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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum BIMMERPOST BMW M235i Drive - In Depth Review From Las Vegas [VIDEO REVIEW ADDED]

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      01-20-2014, 03:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam@Bimmerpost View Post
Thank you!

About weight, the M235i does feel its weight. The extra bulk can be felt quite apparently in the tight handling course, especially during direction changes. The feeling is that of quite a bit of momentum to herd around. It's well managed and very predictable, but my dream would be to see a street legal competition version, stripped down and lose 2-300 lbs. Dreaming, I know, but let's see what they do if/when they release an M2!

In terms of comparing weight to E90 M3, we have to remember that the M3 was no lightweight either. The M3 masked this very well with a very fast ratio steering system and an aggressive suspension set up. But I remember the tire wear on my own M3 (especially the fronts) and this reinforces the notion that BMWs have become quite heavy and are set up to mask that mass as tightly as possible. The penalty seems to be rapid tire wear. Of course, I prefer to have just a lighter car to begin with.



I'm seeing a few comments about my comparison to the E90 M3's steering feel. I want to clarify that I am comparing specifically the 'feel' based on the metrics I described in the beginning of the article, not necessarily the entire system.

As a whole, I still prefer the E90 M3's steering because we mustn't forget that steering is inextricably tied to suspension and the E90 M3 had a more focused suspension and it cornered more satisfyingly as a result.

What I am really saying is that in terms of 'feel', the EPS in the M235i is not bad at all and certainly no worse than the E90 M3's hydraulic in 'feel'. This does not necessarily imply that every part of the steering experience is just as good, but I would say it's not that far off!

Sam, have you ever driven a Z4M or have any comments on how it would compare to the M235i? Not just in steering but overall.
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      01-20-2014, 03:40 PM   #24
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Thanks for the informative review Sam.

As someone who's also had some time behind the wheel of an FRS I'd be interested in hearing some more comparisons between that and the 2 in terms of ride and handling.
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      01-20-2014, 03:42 PM   #25
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Sam, re the turbo comment you did say "twin scroll" and not "twin turbo" as Wakka incorrectly noted so no worries.

I, like StealYourFace and BlackJetE90 am considering a lighter 228 vs the 235. I'm thinking no moonroof and manual seats which is almost another 90 lbs lighter and adding more M Performance bits....

Is it true that the M Performance suspension eliminates the active suspension?
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      01-20-2014, 03:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscr972 View Post
Is it true that the M Performance suspension eliminates the active suspension?
Yes. For serious driving, a traditional passive damper is still king.
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      01-20-2014, 04:01 PM   #27
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A fairly thorough analysis that leaves me confident that I was smart to have recently extended my warranty on my 2010 135i Msport coupe with M Performance Power Kit.
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      01-20-2014, 05:21 PM   #28
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If the EPS system in my 991 can feel the way it feels then I am sure BMW can do the same thing... Drive a 991 to see IMHO the best EPS syst in the industry
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      01-20-2014, 06:21 PM   #29
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Nice review.
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      01-20-2014, 06:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dencoop
If the EPS system in my 991 can feel the way it feels then I am sure BMW can do the same thing... Drive a 991 to see IMHO the best EPS syst in the industry
Most if not all reviews have praised the 991's electric steering. I personally haven't driven one but one doesn't have to such an extreme to see what good EPS. The R56 MINI has a good steering setup and I find it's a lot better than the initial F30 setup. For me that's what annoyed me when I test drove the F30. It wasn't like the F30 was BMW's first attempt at it, they already had it in the R56 and to see what they did to the F30 was disappointing. Now there are other factors to consider like suspension and the MINI has a hard one which helps provide better steering but this maybe furthers the idea that perhaps BMW made the 3 a bit too soft because even in sport mode, it's still not as good as the MINI.

Just my 0.02.
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      01-20-2014, 06:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealYourFace View Post
I love the look of the car.

Nice review from somebody that understands how to convey what I am looking for in a description.

I am somewhat disheartened by the adaptive suspension being the only one available. Where does that leave the car for making changes? If I understand correctly, the swaybars adjust as you drive, so fitting bigger sway bars wouldn't be possible, right?

A 228i M sport, with the 'fixed' suspension, lighter weight, and shorter gear ratios may really be the enthusiast car, esp if the lsd fits (it should, same size carrier). Toss in a quality set of coilovers, mild tune and call it good.

Or I am completely off and the stock m235i is just that good out of the box

Bring the M2! Good time to be a bmw fan.
The shocks and struts adjust, NOT the sway bars. Adaptive suspensions these days are pretty good, and should outperform standard suspensions for most attributes.

Read my post HERE for more info on how they work.

Long story short, you can replace the adaptive suspension dampers with coil-overs and make whatever modifications you want to the car just like normal. But if you want KEEP the adaptive function, you're better off leaving the whole system stock, as changes to other parts in the system can confuse the suspension ECU. Kind of like making major engine mods without a tune, except at the moment, there's no "tune" for adaptive suspensions (except Dinan's shockware for the F10).
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      01-20-2014, 06:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Yes. For serious driving, a traditional passive damper is still king.
This isn't true, a modern adaptive system should easily outperform a non adaptive set-up. The real reason the M-performance system isn't adaptive is cost.

A dealer installed or aftermarket retrofit of an OEM quality adaptive system would cost thousands of dollars.
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      01-20-2014, 06:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brio View Post
I doubt it.

Different reviews, different opinions.
No, the M235i likely DOES have a different steering system than the M135i. At the very least, it will have an updated calibration, which can make a HUGE difference itself.

Every version is going to have its own steering calibration . . . the 228i, 235i, Xdrives, covnertibles, grand coupes, etc. will all have their own cal, and The engineers are constantly learning and building upon their experience with each model. That's why, as someone said, the 320i has slightly better steering than the 335i.
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      01-20-2014, 06:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_bm View Post
To make it feel the same in M235 would take much more than simple tuning.
Not true. 1st, tuning is not "simple." Second, steering feel is nearly 100% a result of tuning. There's no major deficiency with the F30 or any other modern BMW platform that tuning won't fix. But the F30 brought a whole new philosophy with it, along with a switch to EPS and some other new chassis bits, and unfortunately they missed the mark a bit with with the first version.
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      01-20-2014, 06:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_bm View Post
To make it feel the same in M235 would take much more than simple tuning.
Not true. 1st, tuning is not "simple." Second, steering feel is nearly 100% a result of tuning. There's no major deficiency with the F30 or any other modern BMW platform that tuning won't fix. But the F30 brought a whole new philosophy with it, along with a switch to EPS and some other new chassis bits, and unfortunately they missed the mark a bit with with the first version.
Did not mean to diminish the value of tuning. Just saying it would take a significant leap to make the steering comparable to that in the M3.
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      01-20-2014, 07:04 PM   #36
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Hopefully this will quiet all of the EPS rants.
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      01-20-2014, 07:15 PM   #37
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Great review. The criticisms were put diplomatically - not brutally - but they're there. You have to read between the lines. The fact that it wasn't a glowing review speaks volumes.

Waiting for the M2.
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      01-20-2014, 07:32 PM   #38
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Sounds like the M235 is a great successor to the 135, and dare I say, the 1 'M' Coupe. However, it certainly feels like there's space for an M2. A car without compromise that offers new M enthusiasts the same thing the M3 offered up until the e9x series moved up market.

Whether the M2 will be the answer, or some variant of Mini, remains to be seen.
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      01-20-2014, 07:42 PM   #39
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I like the profile of the M235 in this pic really a lot
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      01-20-2014, 08:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
The shocks and struts adjust, NOT the sway bars. Adaptive suspensions these days are pretty good, and should outperform standard suspensions for most attributes.

Read my post HERE for more info on how they work.

Long story short, you can replace the adaptive suspension dampers with coil-overs and make whatever modifications you want to the car just like normal. But if you want KEEP the adaptive function, you're better off leaving the whole system stock, as changes to other parts in the system can confuse the suspension ECU. Kind of like making major engine mods without a tune, except at the moment, there's no "tune" for adaptive suspensions (except Dinan's shockware for the F10).
Thanks for the explanation, puts a lot together.
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      01-20-2014, 09:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam@Bimmerpost View Post
Excellent observation.

You are absolutely correct in that the feel and feedback greatly improve with increasing speed and lateral forces. I think the tuning philosophy is that hard driving is where feel and feedback really matter, while it does not matter as much when driving slowly around town or during parking manoeuvres. This is where BMW tunes the steering to be very light, friction free and easy to use. This is what they call Servotronic. Unfortunately, most of their buyers are not enthusiasts.

My first answer is no, the steering is not brimming with life when driving to work.

However, I did not feel that the E90 M3's steering was brimming with life either when I drove it every day to work. It only really started to chat when the commitment increased and the car was worked.

I think for steering that feels very chatty and organic and mechanical even when going slowly, we have to go several more generations back. E46, E36 and of course, the E30.

I will mention also that the one outstanding EPS on sale currently that does feel very satisfying even at low speed is the Toyota FRS/BRZ. Give that car a whirl if you wish to benchmark just how good EPS can feel even when puttering at low speeds. This is how cars used to be tuned in the 80s and 90s.
I concur with you on the great steering of the FRS/BRZ. I drove that car (named Toyota GT86 in Europe) in France for a couple of hours and had I not known it had EPS, I would have been fooled: beautiful weight and feel.
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      01-20-2014, 09:43 PM   #42
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A question that i haven't seen answered quiet yet, Whats happens if the electronic steering fails? Do you loose all steering?
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      01-20-2014, 09:55 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuibmw View Post
I like the profile of the M235 in this pic really a lot
The bonnet is elongated in that shot because of the spherical distortion of the camera lens.
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      01-20-2014, 10:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Great review. The criticisms were put diplomatically - not brutally - but they're there. You have to read between the lines. The fact that it wasn't a glowing review speaks volumes.

Waiting for the M2.
My thoughts exactly
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