[bubsterino]

Thanks for the level headed response. I find the anti-RFT bias embedded in some of the posts to border on hysteria. As someone who has a 228i in production (and from what I can tell no non-RFT option), and admittedly has never had RFT before, reading this thread has flipped my stomach a few times in anxiety.

Surely BMW in an attempt to kill their reputation is forcing us poor 228i owners a guaranteed crappy ride, endless amounts of replacement tires, all in the name of being in bed with the RFT companies? C'mon guys...

I have to remind myself sometimes that forums aren't exactly the home of the non passionate. Having read the spectrum of feedback from "I love my RFT and haven't replaced them in 40K miles" to "I've gotten 5 flats in 2 weeks and paid 300 bucks a tire", like anything else, I'm guessing MMMV and the truth lies in the middle.

All I know is that I think it would be bizarre for BMW to state they design the suspension of their cars for the standard wheels (M cars excluded, and in the case of the 228, RFT are not only standard but the only option), and NONE of their engineers comment that the tires ride like cement squares, road noise, lack of cornering? Were they all on the take from the tire companies? An RFT monopoly conspiracy? Pardon me while I put on my tin foil hat.

FWIW, my worst experience with tires was on my Lexus when I had to replace my performance summers around 8K miles, and would spin like crazy on from a dead stop on a slightly upward incline in the rain...forget about snow.

Here's hoping the newest RFT all seasons don't kill my first BMW experience. As it does seem like some won't even shop the brand anymore because of the RFT - then again, likely some of those comments were trolls. I guess that's why it's also disconcerting to read such negative reviews in a BMW forum...

Originally Posted by five3three

1. Yes, playing the odds. Either rely on roadside assistance or have some fix-a-flat for your usual flats. Sidewall puncture and you're just plain screwed. I carry fix-a-flat and an air compressor in the car. Other than that it's a gamble.

2) I have about 9 good months a year. The other three are crap. I have run PSS the past 3 winters on my E90. It was not a smart decision, but it's not as bad as they make it seem where if the temperature is low, you're screwed. I have driven in under 10 degree weather consistently this winter with PSS and been just fine. Now, if there is even a dusting of snow on the ground, you're worthless. Ice and you're worthless too. For those days, it was on to public transportation for me.


Supposedly the newest generation of runflats are not bad at all and are way improved over the older ones that everyone hates. For me the complaint was the harshness of the ride on Bridgestone runflats but on the Michelins that was greatly improved, even with Michelin runflats. All seasons aren't a bad thing at all and are probably worth giving a shot again if they're on your car before dismissing them entirely. I'm pretty sure most people here who are dismissing those all season runflats haven't even tried them on the 2 series yet (including myself), so they may be just fine.

[SuitedUp]

Great post, I'm in the same boat. This will be my first BMW. Never had runflats. But also never had performace tires. Friend of mine has a 3series coupe with RFT... I told him apparently people hate them. He had no idea they weren't the better option. Most of us aren't taking our car to the track and taking corners at crazy speeds. The 228 I test drove felt smooth as hell to me. So that's what really matters.

[bubsterino]

yup. no track for me. And, gulp, guess I'm gonna have to live with the top speed being limited bc I ordered A/S (eye roll)...

Originally Posted by SuitedUp

Great post, I'm in the same boat. This will be my first BMW. Never had runflats. But also never had performace tires. Friend of mine has a 3series coupe with RFT... I told him apparently people hate them. He had no idea they weren't the better option. Most of us aren't taking our car to the track and taking corners at crazy speeds. The 228 I test drove felt smooth as hell to me. So that's what really matters.

[a_newbie]

Originally Posted by five3three

The runflat and all season are coupled together.

It's only 2 options.

1. No options = PSS + non-runflat
2. All season + runflat

Invalid options that would get rejected:

1. Non-all seasons + runflat
2. All season + non-runflat

I wonder if this also applies to m235i in Canada?

[five3three]

Originally Posted by bubsterino

yup. no track for me. And, gulp, guess I'm gonna have to live with the top speed being limited bc I ordered A/S (eye roll)...

Well, you will be one of the ones who doesn't necessarily have to shell out for a set of tires when winter rolls around or drive dangerously. I think that's a fair compromise. Of course this doesn't apply to those folks in areas like Texas, Cali, Fl, etc where winter doesn't exist.

There were actually certain things I did like about my experiences with runflats over the years. I drove 40k total on two sets of Bridgestone runflats and the thing I did like was the stiffer sidewall. It made cornering feel a lot more stable and precise.

[crawfordbay]

Thanks everyone who responded! This forum is terrific.

I plan to take my Performance Center Delivery as is with the run flats. After all I did ok it that way. (If however they ask me why the heck I chose run flats I'll tell 'em it was the dealer's own stupidity.)

Then if I really REALLY don't like them I'll look into replacing them and holding on to the run flats to return with the lease at the end of my three years.

I think I'll probably be ok with them. I feel much better and glad I brought it up.

Next time it shall be flawless.

[bubsterino]

given the 228 doesn't have a non RFT option, any clue how putting non RFT on the whip would affect the warranty if it at all?

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by bubsterino

given the 228 doesn't have a non RFT option, any clue how putting non RFT on the whip would affect the warranty if it at all?

No chance of warranty issues. If you lease, you must return with rft tires, but that's it.

[golf4501]

Originally Posted by crawfordbay

Thanks everyone who responded! This forum is terrific.

I plan to take my Performance Center Delivery as is with the run flats. After all I did ok it that way. (If however they ask me why the heck I chose run flats I'll tell 'em it was the dealer's own stupidity.)

Then if I really REALLY don't like them I'll look into replacing them and holding on to the run flats to return with the lease at the end of my three years.

I think I'll probably be ok with them. I feel much better and glad I brought it up.

Next time it shall be flawless.

I believe the all-season (run flat ) tires are not a staggered set-up, if so does that mean the rims are also different between a all-season and Summer tire car. The Summer tires are larger in the back, so I'm thinking the rims are also larger?

[bubsterino]

ty.

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

No chance of warranty issues. If you lease, you must return with rft tires, but that's it.

[bubsterino]

believe rims are same size, just tires are slightly different on front and back with the summers - see here:

http://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesforyou/2/f22/guide/2014-f22-2-series-price-order-guide.pdf

Originally Posted by golf4501

I believe the all-season (run flat ) tires are not a staggered set-up, if so does that mean the rims are also different between a all-season and Summer tire car. The Summer tires are larger in the back, so I'm thinking the rims are also larger?

[golf4501]

Originally Posted by bubsterino

believe rims are same size, just tires are slightly different on front and back with the summers - see here:

http://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfor...rder-guide.pdf

Hope that is the case for those that got the all-seasons and want to swap out!

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by a_newbie

I wonder if this also applies to m235i in Canada?

Yep. Stick with the standard 2PG wheel/tire combo (my choice) and you get the staggered Michelin PSS Summer performance tires. If you go with the optional 2TR, you get non-staggered all-season run-flats and a lower speed limiter.

[aspensilver]

Originally Posted by bubsterino

Thanks for the level headed response. I find the anti-RFT bias embedded in some of the posts to border on hysteria.

Gotta disagree, the new PSS really are that much better. Just admit that to yourself, and be OK with the fact that perhaps the RFT are a more practical option for you.

As someone who has a 228i in production (and from what I can tell no non-RFT option), and admittedly has never had RFT before, reading this thread has flipped my stomach a few times in anxiety.

Surely BMW in an attempt to kill their reputation is forcing us poor 228i owners a guaranteed crappy ride, endless amounts of replacement tires, all in the name of being in bed with the RFT companies? C'mon guys...

I have to remind myself sometimes that forums aren't exactly the home of the non passionate. Having read the spectrum of feedback from "I love my RFT and haven't replaced them in 40K miles" to "I've gotten 5 flats in 2 weeks and paid 300 bucks a tire", like anything else, I'm guessing MMMV and the truth lies in the middle.

All I know is that I think it would be bizarre for BMW to state they design the suspension of their cars for the standard wheels (M cars excluded, and in the case of the 228, RFT are not only standard but the only option), and NONE of their engineers comment that the tires ride like cement squares, road noise, lack of cornering? Were they all on the take from the tire companies? An RFT monopoly conspiracy? Pardon me while I put on my tin foil hat.

FWIW, my worst experience with tires was on my Lexus when I had to replace my performance summers around 8K miles, and would spin like crazy on from a dead stop on a slightly upward incline in the rain...forget about snow.

Here's hoping the newest RFT all seasons don't kill my first BMW experience. As it does seem like some won't even shop the brand anymore because of the RFT - then again, likely some of those comments were trolls. I guess that's why it's also disconcerting to read such negative reviews in a BMW forum...

RFTs would make me much more likely to wait and pick up a leased 2yr old vehicle. Sure stinks to spend 50K and wish you had a different set of tires when you drive out of the lot. It's nice BMW is offering options now. I wouldn't be surprised though if it is to impress magazines.

[five3three]

Originally Posted by aspensilver

Gotta disagree, the new PSS really are that much better. Just admit that to yourself, and be OK with the fact that perhaps the RFT are a more practical option for you.

Isn't saying PSS is better than runflats also a personal opinion?

Also, you do know that there is such a thing as PSS runflat, right? Where would that fall on your scale of which is better, runflats or PSS?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....Super+Sport+ZP

Not everyone lives in Oakland. What's better for you doesn't necessarily make it better for someone else.

The comparison shouldn't be so much is it runflat or is it PSS but rather whether all seasons or summer tires are the most suitable, since there was no option for a summer runflat or an all season non-runflat. PSS is great, except in any kind of winter weather (as is any other summer tire, zp or not). I have done about 60k on PSS in my car (and about 40k on runflats). I regret having the PSS every time I hit the road in the winter when the weather is bad or if there's a chance of snow and would trade anything for a set of all seasons, runflats or not. When summer rolls around, I'm happy with the PSS.

Maybe getting a sidewall puncture in a shiny new car in one of the shady parts of Oakland late at night would make you wish you had gotten runflats instead of having to sit there and wait an hour for roadside assistance.

And yes, I did order PSS summer tires on mine. And yes, I will regret it every winter. But your response was a little on the condescending side. If everybody hated rft's, they would have done away with them years ago after their first go round. Possibly the majority of people who buy there cars don't obsess over these things.

[Oyinko]

What's the difference exactly between the original tires and the run flat? Are we talking only about grip?


I got my M235i last week with the Bridgestone Potenza 225/40 R18. They are runflat but summer tires, no?

[SmallTownBoy]

Well, any zp is a compromise, especially if they're a/s. I don't wear the same shoes year-round and neither does my car.

I have the PSS for summer and am getting winter tires. My insurer gives a 5% discount on my premium.

Those PSS ZPs aren't listed as available for the M235i, btw.

[five3three]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

Those PSS ZPs aren't listed as available for the M235i, btw.

I know. They'll make them in that size eventually. If they get very high reviews I'd consider giving them a shot. It'd be better than relying on a bottle of old tire slime in my trunk and an air compressor. The PSS ZP is relatively new so not available in many sizes.

I did break down on the highway a couple of summers ago in the middle of a major metro area (water pump related). And I waited over 2 hours in 100 degree heat on the side of the road sitting under a tree (since I couldn't keep the car running) for BMW's contracted out roadside assistance. Apparently that was a busy day for them.

So, relying on roadside assistance as the first plan of action on a flat tire isn't always the best route. BMW decided that sacrificing some comfort for security and peace of mind is worth it for them. And given that BMW's can approach and exceed 100k, for the typical owner, they don't want to be stranded on the side of the road because of a flat tire.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Oyinko

What's the difference exactly between the original tires and the run flat? Are we talking only about grip?


I got my M235i last week with the Bridgestone Potenza 225/40 R18. They are runflat but summer tires, no?

so you have RFT summer performance tires?.

oh no, this is getting real confusing

[five3three]

Originally Posted by Oyinko

What's the difference exactly between the original tires and the run flat? Are we talking only about grip?


I got my M235i last week with the Bridgestone Potenza 225/40 R18. They are runflat but summer tires, no?

Are you sure those are runflats? They are summer tires for sure.

They look like Bridgestone S-04 Pole Position (summer non-runflats):

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....i&autoModClar=

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

[bubsterino]

do you by any chance know the brand of RFT on the 228? been searching the forums and looked on the official ordering guide but couldn't find them...?

[bubsterino]

[QUOTE=aspensilver;15772058]Gotta disagree, the new PSS really are that much better. Just admit that to yourself, and be OK with the fact that perhaps the RFT are a more practical option for you.

my point is that it's possible the PSS are "that much better", but that does not mean the RFT's are "terrible". when we get into the weeds on these things, I think the extreme opinions come out. I remember doing a lot of research on headphones years back. people would say one set of buds were utter crap compared to xyz brand. it was absurd. maybe some audiophile could tell the difference between the nuances of both brands. maybe one set was a 99 out of 100, but they made it seem like brand 2 was 50 out of 100 when it was more like a 90.

my point is this - only the "iles" can tell the difference between a 95 wine and 99 wine, a 90 steak and a 98 steak. what I'm trying to figure out is that if your PSS tires are a 100, what are the RFTs?

they felt great to me during three test drives. but I may not be able to detect the nuances...

I suspect BMW would not have put 70 tires as the only option on a newly released model.