[plien69]

Originally Posted by gregharp

I drove sticks for 14 years before I bought an E46 M3 with SMGII that I owned for 12 years. I just switched to the ZF8 sport auto in the M235i, and I am NOT looking back! It's awesome!

I only ever used automated mode in the M3 when I had to resort to driving with one hand (e.g. needing to answer the phone, forgot my BT headset). I hated it. It was a necessary evil. Otherwise I drove using the stick and paddles full time in sequential mode. That was fun but occasionally work (e.g. in traffic).

The SMGII is faster than most people rowing their own gears. But in my experience, under most normal circumstances the sport auto shifts even faster. It's definitely faster than any manual gear change.

I fully expected that I would drive the M235i auto in manual most of the time. When I want to have fun that's exactly what I do. However, whenever I am commuting, stuck in traffic, or just cruising, I leave it in D. If I really want to downshift manually without popping the kick down button (which I have stayed away from so far since I'm still in the break-in) I can grab a paddle.

The car is the ultimate being adaptive to your mood. You can cruise with almost econobox efficiency or you can thrash it and have fun. You can change your mind on a moment's notice.

I'm in a very similar boat. 15 years driving sticks (Acura and an E36), before going to an SMGII E46 M3, which I drove in full manual mode 99.9% of the time.

Then onto an '08 135 with 6-speed Step. Again, drove in manual mode with paddles 95% of the time.

With the 8-spd ZF Auto in the M235i, I find that I'm in full D mode more than 50% of the time. Why?

8 speeds is a lot. Gear ratios are closely spaced, and there's a lot of shifting, made worse by the fact that the 235 will put the transmission in 1st gear when you come to a stop in manual shifting mode, whereas in the 135i the transmission stayed in second at a full stop.

So in normal daily driving, I had to work within about a 4-5 gear range in the 135i (2nd through 5th/6th), where as in the M235i, I have to deal with a 7-8 gear range.

Of course, if I'm driving spiritedly, it's full manual all the way in the M235i.

[golf_234]

Wow ! awesome reviews, sounds like a win-win.

[williewonkerz]

Originally Posted by DMM235i

First auto that I chose to buy. Have always owned stick for performance cars. Drag racing, autocross, you name it I would pick stick every time.

This auto however...better at shifting than I ever could be. It downshifts in a turn, downshifts when you brake, shifts when I tell it to shift with the paddles and does so without any waste of time. It's nearly DCT instant.

Then, when I'm stuck in traffic, it behaves very civilized. It really has become the best of both worlds and I can't find a fault with it. Usually, I hate automatics because they remove the driver from the equation. Not with this one...

I'm EXACTLY the same. I love manuals, but this car with this transmission is VERY good.

The only catch so far is that I've always loved the manual in the winter. We will see how this goes.

BMW manuals NEED a CDV delete, too

[epic]

I <3 my ZF8. Brilliant transmission. I've fooled quite a few people saying it's a DCT - and they own DCTs and went along with it. That says a lot.

It makes me upset my C6 doesn't have one.

[golf_234]

Originally Posted by epic

I <3 my ZF8. Brilliant transmission. I've fooled quite a few people saying it's a DCT - and they own DCTs and went along with it. That says a lot.

It makes me upset my C6 doesn't have one.

That is definitely something that gets me. Like, the manual is cool, but at the same cost, you are getting more bang for your buck with pretty insane technology on that ZF transmission.

[Cyberdemon]

The two reasons I would go for the manual would be:

1 - Joy
2 - Long Term Reliability/Maintenance costs. If you plan on owning the car for a very long time the manual will likely be cheaper to service and keep running vs any auto (and especially vs a M DCT)

[jhbjrpdx]

I was so happy tossing my Mini S around with it's 6MT. When it came to my F22, I agonized over the transmission. Kept hearing so many good things about the ZF8. Finally came down to how I use the car. It's my daily driver. Lots of traffic. I take it out to play on the backroads on weekends and the occasional track day.

I took the leap to the ZF8 and am delighted I did. It kicks ass in Sport Plus tapping on the paddles and in Sport finds the maximum gear shift when I want it. Around town, I forget about it and play with the Tech Package goodies and relax.

The shift times in manual mode are amazing. Flick a finger and grab some RPM's. Are there times I forget and reach for the a shifter and feel my left foot getting antsy? Sure. But not enough to think I made a bad call. If flappy paddles are good enough for F1 they are fine by me.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

The two reasons I would go for the manual would be:

1 - Joy
2 - Long Term Reliability/Maintenance costs. If you plan on owning the car for a very long time the manual will likely be cheaper to service and keep running vs any auto (and especially vs a M DCT)

Joy can boil down to your knee or foot. Just wait until you get a few miles under your belt.

Having said that, I've owned a few automatics and they all went well beyond 100k miles with nothing more than a fluid change. And never a failure.

But manuals? Jeez, I've done a butt-load of clutch disc replacements, plus throw out bearings, etc.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Joy can boil down to your knee or foot. Just wait until you get a few miles under your belt.

Having said that, I've owned a few automatics and they all went well beyond 100k miles with nothing more than a fluid change. And never a failure.

But manuals? Jeez, I've done a butt-load of clutch disc replacements, plus throw out bearings, etc.

+1 for issues with both. No solutions is perfect or cost free at all.

[numbersguy]

I have the ZF in my 535i. It is a wonderful tranny that shifts better than any human. After playing with the paddles for the first couple of days it has been left in auto ever since. The ratios are so close that using the paddles feels stupid and useless, like you are getting in the car's way.

When I turn this car in for a 235 I will get the 6 speed. While the ZF is faster around a track the manual will be better for real world fun. Looking at the gear chart, second gear will make you illegal on surface streets and third will do the same on the freeway. There's not much shifting needed in the real world with a motor that has so much torque down low and loves to rev up high. I've rowed a 325i so I know what it's like to hold a tighter power band. Looking forward to a broad power band with long windouts.

[Oyinko]

Go for the Zf8. It's my first auto transmission and I love it. The shifts are fast and really smooth which make your life easier in traffic. Then if you want to have some fun, put the transmission in sport and/or manual and you have a great manual transmission.

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by numbersguy

Looking at the gear chart, second gear will make you illegal on surface streets and third will do the same on the freeway. There's not much shifting needed in the real world with a motor that has so much torque down low and loves to rev up high. I've rowed a 325i so I know what it's like to hold a tighter power band. Looking forward to a broad power band with long windouts.

+1. Been driving mine since March and it's hard to keep the damn thing under 70 km/h in town (max is 50). You will shift though. Oh yes.

[golf_234]

I'm thinking it's time for the 8 speed. Can't ignore how cool and versatile the technology is.

[Researcher]

Awesome is the name for the 8AT. It comes down to personal preference. Never owned an AT sports car.... This AT is the first one and will not go back to a manual; that's how good it is! And makes the car sooo much faster!

[Gate7]

my sig says it all

[pikcachu]

REALly fast men use 2

[Diver]

Despite all you hear in these forums about manual transmissions, BMW reports the take rate is in the low single digits. I have driven various 4 cylinder models with the 8 speed and think it is a competent transmission lacking the quirks of the DCT in my 135i. BMW has enough confidence in the 8 speed to use it throughout the line and supply M235i press cars with it.

[GMe90]

Don't even think about going to an auto from a manual. You will regret your decision within 2 weeks.

[RPM90]

lots of info so I don't need to add anything about how great of an automatic the ZF 8spd is.
I can offer this. I am a manual driver who tried the new AT in the 3 series and was amazed at how well it works. I read the tech info and was very impressed at what ZF did with this transmission.
So I got my 335i Msport with the Sport AT option offered in the F30 as it adds the sport paddles and a different shift lever with a leather boot.
I decided to give this AT a real test drive by owning it.
It's been 2 years now and I am still amazed at how fast and smooth this trans is.
In my case my AT has an annoying performance issue where I can't get smooth shifts in manual mode in the first 2 shifts when I am in sport driver mode. But that's just in my particular car. BMW is looking into it.

Would I get the AT again over the MT?
Maybe, maybe not.
Not because it sucks or lacks performance, but because I do actually prefer to move a shift lever around and put the trans directly into the exact gear I want when I want it.
And I like to control the clutch engagement as I choose.
It's simply a matter of preference for what makes it more fun to drive, for me.
There is still a possibility I may get the AT if I go with the M235i, I really have to try it out in that car to feel if it's any different, though I don't see how it would be.
Still I'll give it a try.

As to which trans should you or anyone get, that depends on what you like and how it feels to you.
With both the AT and MT options being this good now many of the old arguments don't hold up anymore.
It used to be that to get the fastest acceleration it was MT, to get the best MPG again MT.
That is no longer true, and it's now the opposite. So it simply comes down to, how do you prefer to operate your car?
And that's best answered by each person and their preference.

After owning this AT for 2 years I can completely understand why someone would choose the AT over the MT, and why someone would choose the MT over the AT.
The arguments that ensue in this debate are more akin to convincing someone that vanilla is better flavor than chocolate or strawberry ice creams.
Hey, it's ice cream so it's all good.
Which trans?
Pick your favored flavor cause you're the one who will get to enjoy it.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by Killramos

It's fantastic, one of the reasons we got the car is my fianc couldn't drive my GTI so for this car automatic was required (it was also an at cost option in Canada...).

That being said, I really like it. Much more comfortable to drive in traffic. The 8 speeds are great for gas consumption. Shifts are good and smooth depending on which setting the tranny is in.

However the car works great when driven hard. Shifts are lighting (way faster than I could ever shift a manual). And the manual mode is perfect. Beat manual-automatic I have ever tried. SMGIII ruined my experience of the v10 M6. Especially side by side with this car.

The only gripe I have is it's a bit harder to be a Holligan in (saving me from myself haha). And with 8 gears it really runs through the gears quite quickly which feels slightly odd.

In short don't worry it's a great transmission and feels 95% of the way to a full on dct.

"Shifts are lightning..."
BOOM. I think that's the best argument for the 8AT from the performance angle.
Shifts faster than humanly possible with the 6MT. Zero mis-shifts.
And of course there's Eco Pro mode to eke out a few more mpg.

But there's nothing like the feeling of oneness with the machine as you snick through the gears yourself. You're more deeply connected. You're not just asking the car to shift. You're blipping the throttle and perfectly matching revs yourself and engaging the next gear in the moment. It's zen-like.

[mrcheezle19]

What's hard is I already the e30 as my weekend fun car, but I feel every BMW must have a manual trans and feel like I'm going against the rules by getting the auto. It is nice to just hop in and go sometimes without having to worry about shifting, especially out here in CA traffic. I just can't seem to decide. I know the auto would be fun when I want to get on it, but then the manual is just so right. ughh

[pruettfan]

I always love the manual versus auto or dct debate that comes up any time you talk about an auto or dct. I really don't think you can go wrong either way, BMW came up with two great options that both deliver excellent driving experiences. There will always be guys who preach MT is the only way to go but I suspect in 5-8 years you won't be able to get a traditional manual transmission in most cars (heck that is the case already for many) so we all have to be open to options that provide great performance.