[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I always love the manual versus auto or dct debate that comes up any time you talk about an auto or dct. I really don't think you can go wrong either way, BMW came up with two great options that both deliver excellent driving experiences. There will always be guys who preach MT is the only way to go but I suspect in 5-8 years you won't be able to get a traditional manual transmission in most cars (heck that is the case already for many) so we all have to be open to options that provide great performance.

And, with two sides to every issue, this is the perfect reason to buy a manual while you can and take r-e-a-l-l-y good care of it!!

[bladeomatic]

It all depends. Nothing more fun that blasting down a country road while rowing gears, but I got the AT for many good reasons:

-I drive in LA's notorious gridlock. No fun punching a clutch pedal 100x over 3 miles.
-I've got a gimpy left knee. See above
-The AT is fantastic. Not a DCT but the closest thing. In fact it shifts way better then the Benz CLA45 AMG, which is a DCT. Nice crisp shifts. Solid "chunk" when it engages under sporty settings.
-Can jump on the paddles anytime I want to. Love how it farts on downshifts.
-The car has so many distinct personalities depending on the combination of settings (Comfort vs sport mode, Shifter in Drive vs. Sport/Manual).
-Sorry if I'm not a true "driver" but there's times I like to drink a cup of coffee while I'm driving through a neighborhood and I don't want to have to attend to each gear shift.
-The AT is quicker and gets better gas mileage.

In short I CAN shift when I want to…but I don't *have* to if I don't want to.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Best automatic transmission I have ever had. It's truly amazing. Shifts are so fast in Sport and so smooth in Eco.
Love it!

[dwvcfii]

The decision is pretty simple these days IMO.

If you ever plan to drive the car on a track get the manual because you need the control over the shifts (when to shift, how aggressive to make the shift, etc.).

If you prefer to maintain the car yourself get the manual as they are much easier to deal with as fluid changes are trivial. Not so with the auto.

Long term ownership costs will be approximately the same. The wet clutches in autos wear out (~150K miles is on borrowed time), and manuals can go the same distance between clutch changes if you rev match and avoid drag racing. A buddy has 165K on his original E39 clutch and he doesn't drive with a skirt on.

For most people, the choice is a matter of preference and the type of driving you do. I think it's safe to say that most of the old auto vs. manual arguments no longer apply.

[GMe90]

The manual transmission is more fun to drive, and that's the whole point of buying a 2 series: fun. If you want to drive a big SUV or a soccer mom van, sure, buy an automatic. But if the goal is to be connected to the machine as much as possible, manual is the best way to go. Now if you live in a huge city, have a bum knee, or have a wife who can't drive a stick, I understand getting an automatic.

[Researcher]

It is entirely a matter of preference. Audiophiles say that vinyls sound better than CD too. Both are great cars. The AT8 converts the car into a multiple personality and flexible beast. The 6MT gives you the air of a traditional car. If you are focused on best repeatable speed and flexibility go for the AT; if you like rowing and playing with the clutch then go for the MT. Both are great. There is no right or wrongs here.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by dwvcfii

Long term ownership costs will be approximately the same. The wet clutches in autos wear out (~150K miles is on borrowed time), and manuals can go the same distance between clutch changes if you rev match and avoid drag racing. A buddy has 165K on his original E39 clutch and he doesn't drive with a skirt on.

For most people, the choice is a matter of preference and the type of driving you do. I think it's safe to say that most of the old auto vs. manual arguments no longer apply.

This true. But, I've never kept a car long enough to reach 150,000 miles. And that is not to say I turn them over quickly. I generally put 75,000 on a car in about 10 years. The 2004 Mazda RX-8 I traded in on my M235i only had 30,000 miles on the clock - almost like new.

Now, my M235i might be a different story in terms of yearly mileage.

[spmd11]

I have AT, having come from an M3 with DCT. It is a fine transmission and I agree with much of what everyone has reported. However, if I did it over again, I would by the 6 speed instead.. and that is due to one significant gripe.

I like to drive my M235 in Sport + because the exhaust sounds so much more aggressive, the steering is tighter and the back end is more playful. BUT, if you are in full D, and Sport+, the car will not shift above 6th gear for economy, so I find myself having to toggle back to comfort after shifting myself or in D.

This is very irritating. In my DCT M3, one could set the aggressiveness of the transmission for the full on automatic mode separately from the manual mode. You cannot do this in the automatic 235 and so you lose control of an important element of the tranny

[pikcachu]

Not sure I understand the problem....

you can always drive in "sport" configured to only chassis... and you get the louder exhaust, tight steering and non-sport transmission... if you want you can hit DTC on....
this would be effectively same as "sport +" without the trans in sport so it will shift up to 8th... in sport it goes over 6th as it goes up to 7th gear

Also "full D" in Sport+ actually has no effect... on Sport+ the trans is already in sport mode so D and DS in sport+ are exactly the same

[spmd11]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Not sure I understand the problem....

you can always drive in "sport" configured to only chassis... and you get the louder exhaust, tight steering and non-sport transmission...

How does one configure "sport" only to chassis? I didn't think that this was possible?

And, if it is possible, what things can you configure in the sport mode?

These are the items that might be configurable?

1. Throttle response
2. Steering weight/ratio
3. Exhaust note
4. Suspension stiffness
5. Transmission sportiness

I'm away out of town on business so can't test in my car, but I'm thinking that you can change
"Chassis" and/or "Drivetrain". If this is the case, which of the above 5 are adjusted in which?

Clearly, these items are more controllable in a proper M car, but we must have some limited control in our cars, right? I didn't realize this, and if it is true, perhaps I can extract a small bit more pleasure in my M235 until the M2 is ready?! ha ha

[spmd11]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Not sure I understand the problem....

you can always drive in "sport" configured to only chassis... and you get the louder exhaust, tight steering and non-sport transmission... if you want you can hit DTC on....
this would be effectively same as "sport +" without the trans in sport so it will shift up to 8th... in sport it goes over 6th as it goes up to 7th gear

Pikcachu, I did not know this and I'm so glad that you stepped in and explained this new revelation to me! Ha ha.. so it looks as though, if I configure sport setting for chassis only, then I will get, 1.) louder exhaust, 2.) tighter chassis, 3.) tighter steering, and my transmission will be non-sport. So, if I were to accelerate in full Manual mode and say, stop the upshift at 5th gear, and then slap the transmission lever back to the right, the car would then upshift in non-sport to 8th gear, eventually.

So, in this case, the only thing that I am losing out with this sport configuration, is a sharper throttle response. This ability to configure sport is a good thing, and something that I didn't realize, but I wish that I could also configure the throttle mapping independently.

I think when I get home, I will configure sport as described above, and then configure sport+ with "chassis" and "drivetrain" ON.

It is possible to configure sport and sport+ differently, correct?

[USPSALIMITED]

Hmmm, after driving manuals for years my left knee started telling me it was not happy about this chronic repeated motion stuff. I don't know if this is somewhat common or just a me thing.

Else for me a MT is like skydiving. At one time it was a fun passion, now, if I have to fly somewhere I'm always glad to know that I don't have to jump out.

[mike@tpc]

I like the 8 speed much better than the dct in my wife's Z4.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by spmd11

Pikcachu, I did not know this and I'm so glad that you stepped in and explained this new revelation to me! Ha ha.. so it looks as though, if I configure sport setting for chassis only, then I will get, 1.) louder exhaust, 2.) tighter chassis, 3.) tighter steering, and my transmission will be non-sport. So, if I were to accelerate in full Manual mode and say, stop the upshift at 5th gear, and then slap the transmission lever back to the right, the car would then upshift in non-sport to 8th gear, eventually.

So, in this case, the only thing that I am losing out with this sport configuration, is a sharper throttle response. This ability to configure sport is a good thing, and something that I didn't realize, but I wish that I could also configure the throttle mapping independently.

I think when I get home, I will configure sport as described above, and then configure sport+ with "chassis" and "drivetrain" ON.

It is possible to configure sport and sport+ differently, correct?

yes I think you just lose the throttle response if "only chasis"

you can only configure "sport".... sport+ is fixed to "chassis and drivetrain" & DTC on

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by spmd11

How does one configure "sport" only to chassis? I didn't think that this was possible?

And, if it is possible, what things can you configure in the sport mode?

These are the items that might be configurable?

1. Throttle response
2. Steering weight/ratio
3. Exhaust note
4. Suspension stiffness
5. Transmission sportiness

I'm away out of town on business so can't test in my car, but I'm thinking that you can change
"Chassis" and/or "Drivetrain". If this is the case, which of the above 5 are adjusted in which?

Clearly, these items are more controllable in a proper M car, but we must have some limited control in our cars, right? I didn't realize this, and if it is true, perhaps I can extract a small bit more pleasure in my M235 until the M2 is ready?! ha ha

there are 2 ways... if you have the "drive mode" display on idrive when you switch modes there is a "configure sport" that appears at the bottom...

else you go to settings - then "driving mode" and there should be option to configure sport and eco pro

options for sport would be

chassis only
drivetrain only
chassis and drivetrain

[spmd11]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Not sure I understand the problem....

you can always drive in "sport" configured to only chassis... and you get the louder exhaust, tight steering and non-sport transmission... if you want you can hit DTC on....
this would be effectively same as "sport +" without the trans in sport so it will shift up to 8th... in sport it goes over 6th as it goes up to 7th gear

Also "full D" in Sport+ actually has no effect... on Sport+ the trans is already in sport mode so D and DS in sport+ are exactly the same

Originally Posted by pikcachu

there are 2 ways... if you have the "drive mode" display on idrive when you switch modes there is a "configure sport" that appears at the bottom...

else you go to settings - then something like drive mode and there should be option to configure sport and eco pro

options for sport would be

chassis only
drivetrain only
chassis and drivetrain

Thanks! Color me stupid, but I've owned a DCT M3 and still have a 6 speed M3 and did not know that this was possible in my M235. CA never told me about it

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by USPSALIMITED

Hmmm, after driving manuals for years my left knee started telling me it was not happy about this chronic repeated motion stuff. I don't know if this is somewhat common or just a me thing.

Else for me a MT is like skydiving. At one time it was a fun passion, now, if I have to fly somewhere I'm always glad to know that I don't have to jump out.

No, it's not just you. Shoulders, knees... you name it.

And I've never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane.

Speaking of skydiving and such, you might get a kick out of this:

[2+3=5]

LMAO

[USPSALIMITED]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Speaking of skydiving and such, you might get a kick out of this:

[plien69]

Originally Posted by spmd11

so it looks as though, if I configure sport setting for chassis only, then I will get, 1.) louder exhaust, 2.) tighter chassis, 3.) tighter steering, and my transmission will be non-sport.

Louder exhaust is part of "Drivetrain" not "Chassis"

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by plien69

Louder exhaust is part of "Drivetrain" not "Chassis"

ah yeah... you are correct

ya so sport with "only chassis" sounds like comfort...and you only hear the louder exhaust when switching to sport+ :-(
but what's interesting is that if you do DSC off (5 secs hold) then you get the sound and chassis but not the throttle response... but then you have no stability control

DSC off -
Active sound: on
Throttle response: slow
Steering heavy
Dampers: not sure (i suppose hard as chassis is in sport? )

Sport mode (chassis and drivetrain) -
Active sound: on
Throttle response: fast
Steering: heavy
Dampers: hard

[spmd11]

See what I mean? A lot less control of systems with non-M car. Frustrating