[135]

Originally Posted by W///

Even a CF roof is not going to drop an M235i from 3500 lbs to 3200 lbs. And I don't think there's 250 lbs worth of standard options. Let's put it this way, BMW lost as much weight as humanly possible from the E46 M3 CSL. According to Wiki, it was 240 lbs lighter than a normal M3, and that was with CF everywhere and a more or less stripped interior (which the M2 won't get any of those).

Another example would be the E36 M3 LTW, which only lost 200 lbs even though it didn't have things like sunroof, AC and radio. Not to mention it had aluminum doors.

Maybe if we are lucky, we'll get an M2 CSL and it'll weigh 3200 lbs, but I see 0 chance the standard M2 will be that light. My hope is that my stripper build (probably just metallic paint, LED if available, cloth seats and 6MT) comes from the factory at 3400 lbs. I'll probably ditch the factory exhaust and do some other stuff and hopefully come to 3350 lbs. I'd be more than happy with that. The only way to find out is to do it, and then go weigh it

P.S I still want a GT4 bad, don't get me wrong

There are a lot of lightweight materials in the M3 and M4 - guards/fenders, boot/trunk lid, bonnet, various driveline components, suspension, brakes and, yes, roof. That just shows what is possible.

I think you may have missed one of my points regarding the difference between DIN and US weights. My reference weight is 3200 lbs DIN, which equates to 3470 lbs US, based on a crude method of using a multiple of 2.4 (which was the multiple between DIN and US for the M235i). The multiple could have been somewhere between 2.3 and 2.4, as was the case for all the other weights, but I chose 2.4 because it was derived from the base model that is being used for the M2. Perhaps you could use a multiple of 2.35, which would result in US weights of 3385/3410 lbs (MT/AT) and somewhat align with your hope for a 3400 lbs M2, or a multiple of 2.3, which would result in US weights of 3310/3335 lbs (MT/AT).

So any reference to 3200 lbs has to be taken in context. In the US, there is no chance of an M2 being 3200 lbs due to the definition of US unladen weight BUT in any country that uses DIN unladen weight, 3200 lbs (1450 kg x 2.2048) is most definitely possible. This is the reason why I tried, perhaps unsuccessfully, to provide an indication of what I thought the US unladen weight might be, i.e. 3470 lbs (an average of the MT and AT) - and either 3400 lbs or 3310 lbs if you wanted to use other multiples.

I think that if an M2 was to weigh in at 1440 kg DIN (3470 lbs US) then that would require every weight saving measure that was applied to the M4. Just look at the M4/435i MT weights that I posted: DIN unladen M4 is 13 kg lighter, while US unladen M4 is 70 lbs lighter (even these kg & lbs weights are skewed and, therefore, aren't reflective if the multiple). That's 0.8-2%! That's nothing really. It's worse for the M3 because it's heavier than the 335i. You could almost say that the M cars weigh the same as the non-M cars.

M2 CSL at 3200 lbs US unladen? Possibly but that would put it at the same DIN unladen weight as the GT4, which would require a reduction in my suggested M2 weight of 1440 kg down to 1340 kg. 100 kg of weight saving - probably not, especially after getting to 1440 kg DIN required all the weight saving measures that were applied to the M4. If it was stripped (and I mean stripped) to be as raw as a race car then, yes, it could be possible.

But it's all a guessing game for now, which is why I usually don't think about it until something official is released, otherwise I tend to write long posts

[FTS]

Just a note: I haven't personally seen any Cayman in street trim with full fuel weigh less than 3,150 lbs, which is still superb of course.

However, one has to realize that weight savings cost a lot of engineering, materials and manufacturing money. So, when people say Porsches are 'overpriced' they underestimate the level of engineering and precision that is under the skin, not only to deliver raw performance but also addition of lightness.

So, IMHO, if an M2 is to go below 3,400 lbs, I would expect the price to go up measurably. And I think an M2 that is over $60K base would not be well received by any buyer group, but of course I may be wrong.

[W///]

Originally Posted by 135

There are a lot of lightweight materials in the M3 and M4 - guards/fenders, boot/trunk lid, bonnet, various driveline components, suspension, brakes and, yes, roof. That just shows what is possible.

I think you may have missed one of my points regarding the difference between DIN and US weights. My reference weight is 3200 lbs DIN, which equates to 3470 lbs US, based on a crude method of using a multiple of 2.4 (which was the multiple between DIN and US for the M235i). The multiple could have been somewhere between 2.3 and 2.4, as was the case for all the other weights, but I chose 2.4 because it was derived from the base model that is being used for the M2. Perhaps you could use a multiple of 2.35, which would result in US weights of 3385/3410 lbs (MT/AT) and somewhat align with your hope for a 3400 lbs M2, or a multiple of 2.3, which would result in US weights of 3310/3335 lbs (MT/AT).

So any reference to 3200 lbs has to be taken in context. In the US, there is no chance of an M2 being 3200 lbs due to the definition of US unladen weight BUT in any country that uses DIN unladen weight, 3200 lbs (1450 kg x 2.2048) is most definitely possible. This is the reason why I tried, perhaps unsuccessfully, to provide an indication of what I thought the US unladen weight might be, i.e. 3470 lbs (an average of the MT and AT) - and either 3400 lbs or 3310 lbs if you wanted to use other multiples.

I think that if an M2 was to weigh in at 1440 kg DIN (3470 lbs US) then that would require every weight saving measure that was applied to the M4. Just look at the M4/435i MT weights that I posted: DIN unladen M4 is 13 kg lighter, while US unladen M4 is 70 lbs lighter (even these kg & lbs weights are skewed and, therefore, aren't reflective if the multiple). That's 0.8-2%! That's nothing really. It's worse for the M3 because it's heavier than the 335i. You could almost say that the M cars weigh the same as the non-M cars.

M2 CSL at 3200 lbs US unladen? Possibly but that would put it at the same DIN unladen weight as the GT4, which would require a reduction in my suggested M2 weight of 1440 kg down to 1340 kg. 100 kg of weight saving - probably not, especially after getting to 1440 kg DIN required all the weight saving measures that were applied to the M4. If it was stripped (and I mean stripped) to be as raw as a race car then, yes, it could be possible.

But it's all a guessing game for now, which is why I usually don't think about it until something official is released, otherwise I tend to write long posts

I got you now, sorry about that. We are definitely on the same page then!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by hans007

yeah exactly i'd guess 60% more expensive is a huge factor for most people.

price wise the m2 will likely be around the price of a base cayman. and a base cayman is really really base. it has among other things a 40W stereo and doesnt have standard automatic climate control. it doesnt even have usb ports, or BT audio (yeah yeah, its a sports car it doesnt need luxury wah wah)

i think the theoretical 55k m2, vs a base cayman, is a much more fair comparison (i'm guessing most of us here would take the m2 right?).

This same comparison existed with the 1M vs the Cayman. Price-wise the BMW is near the cayman ,and was often compared to the cayman R and generally the R is the " track weapon" and the 1M is the better overall vehicle.

Now the cayman has become even more focused but also gone upmarket as well. BMW M always provides a more useable vehicle that is a better value. The simple fact that the M2 is considered a competitor with a car 50-60 more expensive speaks volumes.

I would love to see not just the M2, but then a racier M2 CSL, GTS or Sport Evo! As it is the M2 will lose a lot of interest for me if its not lighter than the 1M.

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I have to seriously reevaluate this. GT4 has me thinking sinfully.

If this is the case you better hurry, the GT4 is almost sold out already, several dealers are reporting selling their allocations for both years already. It may be too late to get on the list for GT4.

http://www.caymangt4.com/forum/techn...?p=403#post403

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by Sebis

If this is the case you better hurry, the GT4 is almost sold out already, several dealers are reporting selling their allocations for both years already. It may be too late to get on the list for GT4.

http://www.caymangt4.com/forum/techn...?p=403#post403" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.caymangt4...03#post403</a>

I got a spot yesterday, no.2 I'll post when she comes in.

[LDSM]

I was really expecting the GT4 to start closer to 100k.

$85k is not bad for this car, especially if you're the type that can keep the options low

[RingMeister01]

I got the radio, A/C deletes, fire extinguisher and black wheels. That's it.

I'm stocked!!!

[W///]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I got the radio, A/C deletes, fire extinguisher and black wheels. That's it.

I'm stocked!!!

So are you skipping the M2?

That's awesome to hear man, one of my favorite cars at the moment and would pick over the Z06 all day. Congrats

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by W///

So are you skipping the M2?

That's awesome to hear man, one of my favorite cars at the moment and would pick over the Z06 all day. Congrats

The M2 will be a beast but will be way to heavy. The GT4 is just a ball of fire. It's beyond perfect and exactly what I'm looking for.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I got the radio, A/C deletes, fire extinguisher and black wheels. That's it.

I'm stocked!!!

good choice man! the GT4 is amaaaazing! in a different league. A true 'parts bin' glory!

[W///]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

The M2 will be a beast but will be way to heavy. The GT4 is just a ball of fire. It's beyond perfect and exactly what I'm looking for.

Oh yea, the GT4 is in another league completely. I was thinking more and more yesterday and did some researching. The E46 M3 is around 3400 lbs, yet I don't remember anyone every call it a pig (nor did it feel like one when I drove it). With the mods I've got planed, along with ordering it almost completely stripped from the factory, I think I can maybe get a decent number when all is said and done.

I like the challenge

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by W///

Oh yea, the GT4 is in another league completely. I was thinking more and more yesterday and did some researching. The E46 M3 is around 3400 lbs, yet I don't remember anyone every call it a pig (nor did it feel like one when I drove it). With the mods I've got planed, along with ordering it almost completely stripped from the factory, I think I can maybe get a decent number when all is said and done.

I like the challenge

I think the E46 M3 was a bit of a pig....but yknow what MOST german cars are....aside from Porsches. It's like BMW, Audi, and Merc build their parts out of concrete.

Even the original E30 M3 was not THAT light...close to 3000 lbs! everyone seems to think it was super light or something when it was really not.

My 1M is like 3290lbs and I think that's too heavy as well...

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I got the radio, A/C deletes, fire extinguisher and black wheels. That's it.

I'm stocked!!!

A/C delete? for long island? brave or...

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

The M2 will be a beast but will be way to heavy. The GT4 is just a ball of fire. It's beyond perfect and exactly what I'm looking for.

Awesome mate, well jealous!!! I think I can just about afford a GT4 and a 320D for DD, but it would drive my wife buts if I ordered again so soon, even if the wait was 2 years!

Congrats again, pics up whenever she lands. What colour?

[W///]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

I think the E46 M3 was a bit of a pig....but yknow what MOST german cars are....aside from Porsches. It's like BMW, Audi, and Merc build their parts out of concrete.

Even the original E30 M3 was not THAT light...close to 3000 lbs! everyone seems to think it was super light or something when it was really not.

My 1M is like 3290lbs and I think that's too heavy as well...

Right. I guess it just depends what your expectations for the cars are. If it's a 2 seater a la Cayman or Miata, then yes, 3300 lbs is way too heavy. But if we are talking about a coupe with 4 seats and a proper trunk that you could realistically use as your only car, I don't think that's too horrible.

That would actually be a great goal for me: Make the M2 as light as a stock 1M. I would have no complaints. Well apart from the fact that we might miss out of CF roof again

[W///]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

A/C delete? for long island? brave or...

Because race car

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I got a spot yesterday, no.2 I'll post when she comes in.

Congrats, spoke with the dealer this morning, I am (maybe) #7 on the list, have "at least" six in front of me including a 918 owner. We shall see...

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

A/C delete? for long island? brave or...

It's a track day car that will be pulled by a plush vehicle with ice cold AC.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

I think the E46 M3 was a bit of a pig....but yknow what MOST german cars are....aside from Porsches. It's like BMW, Audi, and Merc build their parts out of concrete.

Even the original E30 M3 was not THAT light...close to 3000 lbs! everyone seems to think it was super light or something when it was really not.

My 1M is like 3290lbs and I think that's too heavy as well...

I agree with this.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by FTS

Just a note: I haven't personally seen any Cayman in street trim with full fuel weigh less than 3,150 lbs, which is still superb of course.

However, one has to realize that weight savings cost a lot of engineering, materials and manufacturing money. So, when people say Porsches are 'overpriced' they underestimate the level of engineering and precision that is under the skin, not only to deliver raw performance but also addition of lightness.

So, IMHO, if an M2 is to go below 3,400 lbs, I would expect the price to go up measurably. And I think an M2 that is over $60K base would not be well received by any buyer group, but of course I may be wrong.

Yep, dat German/Porsche tradition of adding something by subtraction.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I got the radio, A/C deletes, fire extinguisher and black wheels. That's it.

I'm stocked!!!

awesome man congrats! that's the way to option it