Dark Days Ahead, My Friends - BMW Drops 2 Series Stick Shift in U.S. |
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07-07-2017, 01:20 PM | #111 |
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Given that you're from california I sort of expected that you would ignore the increasing rate of debt growth not to mention unfunded liabilities......
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07-07-2017, 02:48 PM | #112 | ||
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I'm going to assume -- which I don't normally like to do, but here it is -- that you're referring to me as part of your comment since that's a post of mine that you quoted. I actually get along with quite a few 2Addicts. I've even met a few in person. It's the ones who do two things that I tend to engage with, shall we say, 'verve': - Ones who don't use 2Addicts properly and muck it up for everyone else - Ones who either try to pass off opinion as fact or make a largely nonpolitical issue political My attitude's fine. Yeah I'm cumrudgeonly at times, but that right comes with age and a distaste for those who lack respect for, and consideration of, others. Thing is, those 'others' is the entire reason a forum such as this exists: a place for anyone of any background to talk about and learn about a mutual interest. However, some 'others' on 2Addicts/Bimmerpost would have you believe that this is not what the forums provide. So instead of letting 'those others' set a tone, I choose to challenge that tone at times -- and IME, it's more often those 'others' who escalate things ... (Off-topic lack of modesty alert) ... I just tend not to back down because my sense of self -- and of others' right to a different point of view -- is acute, and my belief systems are essentially based on thousands of years of sociologic, anthropologic, and psychologic precedent that furthers humanism and humaneness. (OK: back to topic)
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07-07-2017, 03:07 PM | #113 |
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I for one am thrilled with government oversight in regards to safety. I truly mean that. I can't trust the manufacturers to build a safe car and in absence of regulation, they probably won't. Case in point look at Nissan and how they continued to build a 1992 Sentra in Mexico until the end of last year. I get that it's to hit a price point, but my point is without some oversight, it's unlikely manufacturers will do the "right" thing. I'm sort of a fan of seat belts and airbags. I also like the mandantory cameras coming up.
The more important issue is keeping a balance between crippling regulation and a free for all. Ok, I guess I'll get off my soapbox now. |
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07-07-2017, 03:16 PM | #114 |
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I fully expect that to be fixed before the end of the year, if not sooner.
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07-07-2017, 03:26 PM | #115 | |
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The fine line you walk with a car manufacturer is something that forced Saab out of business for all intents and purposes. For those of us old enough to remember they were right there with Volvo for safety. I cannot for the life of me recall the name right now but way back when the co-developed a car with someone else. The car was "done" according to the other company and put on sale with that badge. Saab then dumped a TON more money into it to make it safe enough to survive a nuclear holocaust. By the government mandating safety features the effectively force everyone to play ball on a level playing field, and those less concerned with such matters cannot come to market with a cheaper / less safe alternative. Think of it as a safety ante if you will. Make you car safer if you want, but you need to do at least this to get in the game.
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07-07-2017, 04:08 PM | #116 | |
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I'm old enough to recall the pre-smog-regulation days and particularly the day my folks drove us to Disneyland. It was unreal as we crested a grade pass and descended into the LA basin and incredible smog. My eyes burned; my throat felt tight - it was miserable. Most of that smog was generated by automobiles and you can bet your sweet biffy that if it wasn't for ever increasing regulations, the auto manufacturers would have done little to clean up engine exhaust pollutants. In the end, look what's happened. Cars are cleaner and more efficient than ever, not to mention vast gains in HP if you want it. This industry was challenged, stumbled for a few years then got their act together and figured out how to produce cars that are not only cleaner, but have much better drivability, with better MPG to boot. The fact is, without some form of government regulation, consumers end up getting the shaft. And it goes well beyond automobiles.
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Tpeterson156.50 Viffermike1753.00 |
07-11-2017, 08:02 AM | #117 |
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Lots of griping about those pesky gov't regulations, but have you checked out what it is like to drive in those 'bastions of freedom' where they are unregulated. Slice me some of that Chinese morning mist, before getting into a 'taxi' that makes a Niagara Falls barrel ride look safe. Granted the bureaucracy gets cumbersome and adds expense, but there is a value to having standards - without them there is no way we would be driving cars putting out >100hp/liter, beating supercars of the 70's and 80's for performance, and getting decent gas mileage while being so much safer in a crash.
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07-11-2017, 08:14 AM | #118 | |
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07-11-2017, 12:21 PM | #119 | |
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There is no government force that is "forcing" drivers into AT's over MT's. Yes manufacturers decide what to offer customers based on what previous customers have purchased, and what they claim they will want to purchase. The disappearance of AT's from most cars does suck for those who like MT's. I am one of them. However, a few years back I had to switch due to a medical issue that was greatly aggravated by simply using a clutch. Still, I'd like to see MT's offered to consumers. However, if manufactures find that the vast majority of consumers do not want MT's, then of course it becomes a ROI issue, singularly. The other issue of funding and making cars available for testing and certification also becomes an ROI question, that is based on regulation. Thus, it may not make economic sense to keep developing MT's. Yes, those things are connected, but not by the same situation. The regulations haven't changed in order to push AT's over MT's, so there's that for one of your assertions. The question of ROI is a business decision that is a major concern to any manufacturer, even the ones that don't have much monetarily burdensome regulation. If demand for MT's were there, and there is a good ROI for it, then of course the manufacturer will continue to offer the option as there is profitability in it. If there isn't, then the option will likely be removed. There is no governmental conspiracy to force consumers in to AT's, or force MT's out. Last edited by RPM90; 07-11-2017 at 01:02 PM.. |
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07-11-2017, 12:26 PM | #120 | |
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BMWUSA.com config also have an MT option still available for both 230i and M240i, for the current 2017 model year. It's in the "Options" section, because the AT is considered a "standard" item. |
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07-11-2017, 12:28 PM | #121 | |
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No one here is arguing that regulations have no impact on the cost of vehicles. You are lumping various issues of fact into your own woven belief of some grand conspiracy for the reason as to why the vast majority of car consumers don't want MT's. I suppose the reason why a lot of households have dish washing machines is because of some government regulations that are secretly depriving households of the ability to handwash their pots, pans, and dishes? LOL! C'mon already. The market offers technology and other items to consumers and the consumers then decide if they want it or not. My mother would NEVER use a dish washing machine, but there sure are a lot of consumers who do, and thus plenty of variations to choose from. Yes, many of us know and love MT's, like you. However, jumping to a belief in some governmental attempt to stop your fun is beyond the pale. Simply accept that for certain automobiles there are not enough MT takers for some manufacturers to want to continue to offer them. No need to call your congress-person or senator and demand an investigation or legislation to "save the manuals!" Last edited by RPM90; 07-11-2017 at 12:40 PM.. |
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07-11-2017, 12:46 PM | #122 | |
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So, nah nah nah...nah nah, rasberrys to you! |
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07-11-2017, 12:55 PM | #123 | |
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Yes, I am "old enough". Interesting link on Saab's potential comeback. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oing-bust.html |
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07-11-2017, 01:00 PM | #124 |
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Well, I guess you showed me! :
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