[BD_F22]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Same in southeastern CT. Dealer there has had 2 xDrive M235i cars on their lot for several months now. Melbourne Red and Alpine White - both optioned over $50K.

In the print issue of Car And Driver Jan 2015, the 10 Best Cars list has a graphic for sales numbers, and of the 10, guess which car is at the bottom of the list? Actually, the Porsche Boxster/Cayman and M235i tied for the honor. The data is for calendar year 2014 through September.

Here's the list:

Honda Accord: 406,000
Mazda 3: 107,000
Ford Mustang: 80,000
Mazda 6: 56,000
Corvette: 35,000
Cadillac CTS: 31,000
VW Golf/GTI: 28,000
Tesla Model S: 24,000
BMW M235i: 7,000
Porsche Boxster/Cayman: 7,000

I hope it stays like that to be honest, because it will only make it a more exclusive car and you won't see a million of them like 328's and 335's.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Each dealer had 7-20 WTF are you smoking? My dealer had an allocation of 16 2 series for the entire calendar year, 228 and M235 total of 16. They launched the i3 which is built in the same factory and there not gearing up until the convertible is available since it will probably be their top selling convertible. The factory is maxed out on capacity and they are going to produce high profit cars and the i3 to meet CAFE numbers. 7-20 per dealer to start makes the OP lose instant credibility.

Sorry, I've been buying cars for 4 decades and don't believe the allocation nonsense for a second. I've seen it all before. Dealers love to make gullible buyers think that there are shortages on the model they want and that they therefore don't have to offer discounts as a result. Sure, sometimes the shortages are real and the wait times are correspondingly long, but there's significant evidence that's not the current situation with the 2 series. If there were such shortages on these cars, then how do you explain the substantial discounts that are now easy to come by, and that so many of us are now able to special order cars and have them roll out of the factory within a short period of time. If there were real shortages of these cars, buyers would be waiting for months for their cars to be produced. Apparently your dealer told you they have an allocation of 16 cars for the entire year. What exactly do you think that means? He/she would love you to believe that means you will be lucky to be able to get 1 of only 16 cars that will be available, but if the dealer took 20 orders for 2 series cars tomorrow, there's no reason they would not be rolling out of the factory within a few weeks. Obviously there's no factory capacity issue. Why would you say the factory is maxed out to capacity? Did your dealer tell you that by any chance? I learned long ago to be suspicious of anything a dealer tells you. Many of them are not even honest with their salespeople.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by shark715

Sorry, I've been buying cars for 4 decades and don't believe the allocation nonsense for a second.

Not to discredit your experience, but allocations don't just roll off the lots because an order is placed. They have build weeks scheduled for every car they will produce for the month and everything is built just in time at the factories. Buying cars and understanding how the company's manufacturing process works are two different things. Different areas of the country have different demands. Here in southern California, dealers are selling all of their allocations.

[chaswyck1]

All I know is that deals on M235i's in SoCal are hard to come by, even from Bimmerfest board sponsors. I was told by several dealers, including a board sponsor that they are not discounting 235i's at all - full MSRP. Easier to get a discount on a 228i but still not in the same ballpark as 3 and even 4 series.

[BMW335iOn18s]

I think there is a shortage of rwd (6mt especially) models. But I just got mine for $5k off MSRP.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

An M2 would be awesome but it's probably going to be out my budget and to be honest 320hp is plenty of power for me. I'm getting a little older and finally starting to learn that it's better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow, it really has sunk in. I don't track my cars so any M would be serious overkill, as far as modding very unlikely. I tend to do very light modding to my cars so it's really important for the OEM setup to be just right. BMW used to have the formula nailed down a few years(E46, E90) ago but not now. I just have a hard time modding a car that i just dropped serious coin on. I love the ride and handling on the 235, its just the steering and brake pedal that disappointed me. My test drive of the 235 was pretty long about an hour however I would request for an overnight test drive before signing any paperwork.

As far as the inventory issue my current dealer has had the same 5, 2 series models for the past couple of months. They do have a sweet estoril blue II that keeps grabbing my attention(great color). But let's be honest sporty 2 door luxurious cars that cost close to $50k are not at the top of everyone's list. That's were the 3 series comes in however i see it as a good thing since it keeps the 2 series a little more rare/exclusive.

An hour? Thats incredible. Woul danyone let you keep one overnight?

[StephanieDiane]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

An hour? Thats incredible. Woul danyone let you keep one overnight?

I have no concept of what's normal so please excuse my ignorance. We test drove for an hour or so then he gave me the keys and let me take it across the bay for lunch (about a 25 minute drive away). He just requested it be back by closing. Do you not normally test drive at least this long?

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

An hour? Thats incredible. Woul danyone let you keep one overnight?

Well I have a pretty good relationship with my local dealer and they always offer overnight test drives. I bought an E46 330i ZHP back in '04 and i kept it overnight for evaulation. My 135i I bought on the spot after the test drive. So it really depends on the dealer and salesperson I guess.

[shazzy04]

There were only four 2 series at my bmw dealer when I purchased mine

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by wjones14

The data is for calendar year 2014 through September.

Here's the list:

Honda Accord: 406,000
Mazda 3: 107,000
Ford Mustang: 80,000
Mazda 6: 56,000
Corvette: 35,000
Cadillac CTS: 31,000
VW Golf/GTI: 28,000
Tesla Model S: 24,000
BMW M235i: 7,000
Porsche Boxster/Cayman: 7,000

This is one of the reasons I bought my M235i and not the Mustang.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by StephanieDiane

I have no concept of what's normal so please excuse my ignorance. We test drove for an hour or so then he gave me the keys and let me take it across the bay for lunch (about a 25 minute drive away). He just requested it be back by closing. Do you not normally test drive at least this long?

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

Well I have a pretty good relationship with my local dealer and they always offer overnight test drives. I bought an E46 330i ZHP back in '04 and i kept it overnight for evaulation. My 135i I bought on the spot after the test drive. So it really depends on the dealer and salesperson I guess.

My dealer throws me keys when I want to try something but I'd never keep it for an hour (maybe I will next time)let alone overnight. What s the point of over night?

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

My dealer throws me keys when I want to try something but I'd never keep it for an hour (maybe I will next time)let alone overnight. What s the point of over night?

You don't truly know a car until you've made a milk run with it...

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

My dealer throws me keys when I want to try something but I'd never keep it for an hour (maybe I will next time)let alone overnight. What s the point of over night?

One of the best ways to truely evaluate a new car is to take it on the same route one takes daily. Those roads are very familar and give you the best feedback to compare it with your current car. Of course if one has a Toyota Corolla and is thinking of trading up for a 235, then a quick drive around the block is all that is needed. A 24hr test drive also lets you try out other things like how the interior lights up in the dark and how good the headlights are. Of course everyone is different but when comparing a BMW to a newer version I prefer a longer time with it to get better acquainted. Buying a car only to figure out that you do not like it a few days later is a serious costly mistake I wish to avoid.

[CF22]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Same in southeastern CT. Dealer there has had 2 xDrive M235i cars on their lot for several months now. Melbourne Red and Alpine White - both optioned over $50K.

In the print issue of Car And Driver Jan 2015, the 10 Best Cars list has a graphic for sales numbers, and of the 10, guess which car is at the bottom of the list? Actually, the Porsche Boxster/Cayman and M235i tied for the honor. The data is for calendar year 2014 through September.

Here's the list:

Honda Accord: 406,000
Mazda 3: 107,000
Ford Mustang: 80,000
Mazda 6: 56,000
Corvette: 35,000
Cadillac CTS: 31,000
VW Golf/GTI: 28,000
Tesla Model S: 24,000
BMW M235i: 7,000
Porsche Boxster/Cayman: 7,000

And according to C&D the 7k is combined for 228i and M235i models.

[scottomfg]

I have a good relationship with my CA and we just signed a deal for $500 over invoice for a RWD manual m235i before any incentives. He said, after we signed, that there were currently 12 open slots for the entire west coast—I have no reason to doubt him. My car has a January build date. Just another data point for the thread.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by scottomfg

I have a good relationship with my CA and we just signed a deal for $500 over invoice for a RWD manual m235i before any incentives. He said, after we signed, that there were currently 12 open slots for the entire west coast—I have no reason to doubt him. My car has a January build date. Just another data point for the thread.

Congrats on a great deal, but if there are only 12 open production slots for the entire West Coast, why would he sell you one at just $500 over invoice? I had four dealers in SoCal, including a Bimmerfest board sponsor tell me they weren't discounting 235's at all.

[scottomfg]

Well, there is no way for me to know. Like I said, we have a good relationship, this will be the second car we've bought from him in a year, they are both leases and I've made it clear our plan is to buy from him when the leases are up, and I went out of my way to leave detailed, truthful, and glowing reviews of both him and the dealership all over the internet for our previous transaction. Also, perhaps it has something to do with basically option in it out to a $52k MSRP? But those are all just guesses--I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

I can say though that we'd been talking about ordering this car with him for a few months and knowing the discount I was looking for he had me wait a bit before he could sign that deal because of demand.

[RDKing2]

We purchased (ordered) our 2015 235 in camarillo from the same dealer we purchased our 04 M3 new. The sales person said I quote "we have plenty of allocations available" While not a spectacular deal, it was not sticker and I despise negotiating so we are happy. The other dealer in thousand oaks we ran into the same thing as when we purchased the M3. They wanted more than sticker and even told me "most dealers are not even honoring the factory incentives" Got a call from the T.O. dealer couple of weeks ago stating they had quite a few new 2's coming in. Called him back and said we had already ordered a car due in this month and we did not pay sticker. Started backtracking saying that I must have misunderstood him. Same old tactics. Even getting it for sticker seems to be a challenge. I hate buying cars.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by chaswyck@yahoo.com

All I know is that deals on M235i's in SoCal are hard to come by, even from Bimmerfest board sponsors. I was told by several dealers, including a board sponsor that they are not discounting 235i's at all - full MSRP. Easier to get a discount on a 228i but still not in the same ballpark as 3 and even 4 series.

Something just doesn't add up here. In So Cal you quickly get more than $2000 off a loaded 235 by just going to Truecar, and this type of discount is available at multiple dealers. What would any dealer be offering $2000 off if they could sell every car they can get at full price? And it's not difficult to beat Truecar's prices by pitting dealer against dealer (just make sure the dealers don't have common ownership). Sure, if a dealer has a very limited number of units in stock, you may find that them to be inflexible on the price of those in stock units, but the factory is filling orders without significant delays, so if you are able to wait for a car ordered to your exact specifications, it's very clear you can get a substantial discount, even in So Cal. If you can't, it sounds like you just need to go to a different dealer.

[shark715]

One more thing to point out is that dealers often have off site storage for additional inventory, and they may have more cars available than the salespeople would lead you to believe. Last year my niece was in the market for a new Z4, and the saleswoman at the local dealer claimed they are a limited production vehicle, hard to get, and that they would not discount them at all. We went back to the same saleswoman several weeks later, and she forgot what she previously told us. When we told her what color combination we were looking for, all of the sudden it turned out they magically had one with the exact colors she wanted. She drove us down the street to a remote storage facility, and guess what...they had eight Z4's there. So much for it being hard to get. Beware of anything and everything that a dealer tells you.

[hyperzulu]

I consider myself pretty well informed on the subject, so while I appreciate those anecdotes, they don't apply. Besides, the dealer can't hide inventory of you wanted to check what they had online. Heck my euro delivery vehicle showed up in inventory and triggered several inquiries to my dealer about it. Do some sales people lie? Yes. Does that mean they are lying about these cars? No. Like it was mentioned, some areas may see little interest in the 2er. Southern California is not one of those areas. Based on what I see on here, things are not much better in some other areas either. So many people are complaining that they put in an order and are stuck waiting for it to go into production. This only happens because the dealer has no allocations. They would not sit on an order if they have an order to fill. A car sold in the pipeline is better than a car sitting on the lot taking up space. This is not a nation wide conspiracy and arguing that something is amiss is not going to blow wide open the scam dealers are playing on us. There just simply aren't a lot of these being built.

The X5 is also another car that doesn't get much discount, but those are somewhat more common. Same principle applies though. More demand than supply so little discount and incentives offered.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I consider myself pretty well informed on the subject, so while I appreciate those anecdotes, they don't apply. Besides, the dealer can't hide inventory of you wanted to check what they had online. Heck my euro delivery vehicle showed up in inventory and triggered several inquiries to my dealer about it. Do some sales people lie? Yes. Does that mean they are lying about these cars? No. Like it was mentioned, some areas may see little interest in the 2er. Southern California is not one of those areas. Based on what I see on here, things are not much better in some other areas either. So many people are complaining that they put in an order and are stuck waiting for it to go into production. This only happens because the dealer has no allocations. They would not sit on an order if they have an order to fill. A car sold in the pipeline is better than a car sitting on the lot taking up space. This is not a nation wide conspiracy and arguing that something is amiss is not going to blow wide open the scam dealers are playing on us. There just simply aren't a lot of these being built.

The X5 is also another car that doesn't get much discount, but those are somewhat more common. Same principle applies though. More demand than supply so little discount and incentives offered.

I never said or implied that dealers purposely hide inventory, and I never said or implied that there is some nationwide conspiracy...jeez. What I did say is that sometimes salespeople will try to justify a high price by citing the scarcity of the model the customer is interested in, and I cited a recent example that happened to be another BMW model. This is not unique to the 2 series. At least in my area, dealer on line inventory is often inaccurate. You yourself cited an example. While it's clear that there's no oversupply of these cars, there's no shortage either, even in So Cal. If there was, you would not see dealers offering substantial discounts, and you would not see plenty of So Cal forum members here who have had no trouble getting their special orders filled by the factory within a few weeks. I continue to say that if you are having trouble getting a significant discount or if they are telling you there will be a long delay with the factory filling your order, it's solely because you are at the wrong dealer.