.
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11-12-2014, 08:00 AM	#12
Kgolf31 Brigadier General 459 Rep 4,531 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ohio iTrader: (4)	Driving a 2 Series is comparable to driving a small F30. I know I'm biased, but my E82 drives like my old E46 from way back in the day.
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11-12-2014, 02:50 PM	#13
ddvette9 New Member 3 Rep 13 Posts Drives: 2013 FRS Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	I own a 2013 FRS, which is basically the same car as the BRZ (a tiny difference in the suspension), and I can't wait to get rid of it for a 2 series. For the first year, the FRS was fine, but now it has gotten louder (interior materials wise) and is just harsh and hurts my back and neck to daily drive. I would only buy again with the intention of using it as a track or weekend car only. This car cannot be driven by any average size male for more than a year or two. It is uncomfortable, cheap and it hurts. Now, on to the good, it's the closet thing to a go cart I have ever driven. The steering feels so heavy even at low speeds and with the seat positioned at its lowest setting, you are basically sitting on the ground. Its a fabulous chassis and will go down in history as a cult classic and one of the best driver's cars of all time. But Scion (Toyota) and Subaru make cars under 30k for a reason, they are cheaply built and it will turn into a teeny bopper car in the next 2 years when they can be picked up used for under 15k.
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11-12-2014, 02:50 PM	#14
e30if Enlisted Member 3 Rep 47 Posts Drives: 1991 318is, 2010 M3 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Redmond, WA iTrader: (0)	I tested a BRZ before making a decision on a car and ended up ordering a 228i for a couple reasons. Most obvious is the power difference. That low end torque you get out of the 228, and even more from the 235, makes a huge difference in everyday driving. Just makes the car more fun imo. Plus having the grunt to make fast highway passes is a huge plus around here. The other sticking point for me on the BRZ was the interior, obviously the BMW is more expensive and higher quality but the proportions of the interior on the 2's just feels better. The BRZ is really cramped to me and was a bit tough to see out of in my driving position. That said the BRZ controls felt great, nice steering wheel, shifts nicely and a very good clutch. It all comes down to personal preference, after 10 years of driving an e30 318is I was just ready for something with a bit more power. If I want that more raw feel I can always hop back in my e30 and have some fun. Oh and on the fun front I slapped some BFG Rivals on the 228 and did autocross with it this summer, seriously fun car to just throw around. Not as much feedback as my e30 for obvious reasons but still provides more than enough to know what the car is doing at any given time. Really easy to feel when the tires are starting to break loose, etc.
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11-12-2014, 03:05 PM	#15
W/// Lieutenant General 7485 Rep 12,307 Posts Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: SC iTrader: (13)	I didn't like the BRZ I test drove. There were great things about it, such as handling, shifter and seats. But my god it was way too slow. Keep in mind, I DD a 97 4Runner with 300k miles, so it's not like I require all my cars to do 0-60 in 4 seconds. I nearly got run over by a truck trying to merge on the highway. I'm not saying the car needs to have a giant engine in it, but at the very least have the same power as an S2000 (which came out over a decade ago!). The power was just not acceptable to me. P.S. Also know a guy locally that works at a Toyota dealership and he says he has to work on that engine all too often __________________ Current: 16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT 08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT 07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT 99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
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11-12-2014, 03:54 PM	#16
Amessforone Private 27 Rep 82 Posts Drives: 228i Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	I considered the BRZ/FRS prior to my experience with Bmw. At the time I couldn't justify the overall package of the car over a Honda Civic Si (please don't flame). The handling is fantastic, but it felt like it sat between the Mazda Miata and the Honda S2000. The 228i shines with a healthy amount of torque and the overall package is far superior. I don't like to bring the m235 into the mix because it is far more extreme and unfair to compare it to a mid 25k car.
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11-12-2014, 04:01 PM	#17
John2002 New Member 9 Rep 12 Posts Drives: 2015 228 M-sport Track pkg. Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	I actually wrote a little review last week (that I'll bump, so you can check it out) that might help you. I owned a BRZ for over 2 years. I pre-ordered one and was super excited when the twins came out. I agree with many of the things being said in this thread. I felt the BRZ was a very hard car to live with everyday, and that it wasn't as quick as it needed to be, but also it handles corners like no car I've owned. That being said I think a lot of what made it a labor to drive it also what made it good. It's super raw, and thus beats you up a bit unless the roads are smooth as glass. So, for me it comes down to personality and maybe age. If you're okay with a harsh but very connected/engaging experience the BRZ might be the car for you. However, if you want a very livable car that can be sporty and fun when pushed, the 228 is probably better for you. All that being said, take a look at the forums if you're thinking about a BRZ. The sheer volume of people with problems is pretty amazing—don't expect to have the reliability you'd assume a new car would have.
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11-12-2014, 04:57 PM	#19
BMW335iOn18s Resident BMW Fanboy 259 Rep 866 Posts Drives: F82 CS SMB Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA iTrader: (0)	Thank you so much for all of your feedback! I feel like you guys really understand where I'm coming from, and I could absolutely see myself feeling annoyed with the BRZ after the honeymoon phase. I know that deep down, I am a BMW die-hard, and I'll hate myself everytime a M-sport 228i or M235i pulls up next to me at a traffic light. I guess I know what i'll be leaving a deposit for come late January __________________ Current: '20 F82 M4cs SMB / '13 640i M-Sport Carbon Black Past: F30 330xi Luxury Line / F22 M235i 6MT / E92 335i / E46 330ci / E36 328i 5MT
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11-21-2014, 06:35 PM	#20
BMW335iOn18s Resident BMW Fanboy 259 Rep 866 Posts Drives: F82 CS SMB Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA iTrader: (0)	Finally got a chance to test drive a 6MT M235i. I don't think the two cars can even be compared anymore. I think the BMW is so so so much more car for the money. Even the 228i. Although the BRZ had a heavier clutch, the level of feedback was the same. The F22 surpassed the BRZ in every other way as well. The BRZ is a great car, but it's not worth leasing. Maybe if you're buying it for 10-15k less than a 228i it makes sense. But with the same monthly payment, you'd regret getting a BRZ over a 228i. __________________ Current: '20 F82 M4cs SMB / '13 640i M-Sport Carbon Black Past: F30 330xi Luxury Line / F22 M235i 6MT / E92 335i / E46 330ci / E36 328i 5MT
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11-21-2014, 08:53 PM	#22
Scubadriver Private 31 Rep 86 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0)	I've had my M235i for just three days. So far it's not been able to make me smile like the BRZ. Granted, I've not pushed the M235i yet like I have the BRZ, but I don't think it will ever match the kart-like cornering or perfectly-communicated traction limits that the BRZ had. That said, the 2 is a far nicer, more civilized, more comfortable, more powerful, more overall enjoyable car. It's just not as fun...
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