10-14-2022, 01:02 PM | #23 | ||
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With the specs checking all the boxes and then some, the main issue lies with questionable design language but slowly it will become complacent and accepted. I'm hoping now the LCI might brings by a more constraint rear bumper - one can dream. Worst case, we'll see the Z4 with a B58 and manual becomes a viable option,I might then just reconsider this vehicle. The Z4 with manual will be like an ultra modern Honda S2000, with a BMW flair, enhance handling and stability, a car that more than likely give the M2 model a run for its money, with all the cross-shoppers like myself. |
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10-14-2022, 01:16 PM | #24 |
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It's a simple straight fact that the F87 is a superior product.
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10-14-2022, 01:32 PM | #25 | |
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The major difference between F8X and G8X is 70 ft/lbs of torque to offset weight (or in the CS case 25ish ft/lbs). Even then, the difference between F82 CS and G82 RWD is 8 seconds with F82 CS on old gen Cup2s and a rougher track. I also don't really care for the CS moniker, so I'm not saying any of this out of my own self interest lol
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10-14-2022, 03:25 PM | #26 |
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I like it ok. I'm the opposite of most in that it's the kidney grills that I don't really like. I wish they had just left them like the M240i. The side profile looks good, I love the seat choices, and engine.
When the F87 M2 came out, I didn't really like the big fangs at the bottom, but got used to it. Having said that, the G87 overall isn't exciting me like the F87 did. I'd like to see it in more detail with the other colors. Right now, I couldn't see myself trading my LCI M2 in for a G87. I have an emotional attachment to the F87, after all the missteps and journey to getting it at the performance center. It's nice to see all the excitement over at the G87 forum about it. There will be a new group of people, with older posters chiming in; that love the G87. I thinks that's cool. |
10-14-2022, 05:23 PM | #27 | ||
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I expect there will be a bunch who say very few drive the car that hard, well the same could be said then for needing high HP and blistering acceleration 100-200kph etc ? |
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10-14-2022, 05:31 PM | #28 | |
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The M2 CS did 7:43 with Cup 2 tires. M2 Comp did it in 7:52. The tires and tune are almost all of that difference. The G82 M4 Comp does 7:30 with PS4S. Subtract around 6 seconds from that for Cup 2 tires, 2 seconds for weight penalty (AWD auto comp) then add 5 for the M2 power deficit and 10 for loss of AWD. That gets you to an estimated 7:37 for a G87 M2 on Cup 2 tires. Unfortunately I can't find a legit G8x non-comp ring time. |
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10-14-2022, 07:13 PM | #29 | |
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But where I agree with you, and where I think the difference will come from, is the improved damping. More than anything that’s where I think F8X in general is let down, although the CS damping significantly improved the platform. I don’t foresee a major outright speed difference but G87 will probably have an easier time riding curbs at higher speed.
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10-14-2022, 07:18 PM | #30 | |
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Maybe it’s a little sacrilegious to say this but the best dollar-for-dollar new car BMW track platform is the Supra.
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10-14-2022, 07:28 PM | #31 |
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G87 is the last 6MT ICE M car…I'll be buying one at some point simply because of that.
Until then I will enjoy my F87 because it's the better car
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10-14-2022, 10:43 PM | #32 | |
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I don't. I just like a car that's pretty raw and a ton of fun to drive. The G82 I drove is ridiculously capable but not a lot of fun. I think they've done a great job on the G87. I'm looking forward to having a go in it. I suspect it will be more like G82 than F87 and most people will prefer that. F87 CS is such a fun drive. It's pretty quick on a bumpy track as the suspension out of the box is so damn good. Also it's as fast as you'd ever need. 3.4 0-60 and 11.7 quarter at 120mph is moving. |
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10-14-2022, 11:37 PM | #33 |
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10-15-2022, 05:34 AM | #35 |
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I configured the G87 and in the Netherlands it would be about (not even fully loaded)123k € (fully loaded >140k €) , In Belgium(neigbouring country) about <90k € and in Germany(also about one hour driving from where I live) 90k € as well.
I asked my $tealer yesterday: production feb '23, and add 10 weeks to get the damn thing to from Mx to EU/NL..... Cheers Robin |
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10-15-2022, 08:06 AM | #36 |
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I have to say, I don't remember there being much 'divided opinion' about the appearance of the F87 when first launched. There were some haters, but they seemed to be M4 owners who suddenly realised how far their cars had strayed from the original concept of M-cars.
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10-16-2022, 07:44 PM | #40 |
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But it's not true. The G80 is a very big jump in performance over F80 and the weight gain is even more extreme depending on the configuration. F87 comp with 6MT is about 3600 lbs and the G87 with 6MT and carbon roof appears to be about 3750. I am not talking about fun or feel etc which we can't know yet. Just purely performance.
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10-16-2022, 09:23 PM | #41 | |
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Being generous to the G87 the weight gain would be 220lb+. Yes BMW have done their best to make the heavier car handle well but there isn't any change of note to suspension design/layout (eg the new GT3 going to wishbones at front). To manage the forces of that extra mass in cornering/braking they've gone to bigger & softer/stickier tyres, truth is there's little else they could do. Doesn't make it a better performer. We don't know the G87's weight distribution (OG was 49/51 with M2C a little worse) but the longer wheel base may make it easier to handle when exceeding limits of traction, same with changes to traction control, but neither necessarily make it a better performer. When you look at the time/money/effort that many genuine performance enthusiasts put into pulling a few kg's of weight out of their cars it's bewildering the lack of concern there is for this enormous weight gain (though I expect those enthusiasts won't be happy with the weight). Forums/FB have had so much said about the N55 in OG, seats/mirrors/styling, the M2C being a 'real' ///M car etc. Now people are raving about the S58 but the styling is polarising (I don't mind it except for the rear bumper) but very few seem worried about carrying all those extra kg's. Guess it's an indication that these days a significant portion of the market is more concerned with 0-60 and styling |
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10-16-2022, 09:29 PM | #42 | |
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Not once has BMW failed to launch an M car that didn't outperform its predecessor (excluding CSL / GTS). They might not be as fun or light or whatever but they always outperform their predecessor. Last edited by chris719; 10-16-2022 at 09:44 PM.. |
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10-16-2022, 11:16 PM | #43 | |
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I guess the G series weight is due to chassis prep required for a hybrid (safely house batteries etc), it's the future of mass produced cars. Doesn't mean we just pretend that Newton's Laws of Motion no longer apply. |
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10-16-2022, 11:46 PM | #44 | |
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Of course a lighter car all else equal is preferable, but it's never the case that all other things are equal. Engineering is an optimization problem and you often trading off one parameter for another. You're really making this more complicated than it needs to be to defend an indefensible position. The E92 M3 weighs much more than the E46 M3, but there is not a single performance metric that is in favor of the E46 M3. Period. Same thing for the 1M vs M2. The M2 performs better in every measurable aspect but it's a heavier car. Last edited by chris719; 10-16-2022 at 11:53 PM.. |
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