[PackPride85]

BMW refers to both their single scroll dual turbo and twin scroll single turbo as "TwinPower" technology.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

This is why the 1M was twin turbo and the n55 went into to rest of the lineup except the "is limited edition 335/135/z435..

Pretty sure the z4 and 335 -is models got the n54 with slightly different tuning (z4 same hp as 1m). The 135is got the n55 with mppk and dct though.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

BMW refers to both their single scroll dual turbo and twin scroll single turbo as "TwinPower" technology.

Yes, as the name TwinPower means it uses a turbo and something else... So whatever turbo setup it has it is only one part of he TwinPower name. The other is for example Valvetronic etc.

[bim2er]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

BMW refers to both their single scroll dual turbo and twin scroll single turbo as "TwinPower" technology.

My understanding is that BMW has only referred to TwinPower technology for engines with twin-scroll turbo(s).

Would there be an example of an engine model number with single scroll that is referred to as "TwinPower"?

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...echnology.html

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by bim2er

My understanding is that BMW has only referred to TwinPower technology for engines with twin-scroll turbo(s).

Would there be an example of an engine model number with single scroll that is referred to as "TwinPower"?

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...echnology.html

Check the bmwusa m3 homepage. It says twinpower and uses single scroll turbos.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The twin turbo setup is better than the " twin power " single turbo setup. This is per BMW M engineers. I was told this directly by a BMW M engineer, because I asked the question when the 1M was introduced.


This is why the 1M was twin turbo and the n55 went into to rest of the lineup except the "is limited edition 335/135/z435.

You see that the S55 is twin turbo, the S63 in the X5 and X6M... and M5/M6..the new M6 race motor also is. Etc.

Most of the The high volume models get a single turbo - for better fuel economy, emissions, albeit slightly less potential for power.

I'm not debating the fact that the two turbos in the N54 have more flow potential than the single snail on the current N55. The math is self evident.

My contention is that the N55 upgrade in the M2 results in a motor that is more modern (Valvetronic) and will be capable of handling more boost reliably over a longer time span than the N54 with its open deck design.

What the turbo on the N55B30TO will be able to generate efficiently won't be known until it hits the market and the tinkerers start tinkering but the prospect of a mild turbo upgrade on it just got much brighter

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

Well its a good point, but the cast crank in the standard N55 was in turn 3KG lighter than the forged crank in the N54. The 3KG weight increase with the M235i would actually be a good indicator they've moved back to the old forged part? It does seem odd the way they push various things, but perhaps the X4 M40i promotion is ramping up excitement (at least engine wise) for the M2 and how its not going to be a standard N55?

That is interesting. The N54 crank actually weighs 0.8 kg more than the M235i N55 crank, plus it is a different part number, so who knows. I guess steel does have a higher density than most cast irons. Feels like a snipe hunt trying to found out. There might not be any difference, so I guess we will have to wait to see if the part number changes.

[bim2er]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Check the bmwusa m3 homepage. It says twinpower and uses single scroll turbos.

You're correct.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Die ///M Rakete

My contention is that the N55 upgrade in the M2 results in a motor that is more modern (Valvetronic) and will be capable of handling more boost reliably over a longer time span than the N54 with its open deck design.

Which is a point without a point. You ever see a broken N54 block? There are 800 HP+ cars out there. That engine is a brick shit house. Seriously, it's one of the strongest motors out there. I suspect the upgraded N55 will be too.

So again, even if your assumption was somehow supported, how is it relevant? How freaking strong does it need to be before it's all a wash? That's the beauty of all of these engines...you don't have to worry about the bottom ends. Literally none of them. N54, old N55, new N55...they're all very well built, with plenty of strength to handle big power over stock.

If an old N55 can hold 500 bhp, literally forever, and the new one can hold 600 bhp, forever...and you're going to run it at 400 bhp, then how the heck is the difference relevant beyond dick swinging on the internet?

[PrematureApex]

I mean, the forged crank is a good thing. We'll all take it. It's a sign they gave the car more attention than some of us thinking they may have.

But be realistic here. Some people are getting VERY excited about the strengthening of a part that didn't need any strengthening to be reliable. Take a breath.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Which is a point without a point. You ever see a broken N54 block? There are 800 HP+ cars out there. That engine is a brick shit house. Seriously, it's one of the strongest motors out there. I suspect the upgraded N55 will be too.

So again, even if your assumption was somehow supported, how is it relevant? How freaking strong does it need to be before it's all a wash? That's the beauty of all of these engines...you don't have to worry about the bottom ends. Literally none of them. N54, old N55, new N55...they're all very well built, with plenty of strength to handle big power over stock.

If an old N55 can hold 500 bhp, literally forever, and the new one can hold 600 bhp, forever...and you're going to run it at 400 bhp, then how the heck is the difference relevant beyond dick swinging on the internet?

I see that you're quite fond of your N54. I loved my modded N54 as well.

You might be in a position to be better informed on the potential and longevity of these engines (N54/N55) than I am. I only see what goes through our service shop, what I read on the net and what the guys on our race team opine. While I modified my N54 and never had a single issue with it, I have yet to play with the N55.

However, if the strength and reliability of the N55 is good for 500hp as you say, then BMW is going through a considerable amount of time and treasure to strengthen the bottom end and block just for kicks ?!

[PeterPure]

Just FYI the N55 in M135/M235 models has a forged crank.

[chmura]

The n54 did a lot of harm than good IMO. Lots of people that I know would not buy another BMW again due to having 4+ high pressure fuel pumps go out. Yeah maybe the engine is solid but your average joe looks at the entire engine and make as a whole.

The n54 seemed of gotten fixed when the 1M got released. That means what ever flaws the N55 had will be fixed for the M2.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by chmura

The n54 did a lot of harm than good IMO. Lots of people that I know would not buy another BMW again due to having 4+ high pressure fuel pumps go out. Yeah maybe the engine is solid but your average joe looks at the entire engine and make as a whole.

The n54 seemed of gotten fixed when the 1M got released. That means what ever flaws the N55 had will be fixed for the M2.

Tell Average Joe... Don't throw the motors out with the fuel pumps..! Fuel pumps that were installed in the N54 1 series were sorted before they were installed in the 1M, but this because the part was changed or improved.. nothing to do with the motor!


"Average Joe " should also realize that BMW doesn't make fuel pumps.. right?

Just because a VENDOR supplies BMW with a bad part... doesn't mean " Joe " should throw BMW out with the bathwater either.

It doesn't surprise me that if you had one failed fuel pump that you had four... because more than likely they were installing the same pump again.. Until A new vendor (or the current vendor corrects the issue) can be found to create the part... produce it... and get it to BMW... there is nothing that can be done other than install another of the same bad part. Not to mention... hundreds of parts in the supply chain eventually need to be replaced........

Speaking of bad parts... there was an issue with oil pumps on the S54 motors that came in the E46... Same deal.. BMW reacted by extending motor warranties... because the oil pumps could fail and take out the motor... As opposed to a failed fuel pump which just won't allow the car to start in your driveway.

Glad you are back... because it would really be silly to " cut off your own nose " to spite BMW's face because of a vendor part issue..

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Darkiedm4

Just FYI the N55 in M135/M235 models has a forged crank.

We've already been over that. Cite a source.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

We've already been over that. Cite a source.

Here is the crank part nr on realoem for 335i and a whole bunch of other models:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=11212163665
11212163665
AT-CRANKSHAFT WITH BEARING SHELLS
From:09/01/2009To:-Weight:20.000 kg

Then for M135i/M235i it has a different part nr and is 3kg more heavy:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=11212334334
11212334334
AT-CRANKSHAFT WITH BEARING SHELLS
From:07/02/2012To:-Weight:23.000 kg

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Darkiedm4

Here is the crank part nr on realoem for 335i and a whole bunch of other models:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=11212163665
11212163665
AT-CRANKSHAFT WITH BEARING SHELLS
From:09/01/2009To:-Weight:20.000 kg

Then for M135i/M235i it has a different part nr and is 3kg more heavy:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=11212334334
11212334334
AT-CRANKSHAFT WITH BEARING SHELLS
From:07/02/2012To:-Weight:23.000 kg

You guys do realize that with casting you can make improvements by using different alloys which can result in higher strength/weight. A different part # and weight doesn't mean its forged.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

You guys do realize that with casting you can make improvements by using different alloys which can result in higher strength/weight. A different part # and weight doesn't mean its forged.

Yes I know that. I got it actually from my source in Germany working close with BMW on their engines. But believe whatever you want to believe

[swagon]

I've been told by a guy working for a company making engine components in Germany that BMW saves quite a lot of money per one N55 in comparison to the N54. Can't remember the exact amount, though. I was surprised.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Darkiedm4

Yes I know that. I got it actually from my source in Germany working close with BMW on their engines. But believe whatever you want to believe

We asked for a source, you gave proof of nothing but a different part number.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by swagon

I've been told by a guy working for a company making engine components in Germany that BMW saves quite a lot of money per one N55 in comparison to the N54. Can't remember the exact amount, though. I was surprised.

Oh, that was a big motivator. They realized the N54 was overkill in the power handling department, overly complex (piezo injectors, etc.) and not as efficient as it could be.

Not that we need to start this discussion, but it's amazing BMW owners weren't more pissed when they yanked out the N54, gave them a less potent N55 (don't get me wrong, I love my N55 too) with a misleading "twinpower" label on it, and left pricing the same.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Oh, that was a big motivator. They realized the N54 was overkill in the power handling department, overly complex (piezo injectors, etc.) and not as efficient as it could be.

Not that we need to start this discussion, but it's amazing BMW owners weren't more pissed when they yanked out the N54, gave them a less potent N55 (don't get me wrong, I love my N55 too) with a misleading "twinpower" label on it, and left pricing the same.

The N54 is a great engine, but it is a poor implementation of direct injection, hence the carbon build-up issues. I believe the more recent DI engine designs are better at mitigating the problem, but I'm not sure if there are any pure DI designs that are build-up free.