[RWDdrifter]

I've noticed that the driving mode controls behave in two undocumented ways.

(1) A safety feature?
The Sport (up) button must be pressed twice within about 3 seconds to switch from Sport mode to Sport+ mode . If you are already in Sport mode then pressing the Sport (up) button just once causes the word Sport to be displayed, but doesn't change the car to Sport+ mode. In effect, you need to double-press the Sport button, similar to double clicking a computer mouse button, to get to Sport+ mode.

Attached below is a diagram that illustrates how the car responds to the Sport (up) and ECO PRO (down) buttons in changing among the four driving modes (which BMW calls “programs” in the manual).

Granted, this is a small nuisance, hardly worth mentioning. I noticed it long ago and probably everyone knows about it already. I only include it here because it's not in the manual and I don't like it. A single press of the Sport (up) button should be sufficient. Why require a double press to enter Sport+? My guess is that someone at BMW felt that Sport+ mode should be a little more difficult to enter because it includes a partial disablement of the DSC safety feature (switching from full DSC to Traction mode).

(2) A design bug?
No matter what mode you are in, if you press the DSC OFF button (turning on Traction Control) then the next time you press the Sport (up) or ECO PRO (down) button the car will respond in an abnormal way.

For example, suppose you are driving along in Sport mode and have pressed DSC OFF to enable TRACTION control. After a while you decide to change to Comfort mode, perhaps because you are approaching a bumpy stretch of road. You press the ECO PRO (down) button expecting the car to switch from Sport to Comfort, but instead it puts the car into ECO PRO mode! Similarly, if you are in Sport+ mode and press the DSC OFF button once or more times for any reason, then the next time you press ECO PRO (down) the car will jump all the way from Sport+ to ECO PRO mode!

This must be a bug in the BMW software (the driving mode programs and the code that controls them). At least I cannot think of a reason why the designers would want the car to respond in this illogical way. Jumping from Sport+ to ECO PRO, skipping Sport and Comfort, can't be what they had in mind. Also, turning Traction Control on and off, as described in the manual, shouldn't change the meaning of pressing the Sport (up) or ECO PRO (down) buttons, even temporarily.

These undocumented behaviors may exist in BMW models beyond the 2 series. Does your car do this too?

[XutvJet]

Yes, my M235 does this. It's not a big deal either.

The likely reason they (meaning BMW's lawyers) want you to push the Sport button twice to engage Sport+ is to make sure that you want to do it. The reason being Sport+ dials back some of the stability control system and allows for some sliding which could catch a rookie off guard, especially if they're in the wet and mash the gas in a turn (i.e. Sport+ likely won't save you from that stupidity).

As for the other characteristics you mention when pushing the ECO button, it's simply the logic BMW choose to go with. It restarts the driving mode process at the least aggressive setting.

[RWDdrifter]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

As for the other characteristics you mention when pushing the ECO button, it's simply the logic BMW choose to go with. It restarts the driving mode process at the least aggressive setting.

Thanks, but I don't buy this explanation at all. When in Sport+ mode Traction Control is on by default, and pressing ECO PRO (down) puts the car into Sport mode (rather than in the least aggressive mode).

The case I described, pressing DSC OFF while in Sport+ mode, turns Traction Control off, fully enabling DSC, making the car safer. So why then in this safer state would pressing ECO PRO (down) skip past Sport and Comfort modes?

It's complicated. I drew a state diagram. Some states are unimportant. E.g., while you are in Sport+ mode you probably would not ever use DSC OFF to turn off Traction Control. Instead you would just drop down one level to Sport mode.

The real world case that matters to me is the following:
I've configured the Sport mode settings to have the Sport Chassis but the Comfort (linear) Drivetrain. In this customized Sport mode I turn Traction Control on using the DSC OFF button. Then some time later, down the road, I want to go to Comfort mode. I press ECO PRO (down) and the car skips Comfort mode, requiring me to press Sport to get to Comfort.

The second behavior I described does not have a safety benefit.

[Maynard]

I think that when you hit DSC OFF it automatically puts you back into comfort mode, so from there, the button-down is eco, and button-up is sport.

And I think DSC is not really safer - it is the 'nannies-off' option; IMO better to use sport+, reduced but still with some safety (I know - tons of debate on this).

I just saw somebody had a nice factory chart with how this sorted out, but DK where (will add that if I can find it).

[XutvJet]

Sell the car?

It seems totally insignificant and it's an intentional design by BMW. Also any good driver would not be changing driving modes during aggressive driving manuvers thus there's no safety concern here.

What frustrates me about driving modes is not having a Sport+ mode without the touchy throttle. I've got every other option.

[B_Rice]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Sell the car?

It seems totally insignificant and it's an intentional design by BMW. Also any good driver would not be changing driving modes during aggressive driving manuvers thus there's no safety concern here.

What frustrates me about driving modes is not having a Sport+ mode without the touchy throttle. I've got every other option.

What else is there on sport+ mode?

[Sypher]

This is nothing new and has been documented before.

[redontheline]

http://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=71296

That would be me. Think of DSC Off as a 5th or 6th driving mode on the rocker button, not an adjustment within the rocker modes (eco up to S+). It's not intuitive but it's verily true.

For the first gripe, go from comfort to S+ with 2 quick presses. Go from Sport to S+ with two quick presses. It's very clearly by design, just like cruise control kicks you out of S+.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by B_Rice

What else is there on sport+ mode?

I want the Sport steering, the Sport suspension, and the Sport+ nanny reduction so that I can get some spin and sliding. There is no such setting on the car. You can adjust Sport to have the Sport suspension and steering, but all the nannies are turned on and in this car, those nannies work really hard to kill all evidence of wheel spin and sliding.

With the auto car, it's probably not a big deal, but with the manual cars, the Sport throttle setting can be a bit touchy and make leaving the line in 1st and the 1-2 shift a bit unsmooth. It's sometimes frustrating to those of us that have been driving manuals for years and have the ability to shift buttery smooth when we want to.

[RWDdrifter]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I think that when you hit DSC OFF it automatically puts you back into comfort mode, so from there, the button-down is eco, and button-up is sport.

And I think DSC is not really safer - it is the 'nannies-off' option; IMO better to use sport+, reduced but still with some safety (I know - tons of debate on this).

I just saw somebody had a nice factory chart with how this sorted out, but DK where (will add that if I can find it).

Thanks. Yes, evidently pressing DSC OFF in any drive mode puts the car in Comfort mode with Traction Control on. That's a bit different from what I thought was happening but still a bad result IMO.

I can configure the Sport mode settings to have Sport Suspension with Comfort Drivetrain. Unfortunately, there is no way to turn on Traction Control while remaining in Sport mode. It's disappointing. BMW will let us use Traction Control in Sport+ or Comfort modes, but not in Sport mode.

[nike001]

Just drive the damn car. I honestly cannot even comprehend everything you wrote because it's so far off.

DSC OFF means just that. Dynamic Stability Control is OFF. DSC encompasses stability AND traction control. No nannies. Go try your luck with this mode engaged, "RWD Drifter."

TRACTION (one press of DSC button) or the "+" of Sport+ takes only stability control off, but leaves traction. So, the car lets you slide it out but won't let you roast the tires off sideways. It'll line you back up straight to continue on.

Quit thinking too much into it. The car was designed to operate how it's operating. Drive it.

[amw896]

Originally Posted by nike001

Just drive the damn car. I honestly cannot even comprehend everything you wrote because it's so far off.

DSC OFF means just that. Dynamic Stability Control is OFF. DSC encompasses stability AND traction control. No nannies. Go try your luck with this mode engaged, "RWD Drifter."

TRACTION (one press of DSC button) or the "+" of Sport+ takes only stability control off, but leaves traction. So, the car lets you slide it out but won't let you roast the tires off sideways. It'll line you back up straight to continue on.

Quit thinking too much into it. The car was designed to operate how it's operating. Drive it.

cheers.

[Joaco135]

Originally Posted by nike001

Just drive the damn car. I honestly cannot even comprehend everything you wrote because it's so far off.

DSC OFF means just that. Dynamic Stability Control is OFF. DSC encompasses stability AND traction control. No nannies. Go try your luck with this mode engaged, "RWD Drifter."

TRACTION (one press of DSC button) or the "+" of Sport+ takes only stability control off, but leaves traction. So, the car lets you slide it out but won't let you roast the tires off sideways. It'll line you back up straight to continue on.

Quit thinking too much into it. The car was designed to operate how it's operating. Drive it.

[Deutsche-Broke]

Originally Posted by nike001

Just drive the damn car. I honestly cannot even comprehend everything you wrote because it's so far off.

DSC OFF means just that. Dynamic Stability Control is OFF. DSC encompasses stability AND traction control. No nannies. Go try your luck with this mode engaged, "RWD Drifter."

TRACTION (one press of DSC button) or the "+" of Sport+ takes only stability control off, but leaves traction. So, the car lets you slide it out but won't let you roast the tires off sideways. It'll line you back up straight to continue on.

Quit thinking too much into it. The car was designed to operate how it's operating. Drive it.

Now, I just want to know if the DSC can be hacked.... Because I've read...............

[Xiaoxi]

You're overthinking this.

Just think of comfort as the neutral mode. DSC OFF is essentially neutral mode throttle with sport chassis (and no nannies of course). So in that way, it makes sense when pressing either up or down will bring you to Sport or Eco.

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by nike001

DSC OFF means just that. Dynamic Stability Control is OFF. DSC encompasses stability AND traction control. No nannies. Go try your luck with this mode engaged, "RWD Drifter."

Yup.

Originally Posted by nike001

TRACTION (one press of DSC button) or the "+" of Sport+ takes only stability control off, but leaves traction. So, the car lets you slide it out but won't let you roast the tires off sideways. It'll line you back up straight to continue on.

Nope.

TRACTION mode means that the traction control system setpoint is turned down, allowing some wheelspin, but not an unconstrained amount. Stability control remains active, but may allow slightly more yaw before intervening. The design thought behind this is a situation such as trying to get going in snow and not wanting the car to pull the power off just as the car gets moving if the wheels start to spin.

Originally Posted by nike001

Quit thinking too much into it. The car was designed to operate how it's operating. Drive it.

Absolutely.

[Maynard]

I found this great chart in a very good thread about leaving DSC on/off. Worth reading the whole thing, but this clears up some of the confusion on this thread too. Hope I can figure out how to insert it here.

Originally Posted by Pparana

This is the info I am going on:

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I found this great chart in a very good thread about leaving DSC on/off. Worth reading the whole thing, but this clears up some of the confusion on this thread too. Hope I can figure out how to insert it here.

here we go

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

here we go

That chart keeps getting posted, and it's not correct for a 2-series. It's from a 2014 335i that has both the uprated power kit and a performance exhaust. That particular combination differs from other 3-series cars, let alone the stock 2-series.

• The "kickdown" and "hold redline" columns are wrong in certain cases for a 228. It's almost completely wrong for a 235, where, in every manual setting, there's no kickdown and redline is always held.
• Auto Start/Stop is configured as "last setting" for every mode but Eco-Pro, and only defaults on in Eco-Pro. It also carries through more of the modes.
• The transmission doesn't change shift speeds the way the 3-series does.
• The driveline and throttle mapping settings are configurable in Sport, so they may or may not behave as shown in the chart.
• Power saving features are configurable in Eco-Pro, so they may or may not behave as shown in the chart.
• There are only two exhaust burble levels on the 2-series, not 3.
• The eLSD function column is not correct.

The chart is a hint, but it's not accurate for our cars.

[XutvJet]

Yeah, I saw the ELSD reference and thought that was odd. I thought it was always active. Why wouldn't it be?

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yeah, I saw the ELSD reference and thought that was odd. I thought it was always active. Why wouldn't it be?

Yup. It is always active. However, since you can't spin the wheels in most modes without DSC's traction control function cutting power, people can't see it, so they don't believe it's there.

[RWDdrifter]

Wow! BMW apparently intended that the controls work this way!

All I wanted is Traction Control (aka DTC) with the Comfort Drivetrain and the Sport Chassis settings. That's not allowed. I can live without it.

The manual should mention that pressing DSC Off activates or deactivates DTC and puts the car into Comfort mode.