[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

to be fair, car looks really cool with the springs on, so I guess have that going for them.

That's for sure!

[wjones14]

LP, since we're talking track here, do you buy special HPDE insurance when you go out?

I have done a bunch of track days myself with the Mustang, and never insured it, but then again, it's a Mustang that's only worth about $12K now. I definitely want to track the M235i once it's broken in, but I'm seriously considering the HPDE insurance. BMWCCA offers single day coverage for about $300. Just wondering about your thoughts on that?

[Supernaut]

Originally Posted by wjones14

LP, since we're talking track here, do you buy special HPDE insurance when you go out?

I have done a bunch of track days myself with the Mustang, and never insured it, but then again, it's a Mustang that's only worth about $12K now. I definitely want to track the M235i once it's broken in, but I'm seriously considering the HPDE insurance. BMWCCA offers single day coverage for about $300. Just wondering about your thoughts on that?

I'm in the same boat and have been looking at this as well. My insurance used to exclude events on a race course in prep for, or for, a timed event or competition, but they tell me now it's not covered even for HPDE. Is the $300 for just a day? I've seen about that price for a weekend.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Supernaut

I'm in the same boat and have been looking at this as well. My insurance used to exclude events on a race course in prep for, or for, a timed event or competition, but they tell me now it's not covered even for HPDE. Is the $300 for just a day? I've seen about that price for a weekend.

Not sure. $300 was just an estimate. You need to fill out an application to get an exact quote. I just plugged in a value of $50,000 and it displayed $311 for a "single event." Your guess is as good as mine if that means a weekend at the same track, or 1 day. I plugged in $40,000 value and the estimate dropped to $251.

http://locktonmotorsports.com/product/hpde-insurance

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by wjones14

LP, since we're talking track here, do you buy special HPDE insurance when you go out?

I have done a bunch of track days myself with the Mustang, and never insured it, but then again, it's a Mustang that's only worth about $12K now. I definitely want to track the M235i once it's broken in, but I'm seriously considering the HPDE insurance. BMWCCA offers single day coverage for about $300. Just wondering about your thoughts on that?

I did at the start. I have some racers in my family, and they comforted me and explained that the chance of a total loss event happening is very rare in HPDE/TT stuff, especially if you drive safely and don't push way past your limits. So, no, I don't use it now because I honestly feel pretty safe as is. Frankly, I feel way more nervous in LA street traffic than I do on track.

That being said, it is definitely an option if you're feeling nervous.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

I did at the start. I have some racers in my family, and they comforted me and explained that the chance of a total loss event happening is very rare in HPDE/TT stuff, especially if you drive safely and don't push way past your limits. So, no, I don't use it now because I honestly feel pretty safe as is. Frankly, I feel way more nervous in LA street traffic than I do on track.

That being said, it is definitely an option if you're feeling nervous.

Right, totally agree about total loss being extremely rare at HPDE events. However, the 7 events I have been to, I have seen this:

- Shelby AC Cobra spin into a wall at Lime Rock, smashing in the front end, destroying the radiator, front suspension, and probably the frame, and being towed off the track. Probable total loss. Unbelievably, this was on the first lap of the first session! Tires were likely not warmed up.

- Subaru BRZ spun off track and into guard rail at Lime Rock (not the same day as the Cobra). Wrecked the nose and looked like the front wheels were bent at a crazy angle. Probably not a total loss, but certainly over $10K in damage.

- Porsche 928S blown engine on track at Thompson Speedway. Towed off track.

- Evo IX spun off track and into guard rail at Lime Rock in wet conditions. This was a glancing blow to the rear quarter, and he was able to limp back to the pits without a tow. Trunk lid was popped open and could not be shut because of the damage. Certainly not totaled, but could have been $5-10K worth of fixes needed.

So yes, only the Cobra here was definitely totaled, but still the other incidents were not something you want. I can only imagine the cost to fix an M235i if it were damaged like the BRZ. What would cost $10K to fix on a BRZ could be $20K on a BMW.

You're absolutely right though that common sense should prevail, and usually does at these events. But as we saw in your previous video, spins do happen, and it's just a matter of luck whether your car is damaged or not.

[escobar929]

Love the harness, well done

[eboosted]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

I'

In comfort, ride is similar to stock. Better composure over bumps (fewer secondary motions I think). Not sure about sport.

Thanks for the feedback on the pads, I guess you are happier with the r4s than with the m performance pads.

Hope to get some feedback on sport mode stock vs H&R after you test it.

[MG 228i]

What about hitting or causing damage to someone else's car?

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by MG 228i

What about hitting or causing damage to someone else's car?

Not sure if that HPDE insurance covers liability. Anyone know?

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Right, totally agree about total loss being extremely rare at HPDE events. However, the 7 events I have been to, I have seen this:

- Shelby AC Cobra spin into a wall at Lime Rock, smashing in the front end, destroying the radiator, front suspension, and probably the frame, and being towed off the track. Probable total loss. Unbelievably, this was on the first lap of the first session! Tires were likely not warmed up.

- Subaru BRZ spun off track and into guard rail at Lime Rock (not the same day as the Cobra). Wrecked the nose and looked like the front wheels were bent at a crazy angle. Probably not a total loss, but certainly over $10K in damage.

- Porsche 928S blown engine on track at Thompson Speedway. Towed off track.

- Evo IX spun off track and into guard rail at Lime Rock in wet conditions. This was a glancing blow to the rear quarter, and he was able to limp back to the pits without a tow. Trunk lid was popped open and could not be shut because of the damage. Certainly not totaled, but could have been $5-10K worth of fixes needed.

So yes, only the Cobra here was definitely totaled, but still the other incidents were not something you want. I can only imagine the cost to fix an M235i if it were damaged like the BRZ. What would cost $10K to fix on a BRZ could be $20K on a BMW.

You're absolutely right though that common sense should prevail, and usually does at these events. But as we saw in your previous video, spins do happen, and it's just a matter of luck whether your car is damaged or not.

Oh I agree. It is a matter of luck. However, insurance or not, you're rolling the dice when you take a car on the track. Or out on the street. Or leave it parked on the side of the road. HPDE insurance is definitely useful, I just don't happen to use it. YMMV.

Also, with regard to liability insurance, I happen to be a lawyer when I am not hanging around here, and I can tell you right now that a lawsuit involving damage to a car on a racetrack would be laughed right out of any courtroom in the country. When you set foot on a racetrack, you assume the risk that your car might not make it through the day.

Your car getting smashed up the racetrack is a risk that you take, and by participating in such an activity, you waive any right to sue because your car got smashed up. That's also why they have you sign that big waiver before they let you in the gate at any track.

[rwalker]

who's your mechanic? how about a DIY/more documentation for those harness attachment points?

[ketema]

Great build! I am definitely getting that harness now that you've shown how to mount it. I'm interested in know if your diff is better or different that the M-Sport diff.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by ketema

Great build! I am definitely getting that harness now that you've shown how to mount it. I'm interested in know if your diff is better or different that the M-Sport diff.

For the amount I'm paying, I sure hope it's better. In any event, the diff at very least has an oil plug for changes. As hard at I drive my car, I can't live with the "lifetime oil" in the MP diff.

Also, it's going to be a much more track focused setup with more lockup than the MP diff.

[ketema]

Can you PM me info on your diff? I am pounding the snot out of mine too. Track event every month since I've had the car and no plans to stop. Thanks

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by rwalker

who's your mechanic? how about a DIY/more documentation for those harness attachment points?

My mechanic is John Norris at GT International Motors in Santa Monica. He does normal BMW's, as well as BMW race prep. He is a master.

I would not recommend doing this as a DIY. I would only do something regarding safety with an experienced mechanic. Also, it is very complicated. I will make a thread regarding how and where to drill for the anchor points with some better pictures, so you can show them to your own mechanic and have this installed.

Originally Posted by ketema

Can you PM me info on your diff? I am pounding the snot out of mine too. Track event every month since I've had the car and no plans to stop. Thanks

Dan Fitzgerald at Diffsonline is making my diff. It is a 3 clutch carrier with 35/60 ramps and 95 ft/lb of preload. I am also raising my rear end drive ratio from the stock 3.08 to a more aggressive 3.46.

Dan has not yet calculated the lockup percentages (the ramps still need to be cut and heat treated), but I think they will be around 40% for acceleration, and I am not sure about deceleration, but at very least it wont be less that 30%. Not sure though. I'll get back to you guys on that one once I find out more.

The M-Performance Diff uses a 6 clutch carrier, which is nice, but generally much more fragile than the 3 clutch. Also, like I said, you can't change the oil on the MP Diff -- its a sealed unit. You can (and must) change the oil on the Diffsonline diff after 1200 miles (break-in -- just like an M Car), and then every other oil change after that. The oil weight for track use is 75w140 (Redline). If you do not intend to track your car ever, you can get away with 75w90 (Redline).

Once I find out more, I will post.

[ocN55]

I'm in love with that harness setup!

Do you know if any of the 4 point harnesses made by Schroth will fit without having to cut anything? I'm very interested in the Scroth Quickfit

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by ocN55

I'm in love with that harness setup!

Do you know if any of the 4 point harnesses made by Schroth will fit without having to cut anything? I'm very interested in the Scroth Quickfit

I have no idea. I looked at that route before going for a more permanent fix, but Schroth said it would be another year before their F 2X solution came out. So, I just decided to take matters into my own hands and devise my own solution.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

My mechanic is John Norris at GT International Motors in Santa Monica. He does normal BMW's, as well as BMW race prep. He is a master.

I would not recommend doing this as a DIY. I would only do something regarding safety with an experienced mechanic. Also, it is very complicated. I will make a thread regarding how and where to drill for the anchor points with some better pictures, so you can show them to your own mechanic and have this installed.



Dan Fitzgerald at Diffsonline is making my diff. It is a 3 clutch carrier with 35/60 ramps and 95 ft/lb of preload. I am also raising my rear end drive ratio from the stock 3.08 to a more aggressive 3.46.

Dan has not yet calculated the lockup percentages (the ramps still need to be cut and heat treated), but I think they will be around 40% for acceleration, and I am not sure about deceleration, but at very least it wont be less that 30%. Not sure though. I'll get back to you guys on that one once I find out more.

The M-Performance Diff uses a 6 clutch carrier, which is nice, but generally much more fragile than the 3 clutch. Also, like I said, you can't change the oil on the MP Diff -- its a sealed unit. You can (and must) change the oil on the Diffsonline diff after 1200 miles (break-in -- just like an M Car), and then every other oil change after that. The oil weight for track use is 75w140 (Redline). If you do not intend to track your car ever, you can get away with 75w90 (Redline).

Once I find out more, I will post.

The m performance diff is not sealed, there is a drain plug on the back. You just extract and fill. I'm do mine every 3-4 track days.

Also be careful with the harness if you do not have a roll bar. If you roll the car, and the roof collapses the seats are designed to fold, the harness will prevent that, effectively crushing your skull or decapitaing you.

[///CSL]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

For the amount I'm paying, I sure hope it's better. In any event, the diff at very least has an oil plug for changes. As hard at I drive my car, I can't live with the "lifetime oil" in the MP diff.

Also, it's going to be a much more track focused setup with more lockup than the MP diff.

Liquidpaper so what is final lockup value on your diff?

[Liquidpaper]

Honestly, I do not know. The ramps are 35/60, so significantly more than the MP LSD (I think those ramps are like 60/80?).

[rightrudder]

Great thread! I'll be tracking my M240i at least a few times (after I get it and put on some break-in miles) and there's some very useful info here.

What width/offset are your Arc-8s? Any rubbing with your setup? I've got a set (18x9 w/ 245/35-18 Conti ExtremeConatact DW tires) on my E46 325i and am extremely pleased with them.