[Vervain]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'd guess it's the normal switch from H rated tires to W/Z speed rating, so 130 mph to 155 mph.

Thanks. I thought it would have been more than 155 mph..

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

For $44+ big ones and its not even a true M car....this is insane

I'll look for a use Z4M or E36M and still have change for a 4x4 beater

And fuk the moonroof, put the LSD down there, man BMW is not BMW anymore...so sad

I had a 2002, 2003 and 2004 M3 E46 and the 2004 stickered for over $57K without Nav so actually these price out way below without considering inflation. Performance should be similar. I've looked for a used E46 for a year and most are either SMG or over 80,000 miles. The few I could find were convertibles or had many mods, they are really tough to find.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Anodite10

Thanks. I thought it would have been more than 155 mph..

All BMW's have a max governed speed of 155 when equipped with the right options, recently though they've opened up the option to raise the governor to 300 kph, 186 mph for an extra charge on the F1x M cars, but so far, that's been the only exception.

[Worra]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Easier to make about 7% of your buyers mad than 93%. Automatic buyers have been complaining for years that the auto is an additional charge, while Lexus, Infiniti, MB and Audi don't charge for it. So BMW changed it. Not surprising. Plus manuals hurt fleet efficiency averages.

If my dealer is to be believed, its even less in the US. They told me approx. 2% of ordered BMWs are manual transmission.

[Lucky13]

Since the M235 most closely compares with an E46 M3 this is how my 2004 M3 priced out 10 years ago.

Base price with dest. $47,775
Metalic paint. 475
Cold weather pkg. 750
Premium pkg. 3,300 moonroof,power seat, nappa leather (that's all you got)
adj seats/lumbar. 500
Xenon 700
Premium Sound (HK) 675
Aluminum int trim. 300
19" wheels. 1,750
Gas Guzzler tax. 1,000 yes it's right on the sticker and part of the invoice price
total. 57,245

So Xenons are part of the M235 and apple to apple base price would be:
M3 $49,775 vs $44,075 I included xenon and alum trim for M3 (standard on M235)

Pricing doesn't look bad compared to other BMW pricing historically it just looks bad compared to domestic competition.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Worra

If my dealer is to be believed, its even less in the US. They told me approx. 2% of ordered BMWs are manual transmission.

I've heard 7% is the take rate for 3's and 5's, I'd guess 2% is about right for total sales, but includes cars not even available with manuals, i.e. the 7er and X series.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Since the M235 most closely compares with an E46 M3 this is how my 2004 M3 priced out 10 years ago.

Base price with dest. $47,775
Metalic paint. 475
Cold weather pkg. 750
Premium pkg. 3,300 moonroof,power seat, nappa leather (that's all you got)
adj seats/lumbar. 500
Xenon 700
Premium Sound (HK) 675
Aluminum int trim. 300
19" wheels. 1,750
Gas Guzzler tax. 1,000 yes it's right on the sticker and part of the invoice price
total. 57,245

So Xenons are part of the M235 and apple to apple base price would be:
M3 $49,775 vs $44,075 I included xenon and alum trim for M3 (standard on M235)

Pricing doesn't look bad compared to other BMW pricing historically it just looks bad compared to domestic competition.

Thats great comparsion...any comparo for m235 vs M1

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Since the M235 most closely compares with an E46 M3 this is how my 2004 M3 priced out 10 years ago.

Base price with dest. $47,775
Metalic paint. 475
Cold weather pkg. 750
Premium pkg. 3,300 moonroof,power seat, nappa leather (that's all you got)
adj seats/lumbar. 500
Xenon 700
Premium Sound (HK) 675
Aluminum int trim. 300
19" wheels. 1,750
Gas Guzzler tax. 1,000 yes it's right on the sticker and part of the invoice price
total. 57,245

So Xenons are part of the M235 and apple to apple base price would be:
M3 $49,775 vs $44,075 I included xenon and alum trim for M3 (standard on M235)

Pricing doesn't look bad compared to other BMW pricing historically it just looks bad compared to domestic competition.

adjusting for inflation, $49,775 = $61,430 in 2013 money, using an inflation calculator. It is not directly comparable without an inflation adjustment.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IancoleTX

Amen, I threw a shit fit when they changed pricing to make us eat auto trans cost. Absolute garbage.

The only thing I can think is that it must be the overwhelming majority choice for transmission--perhaps it costs "more" in time or machinery to have the manuals put in less than 10% of the time?

Perhaps in their mind, being BMW's, the thought is that making the manual transmission a no cost option is a bit of a gift to us, since overall, that option is more expensive for them to produce.

Still don't like the shift, but if that's the case, I can at least understand the thinking...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by termigni

but I'd say "real" M cars had problems of their own. take for example E46M3; it has VANOS issues, and cracking subframe issues. and that's no small issue.

This would be my main fear of any used M car--you just can't be predict how that is going to shake out.

Take into account that perhaps M cars are driven harder, tracked more often, etc., the potential for higher operational costs has to factor into the discussion one way or another.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The only thing I can think is that it must be the overwhelming majority choice for transmission--perhaps it costs "more" in time or machinery to have the manuals put in less than 10% of the time?

Perhaps in their mind, being BMW's, the thought is that making the manual transmission a no cost option is a bit of a gift to us, since overall, that option is more expensive for them to produce.

Still don't like the shift, but if that's the case, I can at least understand the thinking...

Also less cars to spread around for R&D costs for the transmission.

[Undertow]

Deposit in for a M235i European Delivery. Can't wait.

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Since the M235 most closely compares with an E46 M3 this is how my 2004 M3 priced out 10 years ago.

Base price with dest. $47,775
Metalic paint. 475
Cold weather pkg. 750
Premium pkg. 3,300 moonroof,power seat, nappa leather (that's all you got)
adj seats/lumbar. 500
Xenon 700
Premium Sound (HK) 675
Aluminum int trim. 300
19" wheels. 1,750
Gas Guzzler tax. 1,000 yes it's right on the sticker and part of the invoice price
total. 57,245

So Xenons are part of the M235 and apple to apple base price would be:
M3 $49,775 vs $44,075 I included xenon and alum trim for M3 (standard on M235)

Pricing doesn't look bad compared to other BMW pricing historically it just looks bad compared to domestic competition.

This is a great comparison, IMO.

I feel the M235i is a solid offering at the price point. It's going to be faster than a e46 M3, possibly on par with the 1M, more fuel efficient than the past two previous M3's and more standard options from BMW than I can remember at the current price point.

I optioned mine out to $51,100. Pretty much loaded besides two packages which saved $1,500 of useless features.

If you want more bang for your buck, you need to look elsewhere. BMW's were never known to be the best bang for your buck type of cars.

[cvandenhaute]

Nice $5,000 more than my 2011 128i for exactly the same equipment and in exchange I get an uninspiring 4 banger turbo and a disconnected steering, no thanks I will pass and go check something else designed for a car enthusiast

[bimmer4life24]

Originally Posted by warmtoes

I don't know what it will be like for a M235i but I have recently driven a 435i xDrive in an autocross setting and it was phenomenal. I was expecting it to be too high and not grounded enough but it was impressive especially when accelerating out of sharp turn. If you accelerate at the apex it literally pulls you out of the turn with a slingshot like feel and it's stable.

Originally Posted by termigni

I have driven 650i, 650i Xdrive, and M6 on Track (Monticello, NY) for a few hours.

You can research how the Xdrive system works so I won't go into tech specs on that.

1st, Xdrive system is very capable on track. very fun, very fast, solid, stable, and feels very neutral all throughout the track. I was simply surprised at how any of the 6 series can be so capable on the track because I thought they were supposed to be touring cars.

Once I hit the first corner in the RWD 6 series, I started to appreciate the lightness and nimbleness of the RWD car. there was easily noticeable lightness to it even from the acceleration. RWD is simply a better car on the track. RWD was more fun but I'm not saying xdrive isn't fun at all. If I were to rate the performance aspect of each car on 1-10 scale, I would put the Xdrive at 7, RWD at 8.5, and M6 at 10.

M6 on track is in another league. Monster of a car. it has so much torque that I was turning the car with the throttle with ease. very stable, rock solid, super HP, super TQ, and super grip.

So back to your question, is xdrive worth it on M235? IMO, no, xdrive doesn't belong on the 2 series. we have 3 series for that. 2 series is supposed to be a fun car. if you get a lot of snow, put on some blizzaks and you will be more than fine with RWD. How I know? I used to drive my S2000 in the winter on blizzaks for 2 years without a problem.

no comment on 0-60 times or 40-60 times...

Thanks for your opinions, guys. I think the best thing to do is not get the xDrive and hopefully have the option of LSD on the M235i. That way I get the most fun out of the car while also not having as much trouble in snow.

The 228 is just not worth it after adding all the Msport options. Basically pay an extra $4k and you have yourself a much better car. However, the M235i does come a bit pricey as well. I may have to go with the 2015 Golf R. They are posting some monster numbers on that car and will only be around $40k.

We'll see what happens. My ultimate choice would be an M2, obviously have to wait and see what those numbers will show...

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by cvandenhaute

Nice $5,000 more than my 2011 128i for exactly the same equipment and in exchange I get an uninspiring 4 banger turbo and a disconnected steering, no thanks I will pass and go check something else designed for a car enthusiast

I take it you haven't driven an N20? Living in CO you'd have double the benefit that us flatlanders have. The steering is likely to be a legitimate complaint though.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by bimmer4life24

Thanks for your opinions, guys. I think the best thing to do is not get the xDrive and hopefully have the option of LSD on the M235i. That way I get the most fun out of the car while also not having as much trouble in snow.

The 228 is just not worth it after adding all the Msport options. Basically pay an extra $4k and you have yourself a much better car. However, the M235i does come a bit pricey as well. I may have to go with the 2015 Golf R. They are posting some monster numbers on that car and will only be around $40k.

We'll see what happens. My ultimate choice would be an M2, obviously have to wait and see what those numbers will show...

yea for a $4k difference between i6t and i4t, I would go ith M235i. it would be a different story if you are looking at non M-package 228.

btw, 2.0t i4T engine is awesome. I have a 528i. def lovely engine, and it should be even better in much lighter chassis.

[cvandenhaute]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I take it you haven't driven an N20? Living in CO you'd have double the benefit that us flatlanders have. The steering is likely to be a legitimate complaint though.

I have, I cannot stand the diesel sound and I don't care for the power and torque delivery, love the linearity and sound of the N52 even if I probably lost 23 ponies when I moved here. The N20 is a good engine, it is just unexciting and uninspiring and I have a hard time paying more than 40K for something equipped with a 4 pot engine. The only reason I bought a BMW in the first place is gone, don't like the brand enough to pay so much money for something (probably - I would still give it a test drive before being that definitive) less special than my current car... Too bad, i think it looks good...

[cvandenhaute]

Originally Posted by bimmer4life24

Thanks for your opinions, guys. I think the best thing to do is not get the xDrive and hopefully have the option of LSD on the M235i. That way I get the most fun out of the car while also not having as much trouble in snow.

The 228 is just not worth it after adding all the Msport options. Basically pay an extra $4k and you have yourself a much better car. However, the M235i does come a bit pricey as well. I may have to go with the 2015 Golf R. They are posting some monster numbers on that car and will only be around $40k.

We'll see what happens. My ultimate choice would be an M2, obviously have to wait and see what those numbers will show...

Not sure if there will be a 2015 Golf R in the US (they tend to come much later than in Europe, likely every 4 years) and if the R follows the same trend as the MK7 GTI, it could be a very frustrating car given all the restrictions imposed by the e-nannies (that cannot be defeated, very sad test drive from Fisth Gear)...

[warmtoes]

Originally Posted by bimmer4life24

Thanks for your opinions, guys. I think the best thing to do is not get the xDrive and hopefully have the option of LSD on the M235i. That way I get the most fun out of the car while also not having as much trouble in snow.

The 228 is just not worth it after adding all the Msport options. Basically pay an extra $4k and you have yourself a much better car. However, the M235i does come a bit pricey as well. I may have to go with the 2015 Golf R. They are posting some monster numbers on that car and will only be around $40k.

We'll see what happens. My ultimate choice would be an M2, obviously have to wait and see what those numbers will show...

Another thing against xDrive for the M235i at least in Canada is that it adds $3750 to the price which is a lot.

[warmtoes]

Originally Posted by David1

If you think a 435X drive is a good auto X car you need to go back and drive a good auto x car. I have driven the 435 X drive and the car rolls and understeers like a pig. It is one of the worst cars I have driven for auto X.

I never said it was a good auto x car. I said when I drove it on an auto x "like" track it handled quite well. Unfortunately, they didn't give us the regular 435i to drive against it so I'll take your word for it although in the sharp turns coming out of a loop I didn't find it understeered unless you didn't hit the acceleration at the right time or if I let off the accelerator since it isn't like driving a rwd car. I was doing it wrong initially and the BMW driving instructor changed how I came out of the loop and it made a world of difference. It actually felt like it sucked me out of the corner.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by cvandenhaute

I have, I cannot stand the diesel sound and I don't care for the power and torque delivery, love the linearity and sound of the N52 even if I probably lost 23 ponies when I moved here. The N20 is a good engine, it is just unexciting and uninspiring and I have a hard time paying more than 40K for something equipped with a 4 pot engine. The only reason I bought a BMW in the first place is gone, don't like the brand enough to pay so much money for something (probably - I would still give it a test drive before being that definitive) less special than my current car... Too bad, i think it looks good...

I don't really disagree with any of that. Of course direct injection is likely to be on nearly any new car, so the "diesel sound" is becoming pretty standard.

As for the R, current rumors seem to be that it will be here in the later half of next year. It's easy to remove the nannies with after market tuning, at least on the Mk6, and I'm sure they'll sort it out on the Mk7. I'm still curious to see what the Haldex ratio is on the Mk7.