[hwntime]

Originally Posted by Cumberlandjames

Considering the length of time this thread has been around, I'm surprised no one had gone scientific and used a sound level app on their phone to measure the before and after sound levels.
These apps are not really too accurate but would show a difference if there is one. The actual value may not be that important only the fact that there is either a significant improvement or a marginal one.
I guess if someone was a real keener he could remove and re-install his set to do the test. Would be interesting to see the results. Could be they are just dirt stops not sound barriers.

There are decibel meters available in the $15-$20 range and I'm surprised nobody has used one yet.

[AlpsRider]

The door seals do help with tire noise on rough surfaces and air noise at higher speeds. When I owned my M235i I didn't notice any difference in engine noise but now that I've installed them on my new M2 Competition with the S55 engine, I've noticed a difference. There is a small space between where the seal stops and when the upper door jam seal begins. I plugged up that space with a piece of aftermarket weather strip which has worked great.

[2016F22xD]

Originally Posted by MPBK

There's no app to measure the placebo effect.
And that is all that matters - if you think the problem is solved, it's solved.

There's an app to measure noise / DB

[GrimJaw]

Did anyone actually have the weather stripping installed and notice a difference??

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by GrimJaw

Did anyone actually have the weather stripping installed and notice a difference??

Several did along these six pages, and heard a difference, yours truly included. Quick and cheap way to muffle tire/road noise...not wind.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Several did along these six pages, and heard a difference, yours truly included. Quick and cheap way to muffle tire/road noise...not wind.

I think by adding the last piece in the above photo it helps wind noise above 90mph.

[2016F22xD]

So I decided to do this test and see if these seals actually reduce road / wind noise. Tests are done 4 days apart. This is not using professional equipment or on a closed course, but I tried duplicating as much as I can.

2016 M235 xDrive Coupe
Weather / road condition- Sunny and dry
Windows, sunroof / shade, ASD, Radio and HVAC are closed / off
Phone mount location is at the right center air vent
At highest gear (A/T) using cruise control
Same stretch of roads, no lane changes, no loud semi near by
1.5 months old Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3
Using Decibel X from Apple App Store (free version)
Each recording is about 20 seconds.


Before Install
45 mph- Avg. 79.6 dB / Max 83.7 dB
70 mph- Avg. 81.1 dB / Max 84.0 dB
90 mph- Avg. 84.8 dB / Max 88.6 dB

After Install
45 mph- Avg. 79.6 dB / Max 83.9 dB
70 mph- Avg. 83.5 dB / Max 86.4 dB
90 mph- Avg. 85.6 dB / Max 88.4 dB

Interesting notes:
I listen to my music and my volume is at the last "t" in entertainment and at 65 mph I have an avg of 89.2 dB / Max 92.6 dB (which is louder than road noise anyways).

All windows / sunroof open- 65 mph- avg. 99.5 dB / Max 105.1

This is maybe why BMW no longer put these seals in as there is no difference in noise reduction. I will be returning the seal to my local BMW Parts Department.

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by 2016F22xD

So I decided to do this test and see if these seals actually reduce road / wind noise. Tests are done 4 days apart. This is not using professional equipment or on a closed course, but I tried duplicating as much as I can.

2016 M235 xDrive Coupe
Weather / road condition- Sunny and dry
Windows, sunroof / shade, ASD, Radio and HVAC are closed / off
Phone mount location is at the right center air vent
At highest gear (A/T) using cruise control
Same stretch of roads, no lane changes, no loud semi near by
1.5 months old Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3
Using Decibel X from Apple App Store (free version)
Each recording is about 20 seconds.


Before Install
45 mph- Avg. 79.6 dB / Max 83.7 dB
70 mph- Avg. 81.1 dB / Max 84.0 dB
90 mph- Avg. 84.8 dB / Max 88.6 dB

After Install
45 mph- Avg. 79.6 dB / Max 83.9 dB
70 mph- Avg. 83.5 dB / Max 86.4 dB
90 mph- Avg. 85.6 dB / Max 88.4 dB

Interesting notes:
I listen to my music and my volume is at the last "t" in entertainment and at 65 mph I have an avg of 89.2 dB / Max 92.6 dB (which is louder than road noise anyways).

All windows / sunroof open- 65 mph- avg. 99.5 dB / Max 105.1

This is maybe why BMW no longer put these seals in as there is no difference in noise reduction. I will be returning the seal to my local BMW Parts Department.

Thanks for doing this. I was actually on the fence and was thinking about ordering a db meter from amazon. Now I don't have to waste my time.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by 2016F22xD

So I decided to do this test and see if these seals actually reduce road / wind noise. Tests are done 4 days apart. This is not using professional equipment or on a closed course, but I tried duplicating as much as I can.

2016 M235 xDrive Coupe
Weather / road condition- Sunny and dry
Windows, sunroof / shade, ASD, Radio and HVAC are closed / off
Phone mount location is at the right center air vent
At highest gear (A/T) using cruise control
Same stretch of roads, no lane changes, no loud semi near by
1.5 months old Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3
Using Decibel X from Apple App Store (free version)
Each recording is about 20 seconds.


Before Install
45 mph- Avg. 79.6 dB / Max 83.7 dB
70 mph- Avg. 81.1 dB / Max 84.0 dB
90 mph- Avg. 84.8 dB / Max 88.6 dB

After Install
45 mph- Avg. 79.6 dB / Max 83.9 dB
70 mph- Avg. 83.5 dB / Max 86.4 dB
90 mph- Avg. 85.6 dB / Max 88.4 dB

Interesting notes:
I listen to my music and my volume is at the last "t" in entertainment and at 65 mph I have an avg of 89.2 dB / Max 92.6 dB (which is louder than road noise anyways).

All windows / sunroof open- 65 mph- avg. 99.5 dB / Max 105.1

This is maybe why BMW no longer put these seals in as there is no difference in noise reduction. I will be returning the seal to my local BMW Parts Department.

Many thanks.

[zombem235]

FYI. Punch those part numbers into the ecstuning.com website and they got them for just under 15 ea

[wt888]

Regarding the dB measurements, I just did a major soundproofing project https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1603280 and didn't notice any difference in dB, although the car is definitely quieter to my ears. I wouldn't expect such a small piece of foam to show a measurable difference in dB, although a change in frequency may be why people hear a difference. I believe this foam works but don't expect a huge difference, but it makes sense: add sound dampening-->get quieter.

[MPBK]

placebo

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by wt888

Regarding the dB measurements, I just did a major soundproofing project https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1603280 and didn't notice any difference in dB, although the car is definitely quieter to my ears. I wouldn't expect such a small piece of foam to show a measurable difference in dB, although a change in frequency may be why people hear a difference. I believe this foam works but don't expect a huge difference, but it makes sense: add sound dampening-->get quieter.

Engine noise and front tire noise are reduced with the strips. I don't care what some little db
sensor read in an unscientific test. I have very good hearing and I can tell the difference.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by MPBK

placebo

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Engine noise and front tire noise are reduced with the strips. I don't care what some little db
sensor read in an unscientific test. I have very good hearing and I can tell the difference.

"Placebo" is a conclusion very difficult to rebut in a test that is not single nor double-blinded. We could debate the experiential reality to the subject of a placebo, but of what matter, as reality for all humans is simply their experience. But, for a 5 minute modification of relative pennies, the motivation to wish this as a panacea is low. I also found that it was noticeably helpful specifically for tire noise. I didn't find an improvement for engine noise. Others can accept each of our objectivity, or not, as they wish.

Relative to the part no longer being present in new production (as I read...I haven't checked), we don't know that BMW didn't find a more cost/labor efficient solution in production, ranging from application of more mastic spray in a wheel well to changing the compound spec for a tire relative to hardness, and the resulting noise, to reach a similar outcome. We just don't know. The stuffers had all the hallmarks of being a temporary fix.

[AlpsRider]

"I also found that it was noticeably helpful specifically for tire noise. I didn't find an improvement for engine noise."

After installing the strips on my M235i I didn't notice much difference with engine noise either. It was mostly tire and some air noise. My new M2 Competition with the S55 has more mechanical noise coming from the engine. It loves to rev. Since my car is a 6MT I shift at a higher rpm than the auto tranny would do. So with my car the strips definitely reduce noise. The tire noise is more noticeable on rough roads that make the tires "sing."

It is such an inexpensive mod, I don't understand what the big deal is. If nothing else it helps keep dirt from collecting inside the door around the hinges.

[Poochie]

The weather striping does make a difference. #Duh

Don't believe me? Rip a hole in any of the other door seals or slightly crack the window, then drive for like the 80mph; you'll hear the air rushing into the cabin.

If it didn't serve a purpose, a penny-pinching company like BMW would of left it off on the 228/230 and all diesel motors.

It was not added to the 235/M2 because BMW didn't want to cabin to sound too insulated for their "sportier" vehicles. Living proof that it does make a discernible difference, in place.

[Winemaker2]

I am wondering if they really didn't help why do some of the later model F22s have them installed. Is it the model year or do options make a difference? I'm not going to pull mine out to test it they make a difference.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Poochie

The weather striping does make a difference. #Du

It was not added to the 235/M2 because BMW didn't want to cabin to sound too insulated for their "sportier" vehicles. Living proof that it does make a discernible difference, in place.

Exactly, just like they removed the sound insulation under the M2 hood.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Poochie

The weather striping does make a difference. #Duh

Don't believe me? Rip a hole in any of the other door seals or slightly crack the window, then drive for like the 80mph; you'll hear the air rushing into the cabin.

If it didn't serve a purpose, a penny-pinching company like BMW would of left it off on the 228/230 and all diesel motors.

It was not added to the 235/M2 because BMW didn't want to cabin to sound too insulated for their "sportier" vehicles. Living proof that it does make a discernible difference, in place.

You want to rip a hole in the door seals or crack the windows open and if you hear more noise that's proof that the strips work?

You got it all backwards.
Being a penny-pinching company, BMW stopped installing these strips after they found (hopefully via scientific enough methods). That is proof that the strips don't do much, if anything.
If BMW started installing these strips after a certain date, that would be the proof that you seek.

It's not that BMW didn't want the cabin to sound too insulated. You do realize that the engine noise that you hear in the M2 is fake, piped in through the speakers, yes? No weather stripping would change any of that.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by MPBK

You want to rip a hole in the door seals or crack the windows open and if you hear more noise that's proof that the strips work?

You got it all backwards.
Being a penny-pinching company, BMW stopped installing these strips after they found (hopefully via scientific enough methods). That is proof that the strips don't do much, if anything.
If BMW started installing these strips after a certain date, that would be the proof that you seek.

It's not that BMW didn't want the cabin to sound too insulated. You do realize that the engine noise that you hear in the M2 is fake, piped in through the speakers, yes? No weather stripping would change any of that.

Don't try and tell me what I hear in my own car. I know the difference between ASD and the sound of an engine. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Don't try and tell me what I hear in my own car. I know the difference between ASD and the sound of an engine. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Nobody is denying what you're hearing (or not). What you're experiencing is the very definition of placebo effect.
I refer you to my previous post.
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...&postcount=197

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by MPBK

You got it all backwards.
Being a penny-pinching company, BMW stopped installing these strips after they found (hopefully via scientific enough methods). That is proof that the strips don't do much, if anything.
If BMW started installing these strips after a certain date, that would be the proof that you seek.

The OEM process doesn't work this way. The original design did not have the strips. Either during an executive ride/drive, or some other feedback, a post-launch fix would have been the result of an assignment to a design release engineer to develop the part, identify the part number, release it to a supplier. All of this happens only with the evidence of a "miss" versus design or performance objectives, in this case, NVH, seemingly and more specifically, road noise. The new part would have had to be validated, measured, and assessed by the senior engineering management before giving approval to start production.

However, this extra part creates a burden...another part number to track, another supplier to manage or part count from an existing supplier, additional cost, additional labor op on the line where time/space must be allocated. All of these issues provide motivation to find a more efficient solution to the problem. As I suggested earlier, BMW, in the meanwhile, may have found another solution with other materials either in the structure/materials forward of the door opening (in/surrounding wheel well), a tire compound spec change to reduce noise, etc. After having demonstrated to themselves the value of the part which started the process to include it, the eventual disappearance is most likely due to finding a more effective solution. If it was proof of ineffectiveness, then you would have to indict BMW's engineering process which lead to creating and installing these parts in the first place. I do not have absolute proof, but as one from another OEM, I highly doubt that. The lack of benefit by some later model owners may just be evidence of BMW having found a more cost-effective solution to road noise.