Luddites beware! New Features in the ZF 8 Speed

mdputnam · 10-06-2016, 11:43 AM

While perusing BMW blurbs on the improvements in the M240i I ran across two interesting items that I don't think anyone has mentioned here concerning the upgraded ZF 8-speed installed in the M240i. The first is:

"The alternative of accomplishing several downshifts unlocks to even more vibrant gearshifts and especially swift reactions to movements in the accelerator."

One thing I miss when switching between our 7-speed double clutch 135i and the M235i 8-speed is the ability to request multiple down shifts ahead of time. For example, coming to the end of a straight just before standing on the brakes, with the 7 speed double clutch transmission you can tap the down shift paddle three times and let the computer decide when to down shift 3 times during deceleration. With the eight-speed hit the down shift 3 times and it would only down shift once. From the above description it sounds like the new ZF 8-speed will behave more like the double clutch transmission.

The next feature is really bizarre. The transmission management system is looking ahead using the navigation system to determine its response! That is the last refuge of manual transmission technical advantages, i.e. using the nut behind the wheel to adjust gear change behavior based on the road ahead.

"Thanks to the 8-speed Steptronic transmission from BMW EfficientDynamics, it is now possible to actively boost performance in vehicles with the new Predictive Drive Train via the Driving Experience Control. In the "Sport" mode, the transmission management uses data from the navigation system to deliver a level of responsiveness that is even more dynamic and spontaneous based on route characteristics."

Luddites beware!

BMW and ZF are slowly peeling away reasons to build manual transmissions

BMWZ4 · 10-06-2016, 12:27 PM

Wow. Predictive Drive Train behavior. Gotta love software engineers. Thanks for sharing.

Y0tsuya · 10-06-2016, 12:38 PM

Why would I want that though? I should get to decide how "dynamic" or "spontaneous" the car should be, not an inscrutable algorithm. I had that adaptive crap on my G35 (and how my 340i) and I hate having to reset the ECU and wondering if it's really learning what I want it to learn. And now they're piling this on top of it? No thanks.

mtmasterrace

pz619 · 10-06-2016, 01:06 PM

That's why I use the manual mode

amw896 · 10-06-2016, 01:13 PM

I thought the ZF already did this....weak

1LegitM235i · 10-06-2016, 01:40 PM

This new Predictive drive train maybe the way of the future for BMW. I'm still optimistic about the 8 speed auto. I drove one from a 235 and wasn't too impress with it and wasn't aware of the "special" down shift ability. Pretty cool to have that three down shift ability on the 135. It'll be awhile before I consider an auto, but BMW will have to prove to me that they're as good as the PDKs first before I consider one.

dtcoff · 10-07-2016, 08:07 AM

My ZF8 has always done multiple downshifts. I always drive in manual mode, so maybe it doesn't do it if in D.

krhodes1 · 10-07-2016, 09:02 AM

They debuted the predictive features using GPS on the Rolls Royce Phantom a couple years ago, but I am surprised they have brought it down to the entry level this fast.

I'll still buy an automatic (given a choice) when my left leg falls off though.

Viffermike · 10-07-2016, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtcoff

My ZF8 has always done multiple downshifts. I always drive in manual mode, so maybe it doesn't do it if in D.

Oh yes it does.

At nearly any point while the car's in motion, if you depress the accelerator to the floor -- even for a split second -- the ZF8 will automatically switch to the lowest gear that will run below redline. In some modes and at some speeds, the ZF skips three gears.

I use the technique all the time to get by people lickety-split quick-like.

raleedy · 10-07-2016, 12:55 PM

Skip downshifts have been a feature of BMW's ZF8 since its introduction in 2010.

allthatisntnow · 10-07-2016, 06:44 PM

The predictive transmission using the sat nav has been in the lower tier models for a good while now. Even the 2013 F56 minis have it with the aisin box. They've probably just reworded the feature list.

moldcad · 10-08-2016, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Oh yes it does.

At nearly any point while the car's in motion, if you depress the accelerator to the floor -- even for a split second -- the ZF8 will automatically switch to the lowest gear that will run below redline. In some modes and at some speeds, the ZF skips three gears.

I use the technique all the time to get by people lickety-split quick-like.

It does it even better (faster) if - when kicking-down - you keep the left paddle pulled.

Piotr

BentZero · 10-08-2016, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdputnam

While perusing BMW blurbs on the improvements in the M240i I ran across two interesting items that I don't think anyone has mentioned here concerning the upgraded ZF 8-speed installed in the M240i. The first is:

"The alternative of accomplishing several downshifts unlocks to even more vibrant gearshifts and especially swift reactions to movements in the accelerator."

One thing I miss when switching between our 7-speed double clutch 135i and the M235i 8-speed is the ability to request multiple down shifts ahead of time. For example, coming to the end of a straight just before standing on the brakes, with the 7 speed double clutch transmission you can tap the down shift paddle three times and let the computer decide when to down shift 3 times during deceleration. With the eight-speed hit the down shift 3 times and it would only down shift once. From the above description it sounds like the new ZF 8-speed will behave more like the double clutch transmission.

The next feature is really bizarre. The transmission management system is looking ahead using the navigation system to determine its response! That is the last refuge of manual transmission technical advantages, i.e. using the nut behind the wheel to adjust gear change behavior based on the road ahead.

"Thanks to the 8-speed Steptronic transmission from BMW EfficientDynamics, it is now possible to actively boost performance in vehicles with the new Predictive Drive Train via the Driving Experience Control. In the "Sport" mode, the transmission management uses data from the navigation system to deliver a level of responsiveness that is even more dynamic and spontaneous based on route characteristics."

Luddites beware!

BMW and ZF are slowly peeling away reasons to build manual transmissions

Lol, that's like saying that soon we won't have brake pedals because of advancements in active braking systems. The only thing that's going to kill the manual trans is lack of interest and maybe fuel efficiency concerns.

pikcachu · 10-08-2016, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BentZero

Lol, that's like saying that soon we won't have brake pedals because of advancements in active braking systems. The only thing that's going to kill the manual trans is lack of interest and maybe fuel efficiency concerns.

No, what's going to kill manual transmission is electric cars

BentZero · 10-08-2016, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Quote:

Originally Posted by BentZero

Lol, that's like saying that soon we won't have brake pedals because of advancements in active braking systems. The only thing that's going to kill the manual trans is lack of interest and maybe fuel efficiency concerns.

No, what's going to kill manual transmission is electric cars

haha, too true

10-06-2016, 11:43 AM	#1
mdputnam Lieutenant 289 Rep 556 Posts Drives: 135i & M235i Convertibles Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Luddites beware! New Features in the ZF 8 Speed While perusing BMW blurbs on the improvements in the M240i I ran across two interesting items that I don't think anyone has mentioned here concerning the upgraded ZF 8-speed installed in the M240i. The first is: "The alternative of accomplishing several downshifts unlocks to even more vibrant gearshifts and especially swift reactions to movements in the accelerator." One thing I miss when switching between our 7-speed double clutch 135i and the M235i 8-speed is the ability to request multiple down shifts ahead of time. For example, coming to the end of a straight just before standing on the brakes, with the 7 speed double clutch transmission you can tap the down shift paddle three times and let the computer decide when to down shift 3 times during deceleration. With the eight-speed hit the down shift 3 times and it would only down shift once. From the above description it sounds like the new ZF 8-speed will behave more like the double clutch transmission. The next feature is really bizarre. The transmission management system is looking ahead using the navigation system to determine its response! That is the last refuge of manual transmission technical advantages, i.e. using the nut behind the wheel to adjust gear change behavior based on the road ahead. "Thanks to the 8-speed Steptronic transmission from BMW EfficientDynamics, it is now possible to actively boost performance in vehicles with the new Predictive Drive Train via the Driving Experience Control. In the "Sport" mode, the transmission management uses data from the navigation system to deliver a level of responsiveness that is even more dynamic and spontaneous based on route characteristics." Luddites beware! BMW and ZF are slowly peeling away reasons to build manual transmissions
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10-06-2016, 12:27 PM	#2
BMWZ4 Major General 1910 Rep 5,105 Posts Drives: '23 X1/'23 Allroad Progressiv Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Toronto iTrader: (1)	Wow. Predictive Drive Train behavior. Gotta love software engineers. Thanks for sharing. __________________ '11 Z4 30i (retired);'11 X3 28i (retired); '15 M235i Stage 1 Dinan (recalled & crushed); '16 M235i Stage 3 Dinan (retired); '15 X3 28i (retired); '14 328i (retired), 2019 X3M40i (retired); Loaded '18 X1 (retired); Loaded '20 X3MC DG, Black/Tan Merino (retired); Loaded '23 X1 Cape York green and Red/Black interior; '23 Audi A4 Allroad Progressiv
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10-06-2016, 12:38 PM	#3
Y0tsuya Second Lieutenant 77 Rep 261 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i 6MT, 2016 340i 8AT Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Why would I want that though? I should get to decide how "dynamic" or "spontaneous" the car should be, not an inscrutable algorithm. I had that adaptive crap on my G35 (and how my 340i) and I hate having to reset the ECU and wondering if it's really learning what I want it to learn. And now they're piling this on top of it? No thanks. mtmasterrace Last edited by Y0tsuya; 10-06-2016 at 12:43 PM..
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10-06-2016, 01:06 PM	#4
pz619 Brigadier General 3279 Rep 3,256 Posts Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla 3 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: San Diego iTrader: (1)	That's why I use the manual mode
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10-06-2016, 01:13 PM	#5
amw896 Major 583 Rep 1,117 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW M235i Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: ontario iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 BMW M235i [10.00]	I thought the ZF already did this....weak
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10-06-2016, 01:40 PM	#6
1LegitM235i 1L 156 Rep 336 Posts Drives: 2015 Glacier Silver M235i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: City of Crosses, NM iTrader: (0)	This new Predictive drive train maybe the way of the future for BMW. I'm still optimistic about the 8 speed auto. I drove one from a 235 and wasn't too impress with it and wasn't aware of the "special" down shift ability. Pretty cool to have that three down shift ability on the 135. It'll be awhile before I consider an auto, but BMW will have to prove to me that they're as good as the PDKs first before I consider one. __________________ 2015 Glacier Silver M235i/6MT MP Front Splitter//MP CF Short Shifter//MP CF E-brake//MP LSD//Cold Weather package//Driver Assistance package//Oyster Dakota leather//Aluminum Hexagon trim//ECS Tuning Wheel Spacers//AutoPlus Rear Diffuser//HUD//Rexing DashCam//AutoID M Mirror Caps
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10-07-2016, 08:07 AM	#7
dtcoff First Lieutenant 49 Rep 374 Posts Drives: 2014 F22 M235i Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sydney iTrader: (0)	My ZF8 has always done multiple downshifts. I always drive in manual mode, so maybe it doesn't do it if in D. __________________ 2014 M235i / EB-II / Coral / Sunroof / Comfort & Parking Packages 2014 X3 3.0d / M sport / AW / Sunroof
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10-07-2016, 09:02 AM	#8
krhodes1 Colonel 1436 Rep 2,526 Posts Drives: 2011 328i Wagon Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Westbrook, Maine, Port Charlotte, Florida iTrader: (1) Garage List 2011 128i [10.00] 2011 BMW 328i Touring [10.00]	They debuted the predictive features using GPS on the Rolls Royce Phantom a couple years ago, but I am surprised they have brought it down to the entry level this fast. I'll still buy an automatic (given a choice) when my left leg falls off though. __________________ '11 328! Touring - Tasman on Chestnut, 6spd manual, factory upside-down "i" option '11 128i Convertible - Space Gray on Savannah Beige, 6spd manual, also '14 Mercedes-Benz E350 wagon, '95 Land Rover Discovery, '74 Triumph Spitfire
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10-07-2016, 12:55 PM	#10
raleedy Colonel 160 Rep 2,248 Posts Drives: 2016 228i 6-speed Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	Skip downshifts have been a feature of BMW's ZF8 since its introduction in 2010.
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10-07-2016, 06:44 PM	#11
allthatisntnow Lieutenant 377 Rep 596 Posts Drives: BMW M2C, 991 C2 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: North East iTrader: (0)	The predictive transmission using the sat nav has been in the lower tier models for a good while now. Even the 2013 F56 minis have it with the aisin box. They've probably just reworded the feature list.
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