[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by W///

I'm not sold. The 1M vs the E9x was more apples to oranges than anything. In one corner you have a high strung V8 in a decently heavy car against a much lighter car with much more torque. I mean if you are looking at purely 0-60 numbers and things like that, the E9x can easily get outrun my a modified 335i, it doesn't take much.

But I think this M2 vs M3/4 is a completely new ball game. We are talking turbo 6 vs turbo 6 here. Will it come close in real world conditions? Possibly. But I will bet you anything in the press or brochures will say that the M2 will be slower to 60 mph and slower on the Ring than an M3/4.

Having said that, I couldn't care less. I wouldn't purchase a car for the numbers alone. Like the 1M, I hope it has a hell of a personality.

Agreed. I think it's hard to use the 1M as a rational basis for how BMW will treat the M2 because of the context in which the 1M was made:

• The 1M was, allegedly, an engineering driven car (the entire idea for the car started from the engineering dept, not the product dept).
• Produced in very limited numbers, so it was never a real threat to the E9x M3.
• Produced very late in the E9x M3's life-cycle, thus less attention was paid to protecting the poster-child performance car.
• Entirely different formula than its sibling: I6T, MT only, much shorter wheelbase, versus the perennial GT coupe form-factor of the M3 with offerings like the DCT.

The most significant thing on that list being that the idea for the car didn't start in the product department. Product managers look very carefully at how the line up fits together. The engineering department just thinks, "Gee, wouldn't it be awesome if we put the M3 suspension bits on this tiny little car and wrapped it in some wicked looking body work. Oh, and let's breath on the motor a bit while we're at it."

The M2 is being planned and slotted in to the BMW M-car line up. Additionally, BMW continues to build a very fine-grained product line up. I will be very surprised if the M2 matches the M3/4 in straight-line performance. However, I think it is likely that the M2 will outperform the M3/4 in handling, if not road holding.

Look at the M3/4 vs the M5. The M5 bests the M3/4 in straight-line performance, but the lighter weight of the M3/4 allows for better handling. In other words, the M3/4 makes up for its power deficit with finesse. I look for BMW to use the same formula with the M2.

Note the communications from BMW (or at least SCOTT26) that "the horsepower wars are over". They're not just talking about their competitors, they're telegraphing the alignment of their own product line. BMW will offer a full spectrum of cars that range in focus from small, lightweight, handling focused cars to large, heavyweight, autobahn crushers like the M5 and M6 GC. The M3/4 represents the pinnacle of balance (sound familiar?). The M2 will be smaller, lighter, and less powerful, but it will make up for these attributes by being nimble and responsive in a way that the larger cars simply cannot.

That's my prediction anyway.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Oh dear sweet Jesus, thank you for the last three renders.
As soon as I finish masturbating to these pics I will respond...









Okay. Finished.
I will be hard pressed to choose between the MG and full-on Darth Vader (ironically, based on the front end shapes, that's what I was thinking this would look like in black on my morning commute this morning when I was fantasizing about this sexy beast.

FWIW, I think, even if 0-60 an Nurbergring numbers are 100% identical, there is still plenty of room to differentiate between the M2 and M4. One is larger: larger and smaller both appeal to plenty of people for a variety of reasons. If it didn't, the M6 wouldn't sell. Who needs a coupe that big? Nobody. Who WANTS one? plenty of people. Then there is the matter of style and aesthetics. Aston Martin and Jaguar sit firmly in the same market segment, but plenty of people choose both. Finally, the M3/4 can be the "prestige" model with all the techie bells and whistles, while the M2 can be the stripped down beast for those who don't care about being a tech showcase - just a pure driving car.

Either way, this will be my DD. I once thought about having a DD and a weekend fun car. But I realized that I would never end up using my DD. What is the point? I want to enjoy my daily drive every day too!
DD M2 FTW!!

Needed a little private moment there?

I agree. Whether they do or don't have similar performance numbers, they will be different cars, pure and simple. I got to test drive an M235i and M4 back to back and the size difference is noticeable.

Believe it or not, I'm really good at swapping cars back and forth haha. E92 is my weekend car, 4Runner is more or less the definitely of a true beater, and the E36 is somewhere in between the 2. If I didn't have big dogs, it'd be easier to consolidate all the cars into one. Personally, I just cannot get rid of the E92 (too much sentimental value, modded the way I want, almost paid off, love the S65 too damn much), but the M2 will be the PERFECT replacement for my E36, which so happens to be an appreciating asset IMHO, and will be used as a down payment for the M2. And the 4Runner, that thing has close to 300k miles and isn't worth anything so might as well keep it.

I'm already drooling at the prospect of this.

P.S. I'm assuming and planning for mass ED to be spring/early summer 2016

[W///]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Agreed. I think it's hard to use the 1M as a rational basis for how BMW will treat the M2 because of the context in which the 1M was made:

• The 1M was, allegedly, an engineering driven car (the entire idea for the car started from the engineering dept, not the product dept).
• Produced in very limited numbers, so it was never a real threat to the E9x M3.
• Produced very late in the E9x M3's life-cycle, thus less attention was paid to protecting the poster-child performance car.
• Entirely different formula than its sibling: I6T, MT only, much shorter wheelbase, versus the perennial GT coupe form-factor of the M3 with offerings like the DCT.

The most significant thing on that list being that the idea for the car didn't start in the product department. Product managers look very carefully at how the line up fits together. The engineering department just thinks, "Gee, wouldn't it be awesome if we put the M3 suspension bits on this tiny little car and wrapped it in some wicked looking body work. Oh, and let's breath on the motor a bit while we're at it."

The M2 is being planned and slotted in to the BMW M-car line up. Additionally, BMW continues to build a very fine-grained product line up. I will be very surprised if the M2 matches the M3/4 in straight-line performance. However, I think it is likely that the M2 will outperform the M3/4 in handling, if not road holding.

Look at the M3/4 vs the M5. The M5 bests the M3/4 in straight-line performance, but the lighter weight of the M3/4 allows for better handling. In other words, the M3/4 makes up for its power deficit with finesse. I look for BMW to use the same formula with the M2.

Note the communications from BMW (or at least SCOTT26) that "the horsepower wars are over". They're not just talking about their competitors, they're telegraphing the alignment of their own product line. BMW will offer a full spectrum of cars that range in focus from small, lightweight, handling focused cars to large, heavyweight, autobahn crushers like the M5 and M6 GC. The M3/4 represents the pinnacle of balance (sound familiar?). The M2 will be smaller, lighter, and less powerful, but it will make up for these attributes by being nimble and responsive in a way that the larger cars simply cannot.

That's my prediction anyway.

Bingo. Great post and I absolutely agree

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Agreed. I think it's hard to use the 1M as a rational basis for how BMW will treat the M2 because of the context in which the 1M was made:

• The 1M was, allegedly, an engineering driven car (the entire idea for the car started from the engineering dept, not the product dept).
• Produced in very limited numbers, so it was never a real threat to the E9x M3.
• Produced very late in the E9x M3's life-cycle, thus less attention was paid to protecting the poster-child performance car.
• Entirely different formula than its sibling: I6T, MT only, much shorter wheelbase, versus the perennial GT coupe form-factor of the M3 with offerings like the DCT.

The most significant thing on that list being that the idea for the car didn't start in the product department. Product managers look very carefully at how the line up fits together. The engineering department just thinks, "Gee, wouldn't it be awesome if we put the M3 suspension bits on this tiny little car and wrapped it in some wicked looking body work. Oh, and let's breath on the motor a bit while we're at it."

The M2 is being planned and slotted in to the BMW M-car line up. Additionally, BMW continues to build a very fine-grained product line up. I will be very surprised if the M2 matches the M3/4 in straight-line performance. However, I think it is likely that the M2 will outperform the M3/4 in handling, if not road holding.

Look at the M3/4 vs the M5. The M5 bests the M3/4 in straight-line performance, but the lighter weight of the M3/4 allows for better handling. In other words, the M3/4 makes up for its power deficit with finesse. I look for BMW to use the same formula with the M2.

Note the communications from BMW (or at least SCOTT26) that "the horsepower wars are over". They're not just talking about their competitors, they're telegraphing the alignment of their own product line. BMW will offer a full spectrum of cars that range in focus from small, lightweight, handling focused cars to large, heavyweight, autobahn crushers like the M5 and M6 GC. The M3/4 represents the pinnacle of balance (sound familiar?). The M2 will be smaller, lighter, and less powerful, but it will make up for these attributes by being nimble and responsive in a way that the larger cars simply cannot.

That's my prediction anyway.

This.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by W///

Needed a little private moment there?

I agree. Whether they do or don't have similar performance numbers, they will be different cars, pure and simple. I got to test drive an M235i and M4 back to back and the size difference is noticeable.

Believe it or not, I'm really good at swapping cars back and forth haha. E92 is my weekend car, 4Runner is more or less the definitely of a true beater, and the E36 is somewhere in between the 2. If I didn't have big dogs, it'd be easier to consolidate all the cars into one. Personally, I just cannot get rid of the E92 (too much sentimental value, modded the way I want, almost paid off, love the S65 too damn much), but the M2 will be the PERFECT replacement for my E36, which so happens to be an appreciating asset IMHO, and will be used as a down payment for the M2. And the 4Runner, that thing has close to 300k miles and isn't worth anything so might as well keep it.

I'm already drooling at the prospect of this.

P.S. I'm assuming and planning for mass ED to be spring/early summer 2016

Damn, that is a sexy M3!

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by OverDriven

It's funny how people on this forum seem to think that there are only 2 numbers that matter in a car - weight and power. It doesn't matter if the M2 is as fast as the M4. There will be many other differences between the cars that put them in their particular price bracket.

People that think that power to weight ratio does not matter for high performance vehicles, should not be posting in this thread.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Damn, that is a sexy M3!

Thanks! She's definitely a keeper

[Cavpilot2k]

What are those wheels?

[W///]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

What are those wheels?

19" HRE C20

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

The M2 is being planned and slotted in to the BMW M-car line up. Additionally, BMW continues to build a very fine-grained product line up. I will be very surprised if the M2 matches the M3/4 in straight-line performance. However, I think it is likely that the M2 will outperform the M3/4 in handling, if not road holding.

Look at the M3/4 vs the M5. The M5 bests the M3/4 in straight-line performance, but the lighter weight of the M3/4 allows for better handling. In other words, the M3/4 makes up for its power deficit with finesse. I look for BMW to use the same formula with the M2.

That's my prediction anyway.

Understood and appreciated. Just not sure I agree wholesale yet.

Your point about the M5 vs M3/4 is based on physics, which I agree with. All things being equal:

-The lighter car is usually going to be the more nimble
-The car with the most horsepower generally is going to be the faster

I don't think for a second that the M professors said, "Let's make the M5 faster, but the M4 handle better." I think they made the M5 faster because they can make it faster in a straight line and keep the character of the car intact. I think the M4 handles better because it's smaller and they can make it handle better, due to it's smaller size.

I think if BMW M Division is going to make any car, they are going to make it as badass as is practical for the class of car. Dropping a v8 into a 2 series is impractical as it messes with the F/R weight balance. They wouldn't do that. Just like we won't see a 4 door Z4M anytime soon. Not what that class of car is about.

1 Series M
I get your point about engineering vs. product divisions, etc. I just don't believe it's that fine-grained. I think it's more likely that the company saw an opportunity to play with a new platform and see what their M division boys could (quickly) wring out of it. I think they made it as badass as they could, given the time/resources they were alotted, and gave zero thought to the M3 performance specs.

"Let's make it as fast as we can and handle as good as possible."

Like the 1 series itself, it was an experiment (and therefore low run) to see if folks would buy their small, beast of a sport's coupe. They did.

M2
Several things have happened now:
-The experiment of the 1 series has proven positive. Witness the evolutionary, better-looking, better-handling, more-civilized 2 series.
-The success of the M235i has been widespread. One of the most positively reviewed cars from BMW in years. Hmmm…small/fast/civil can work
-The competition has noticed. Note the CLA45 AMG, Subaru STI, Audi S3, Golf R and other pocket rockets approaching in the rearview mirror. Some more soft, some more sinister. Regardless, I smell a new market segment.

Given these points (especially the last one), I think BMW could care less about any sibling rivalry.
They need to (and will) make the best small sport's coupe from the 2 series that they can. Period.

I'm sure they have targets for where the M2 slots and its approximate MSRP. However, I think if they can make it quicker than an M4 and not lose the character of a good-handleing car…they will. The fact that the 1M carbon-copied the M3 specs (however aged the M3 platform was) proves to me that there's no respect shown to big brother.

BMW knows that folks will buy mostly on size/capacity
People who want a 2 seat roadster experience are going to get a Z4.
Folks that want a pocket rocket with a usable trunk and can squeeze in 4 folks in a pinch will opt for the M2.
The larger crowd that wants the punchy, mid-sized sedan that outsells all other car sizes, will opt for the M 3/4.
Those trying to make the "I have arrived" statement with a living room…yet who still want to roll hard at times will buy the M5.

But I believe all the M cars are built with the intention to be the best they can be…within the the chassis and budget categories they sit in.

The M2 may not turn out as fast/capable as the M3/4. But until it's here, I wouldn't bet on that.

:-)

[W///]

Bottom line is this. If they wanted to make the M2 a no compromise car (aka don't care about stepping on M3/4 feet), they would have just dropped an s55 in the M2 and called it a day. But we know that's not happening.

And it's also likely that the M2 will not be THAT much lighter than a stripper M4. Let's assume we get lucky we get cf parts and an aluminum hood, that's not going to drop that much weight from that 3500 lbs.

So let's recap: 50 + hp less power than M3/4, if not more, we'll see about weight. How is that going to be as quick as an M3/4?

I will say though, I have no doubt it'll be a more playful car than its big brothers. And that's all I care about personally

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

People that think that power to weight ratio does not matter for high performance vehicles, should not be posting in this thread.

Yeah,don't know wtf that rational was all about. Power to weight is simplistic as it gets

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

The M2 may not turn out as fast/capable as the M3/4. But until it's here, I wouldn't bet on that.

:-)

Lots of great points to mull over there. The competition from Mercedes and Audi certainly is a wildcard. BMW doesn't have a lot of room to tone the M2 down. It more or less has to be nipping at the heels of the M3/4 to stay ahead of the competition.

Man, this has been a great thread.

[W///]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Lots of great points to mull over there. The competition from Mercedes and Audi certainly is a wildcard. BMW doesn't have a lot of room to tone the M2 down. It more or less has to be nipping at the heels of the M3/4 to stay ahead of the competition.

Man, this has been a great thread.

I might be one of the few that thinks BMW is ahead in that regard. The M235i is already competing against the CLA45 AMG and has done rather well. Not to mention if they do a Black Series, the price will be up there IMHO. We'll see what the RS3 brings to the table

[OverDriven]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

People that think that power to weight ratio does not matter for high performance vehicles, should not be posting in this thread.

And people who can't read REALLY should not be posting. I didn't say they don't matter. I said they are not the only factor that differentiates the M models.

[Bohemoth]

Love the renders! would like to see them available in Java green!

Only got my 2 series last month but already planning buying one of these!

[Artemis]

If info of the past (July 30, 2014) is still accurate as we speak, launch color for the M2 (or M2 concept) will be a new ///M color: either some sort of new orange, a new red or a new blue.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

They have new specific M colours developed but in no way have they confirmed what models they will be applied to. As for Specific M colours that have been created there is a sort of burnt Orange metallic a sort of Kyalami Orange remix, a new Red colour kind of like a much brighter Sedona Red and yes a new Blue.
Despite being the launch colour for the 135i Coupe the order rate was not successful hence why it was replaced at the LCi.
What cars they will come with is anybody's guess at this time.
After the new BMW X5M and X6M that will be launched later this year. The M2 will be the next all-new M car. There will be a hiatus until the next M5 but in between there will be the M4 GTS which could use the Orange colour as a nod to Fire Orange.

[IEDEI]

looks a bit soft....then again the 2-series in general is just a soft looking car. not exactly a memorable design...

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

looks a bit soft....then again the 2-series in general is just a soft looking car. not exactly a memorable design...

These renders look the opposite of soft in my opinion

[OverDriven]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

looks a bit soft....then again the 2-series in general is just a soft looking car. not exactly a memorable design...

I agree, but most of BMW's recent designs are soft. Look at the entire back half of the M4 - it's an amorphous blob with no sense of purpose. Luckily, the M3 doesn't have that problem.

[1&done]

Nice job, just not sure about the M2..it's too cute, maybe the wife will like it...or the local hipsters...hoping it will toughen up in the next yr+ if not it will be a great tickle fighter

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by W///

Needed a little private moment there?

I agree. Whether they do or don't have similar performance numbers, they will be different cars, pure and simple. I got to test drive an M235i and M4 back to back and the size difference is noticeable.

Believe it or not, I'm really good at swapping cars back and forth haha. E92 is my weekend car, 4Runner is more or less the definitely of a true beater, and the E36 is somewhere in between the 2. If I didn't have big dogs, it'd be easier to consolidate all the cars into one. Personally, I just cannot get rid of the E92 (too much sentimental value, modded the way I want, almost paid off, love the S65 too damn much), but the M2 will be the PERFECT replacement for my E36, which so happens to be an appreciating asset IMHO, and will be used as a down payment for the M2. And the 4Runner, that thing has close to 300k miles and isn't worth anything so might as well keep it.

I'm already drooling at the prospect of this.

P.S. I'm assuming and planning for mass ED to be spring/early summer 2016

You are going to have one hell of a garage. You'll have the best of both worlds of BMW.