[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by dradernh

It's surprising that as far north as they are, both MN and WI don't permit studded tires.

This is very new to me! Thank you! I have been here for two winters; you learn something new everyday.

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by albertw

Rumor has it that Mazda is moving the 6 upmarket into the sport sedan class. It's going to be built on a rear wheel drive platform. Considering the great handling RWD cars of the past, eg. RX-7 & -8, it could be a strong competitor to the 3 series. Apparently Mazda doesn't believe in myths.

Its hard to take anyone seriously who wants to use Mazda as an example in automotive.

They are incredibly irrelevant beyond the rental car sales division.

If it wasnt for the miata, they would literally be irrelevant in all car conversations.

They're trying to "upmarket" the mazda 6 because they havent committed to discontinuing sedans, the way that most other brands have.

That leaves them with 3 options:

1. compete with honda/toyota and their INCREDIBLY loyal customer base
2. Compete with kia/hyundai on price (automatic loss, and Kia's SUVs are actually eating their lunch..)
3. Attempt to rebrand their image (currently struggling to do so) and try to be "luxury".

Neither of the 3 are great options, all 3 will result in obvious losses.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

Its hard to take anyone seriously who wants to use Mazda as an example in automotive.

They are incredibly irrelevant beyond the rental car sales division.

If it wasnt for the miata, they would literally be irrelevant in all car conversations.

They're trying to "upmarket" the mazda 6 because they havent committed to discontinuing sedans, the way that most other brands have.

That leaves them with 3 options:

1. compete with honda/toyota and their INCREDIBLY loyal customer base
2. Compete with kia/hyundai on price (automatic loss, and Kia's SUVs are actually eating their lunch..)
3. Attempt to rebrand their image (currently struggling to do so) and try to be "luxury".

Neither of the 3 are great options, all 3 will result in obvious losses.

You're grinding someone's ax quite hard here. Whose ax is it?

[KennyFSU]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

Its hard to take anyone seriously who wants to use Mazda as an example in automotive

Spec Miata is the most popular club-racing class in the country and the largest single class within NASA.

Mazda has racing heritage going back to the 60s, it's the only Japanese automaker to ever take overall victory in the Le Mans 24 Hour race.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by dradernh

You're grinding someone's ax quite hard here. Whose ax is it?

Gimli's, of course.

[Throttlesteer14]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

Its hard to take anyone seriously who wants to use Mazda as an example in automotive.

They are incredibly irrelevant beyond the rental car sales division.

If it wasnt for the miata, they would literally be irrelevant in all car conversations.

They're trying to "upmarket" the mazda 6 because they havent committed to discontinuing sedans, the way that most other brands have.

That leaves them with 3 options:

1. compete with honda/toyota and their INCREDIBLY loyal customer base
2. Compete with kia/hyundai on price (automatic loss, and Kia's SUVs are actually eating their lunch..)
3. Attempt to rebrand their image (currently struggling to do so) and try to be "luxury".

Neither of the 3 are great options, all 3 will result in obvious losses.

In the performance space, there's some merit to your post. With Mazda having abandoned the Mazdaspeed platform and the Miata being the lone offering for performance enthusiasts, there isn't much there. But, the Mazda CX-5 and 3 models have been huge successes outside of that space. My wife currently drives a CX-5 Signature (2.5L turbo with 250hp and 310ft/lbs). It's no slouch, and the interior is on par or better than the X3 and X5. I've owned 3 Mazdas and they were all great cars that punched above their weight (RX-7, Miata, Speed3).

I'm sure the car forums were littered with similar criticism of Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai at one time or another. Then Lexus, Acura, and Genesis came along.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by KennyFSU

Mazda has racing heritage going back to the 60s, it's the only Japanese automaker to ever take overall victory in the Le Mans 24 Hour race.

What's ironic about this fact is that Toyota's INCREDIBLY loyal customer base has never been enough to push it first across the line at Le Mans. It's been close, though – very, very close!

Full disclosure: I've owned both generations of Tundras and they met my needs perfectly. Toyota also stepped-up on two occasions to warranty work costing nearly $20K – no other manufacturer I'm aware of would have paid for those jobs.

It's certain that BMW wouldn't have, and the work would likely have cost double on a BMW; because...highly-engineered German driving machine...or something like that.

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14

My wife currently drives a CX-5 Signature (2.5L turbo with 250hp and 310hp). It's no slouch, and the interior is on par or better than the X3 and X5. I've owned 3 Mazdas and they were all great cars that punched above their weight (RX-7, Miata, Speed3).

Mine's got a '15 Mazda 3 2.5L manual hatchback. She bought it for running around town, and it's served her well. And, as a Japanese car, it costs virtually nothing to run.

The interior is, for me, equivalent to my M240i. I find the MZ3's plastic seat material preferable to the BMW's Dakota leather.

What I like most about it, though, is it's willingness to turn, helped by the fact it weighs less than 3,000#. It's definitely got some of that Miata magic in it, and it's a ton of fun on the twisty streets and roads in this part of Ohio.

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by KennyFSU

Spec Miata is the most popular club-racing class in the country and the largest single class within NASA.

Mazda has racing heritage going back to the 60s, it's the only Japanese automaker to ever take overall victory in the Le Mans 24 Hour race.

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

If it wasnt for the miata, they would literally be irrelevant in all car conversations.

I believe Miata was addressed already?

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14

I'm sure the car forums were littered with similar criticism of Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai at one time or another. Then Lexus, Acura, and Genesis came along.

I dont agree.

Hyundai has merit. They also have former german car staff for a reason.

Am I rushing to buy one? no..but I can give credit where credit is due.

Mazda? I dont quite see the similarities to toyota and honda.

reputation for reliability? nope.

resale value? nope.

Im not a fan of crossovers/suvs so I'll take your word on that one.

[albertw]

Approximately 10 years ago Car & Driver named the RX8 the best handling car in the world. I doubt Mazda has forgotten how to do that, so if they do bring out a 3-series competitor it likely will be very good.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by albertw

Approximately 10 years ago Car & Driver named the RX8 the best handling car in the world. I doubt Mazda has forgotten how to do that, so if they do bring out a 3-series competitor it likely will be very good.

Mazda has a long history of building cars that handle exceptionally well, going all the way back to the first rx-7. More recently, mazdaspeed versions of the 3 and the 6 were both well reviewed by the automotive press and even the standard versions of most of their vehicles are viewed as being the best handling vehicles in their respective classes. And if you’ve been paying attention to the Miata at all, you’ll know they have not lost the plot on that car. The latest generation was clearly something the company invested in doing the ‘right’ way. After two generations of doing the thing that every car does (getting bigger, heavier and more powerful) Mazda actually made the car lighter, no more powerful and much better. When was the last time BMW didn’t add a bunch of weight to a performance car during a redesign?

[morphomeman]

I second Moflow's message.
Anyone who reads the literature knows that Mazda has consistently run away with the field in the reviews of its cars in all classes. The latest I have seen is the Car and Driver compare in which the CX-5 came out on top in compact SUVs. There seems to be no consensus on why Mazda does not do better in sales.
And just for the record, I have never owned a Mazda vehicle of any sort.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

There seems to be no consensus on why Mazda does not do better in sales.

It's because most people don't have good taste in cars. Mazdas tend to be more sporty looking and have a more sporting chassis, seats, ride quality, etc. Most buyers don't want what is perceived to be a flashy car or one that rides "rough" or has tight and firm seats.

If my wife totaled her 2015 Outback 3.6R, we'd be a Mazda buying a CX-5 turbo. No question. I rent tons of cars for work. Mazdas are BY FAR the best driving and put together cars I rent. I view Mazda as the BMW of Japan in terms of a focus on style and performance. They're reliable, parts are cheap, and they're easy to work on. Definitely not a BMW quality

I work on and modify NB Miatas that a couple friends have. Those cars are full blown sports cars under the sheet metal. It's impressive. Put a new ND Miata on the rack and it's even more impressive. It's crazy what they are offering for so little money.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

It's because most people don't have good taste in cars. Mazdas tend to be more sporty looking and have a more sporting chassis, seats, ride quality, etc. Most buyers don't want what is perceived to be a flashy car or one that rides "rough" or has tight and firm seats.

If my wife totaled her 2015 Outback 3.6R, we'd be a Mazda buying a CX-5 turbo. No question. I rent tons of cars for work. Mazdas are BY FAR the best driving and put together cars I rent. I view Mazda as the BMW of Japan in terms of a focus on style and performance. They're reliable, parts are cheap, and they're easy to work on. Definitely not a BMW quality

I work on and modify NB Miatas that a couple friends have. Those cars are full blown sports cars under the sheet metal. It's impressive. Put a new ND Miata on the rack and it's even more impressive. It's crazy what they are offering for so little money.

I often wonder why someone would ever buy a four cylinder porky ass 50k BMW 230i when they can just get a damn Miata. Honestly blows my mind when I see the same folks talking about the "riiiide and feeeeel and the lightness of the smaller engine" when they skip over the raw awesomeness that is the new Miata (or evening better the Miata before that). I am not even talking about more money than sense here (though one can make that argument), but it does relate to a taste issue that you mentioned.

[cristo]

Well, for one thing a Miata is just a two seater.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by cristo

Well, for one thing a Miata is just a two seater.

...and it is 21" shorter and 2" narrower for those of us for whom there is such a thing as too small.

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

...and it is 21" shorter and 2" narrower for those of us for whom there is such a thing as too small.

and, bringing our discussion full circle, is only offered in RWD, while a 230i has the option of xdrive, and about half a second difference in 0-60 time, or more, depending on which trims you're comparing

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

I often wonder why someone would ever buy a four cylinder porky ass 50k BMW 230i when they can just get a damn Miata. Honestly blows my mind when I see the same folks talking about the "riiiide and feeeeel and the lightness of the smaller engine" when they skip over the raw awesomeness that is the new Miata (or evening better the Miata before that). I am not even talking about more money than sense here (though one can make that argument), but it does relate to a taste issue that you mentioned.

I wonder who buys them new for 50k as well...

definitely arguable as to what the better decision is but I guess 2 seater vs 4 seater makes a bigger difference, as does dealership, brand, and service experience (to a degree).

[Throttlesteer14]

A brand new Miata and $10k of performance upgrades will take down many $100k cars. It's hard to argue value for the dollar

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14

A brand new Miata and $10k of performance upgrades will take down many $100k cars. It's hard to argue value for the dollar

10 pages ago I said that for 50k I would buy a Miata and then do an LS swap on that. Imagine that beast. Perfect track assault weapon

[Throttlesteer14]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

10 pages ago I said that for 50k I would buy a Miata and then do an LS swap on that. Imagine that beast. Perfect track assault weapons

Thats essentially what Fltun' Miata does. Turnkey LS Miatas for around 50k

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14

Thats essentially what Fltun' Miata does. Turnkey LS Miatas for around 50k

Flyin Miata are amazing! Holy shit check out the Exocet! Sadly they stopped taking custom orders quite a while back.

But that's alright, we have the Caterham! I am looking into those thanks to aerobod