[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

When the brake master cylinder breaks it is a slow motion brake problem that first appears as a brake pedal problem. You increasingly have to depress the brake harder and harder to brake to stop. When Caddy decided to fix it I had to show that I had the brake pedal to the floor depressed smacking the firewall to stop that car. Even then you rolled a few feet before stopping.

I can understand that issue being serious and frustrating, but it is not at all common unless the internet decided to keep it's mouth shut about the issue.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by 15GT-TO-M235

still can't figure out your #'s for atsv for 515 per month inc tax, not realistic in my opnion and I do this for a living.

How is it not realistic? Here are the numbers. Pretty straight forward.

2016 ATS-V Coupe
MSRP: $72,905
Selling Price: $62,525
Acq Fee: $595
Cap Cost: $63,120 (Includes acquisition fee)
MF: 0.00014
Term: 39
Miles/yr: 12,000
Residual %: 62%
Residual Value: $45,201.10
Base Payment: $474.62
Monthly Tax: $40.34 (Tax Rate 8.5%)
Total Payment: $514.97

Due at Signing
First Payment: $514.97
CA Registration: $494.09
CA Tire Fee: $7.00
CA Electronic Filing: $29.00
CA Smog Abatement: $20.00
CA Upfront Taxes: $6.80
Total Drive Off: $1,071.86

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

You will regret it. I did. Within 6 months the brake master cylinder broke. Caddy denied the issue for 6 months. They only fixed it when I showed them the car would not stop. Of the 11 german cars I have had, I have never had a brake issue.

Overall the car has a cheap GM feel you will discover over time.

Caddy tried real hard to make an e46. I tried real hard to like it. But there in lies the rub. You should not have to try to love a car.

Your not getting a deal. ATS and CTS are sitting on the lots for months.

Cadillac ATS owner 3 years, thankful it was only a lease.

Yeah, I've heard the horror stories about GM. However, the ATS-V has some different components from other GM cars. For example, brakes are Brembo in this case. However, I agree that quality may be an issue over time. I'm willing to risk it for the level of performance the ATS-V offers. I've been researching the Caddy forums and while the car has only been out for about a year (in V form), there have been few issues reported. Sounds like these are pretty well built machines for the most part. Granted that opinion could change quickly given GM's track record, but on a 3 year lease I feel there is more reward than risk here.

Anytime you can get a $73k car (with incredible performance) for a payment in the low $500s, that's a great deal no matter how you slice it.

Also, I do not believe your issue was widespread as there is no mention of it online. To be fair, I've had my fair share of issues with BMWs as well (I've owned 6 in 9 years) so these sorts of things happen to many cars/brands unfortunately.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

How is it not realistic? Here are the numbers. Pretty straight forward.

2016 ATS-V Coupe
MSRP: $72,905
Selling Price: $62,525
Acq Fee: $595
Cap Cost: $63,120 (Includes acquisition fee)
MF: 0.00014
Term: 39
Miles/yr: 12,000
Residual %: 62%
Residual Value: $45,201.10
Base Payment: $474.62
Monthly Tax: $40.34 (Tax Rate 8.5%)
Total Payment: $514.97

Due at Signing
First Payment: $514.97
CA Registration: $494.09
CA Tire Fee: $7.00
CA Electronic Filing: $29.00
CA Smog Abatement: $20.00
CA Upfront Taxes: $6.80
Total Drive Off: $1,071.86

These are very good numbers, and not at all common, the dealer must be very motivated.

[Lucky13]

Pretty funny but Autoweek ran an article today about Cadillac and how they can't give away the CTS. 3 different guys gave reviews of the car and said its good but nobody wants Cadillacs except in China. Maybe equal to Germans in performance but the electronics are not and consumers just don't want them and people that own Mercedes, Audi and BMW's won't even test drive them, not my words but dirrectly from the Autoweek article today.

[abhibrandy1]

I will grab that ATS-V especially with the kinda deal you are getting!! It competes in a totally different class & is one of the best in its class. The only gripe is the CUE system.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by abhibrandy1

I will grab that ATS-V especially with the kinda deal you are getting!! It competes in a totally different class & is one of the best in its class. The only gripe is the CUE system.

It's is bad, really really, bad, and slow too. But I don't care, since everything I want is on my smartphone.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Yeah, I've heard the horror stories about GM. However, the ATS-V has some different components from other GM cars. For example, brakes are Brembo in this case. However, I agree that quality may be an issue over time. I'm willing to risk it for the level of performance the ATS-V offers. I've been researching the Caddy forums and while the car has only been out for about a year (in V form), there have been few issues reported. Sounds like these are pretty well built machines for the most part. Granted that opinion could change quickly given GM's track record, but on a 3 year lease I feel there is more reward than risk here.

Anytime you can get a $73k car (with incredible performance) for a payment in the low $500s, that's a great deal no matter how you slice it.

Also, I do not believe your issue was widespread as there is no mention of it online. To be fair, I've had my fair share of issues with BMWs as well (I've owned 6 in 9 years) so these sorts of things happen to many cars/brands unfortunately.

With BMW service, if you tell them you have a problem, they will assume that it is a problem.

With Cadillac service, you have to prove to them you have a problem. Otherwise they assume you are a crackpot.

[Pparana]

the residual on the bmw is a no go for a lease, throwing money down the drain. The caddy is a much better deal.

My ftype was 549 a month, 7500 miles a year. No way I would pay the same for a m235i vert. You would be better off buying it.

I would not worry about maintenance, its a lease, really there car, in there best interest to keep it functional.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

These are very good numbers, and not at all common, the dealer must be very motivated.

mf is great, 10k off the msrp. Hard numbers to beat. Residual is avg, but 10k off helps.

Def. a better proposition than buying.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

With BMW service, if you tell them you have a problem, they will assume that it is a problem.

With Cadillac service, you have to prove to them you have a problem. Otherwise they assume you are a crackpot.

Your BMW service experience has been different than mine. Sure, sometimes they will listen and assume it's a problem. However, I have had several situations where they forced me to prove there was an issue. I supposed it all depends on the dealership and the service advisor you work with. I assume Caddy is the same more or less. The Caddy dealer near me seems to have solid reviews, so perhaps I'll get lucky with my service experience.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

It's is bad, really really, bad, and slow too. But I don't care, since everything I want is on my smartphone.

They updated the CUE system in 2016 and it seems faster. Not on par with MB/Audi/BMW, but definitely faster than the pre-2016 ATS models. It's a sports car, so as long as I can make calls and access basic functions from CUE, I'll be fine.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Pretty funny but Autoweek ran an article today about Cadillac and how they can't give away the CTS. 3 different guys gave reviews of the car and said its good but nobody wants Cadillacs except in China. Maybe equal to Germans in performance but the electronics are not and consumers just don't want them and people that own Mercedes, Audi and BMW's won't even test drive them, not my words but dirrectly from the Autoweek article today.

I highlighted a part of your statement above which I think is the primary issue. If people did test drive the car, they would be impressed. Autoweek is not wrong in their opinion. However, I'm a car enthusiast and not concerned with brands/labels. I just like fun, exciting cars. The ATS-V fits the bill. Plus it's rare/unique, which adds additional appeal for me since I don't like to blend in with the crowd.

[DF]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

I highlighted a part of your statement above which I think is the primary issue. If people did test drive the car, they would be impressed. Autoweek is not wrong in their opinion. However, I'm a car enthusiast and not concerned with brands/labels. I just like fun, exciting cars. The ATS-V fits the bill. Plus it's rare/unique, which adds additional appeal for me since I don't like to blend in with the crowd.

But the build quality is shit. Gm is a shitty company. The dealer network Blows and the cars lose their value faster then a Ryan lotche endorsement deal. There is a reason enthusiasts don't buy them

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by DF

But the build quality is shit. Gm is a shitty company. The dealer network Blows and the cars lose their value faster then a Ryan lotche endorsement deal. There is a reason enthusiasts don't buy them

Sure, but it's a lease. If you find a better car than the ATS-V for $515 a month including tax, then definitely let us know.

[DF]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Sure, but it's a lease. If you find a better car than the ATS-V for $515 a month including tax, then definitely let us know.

As a rental it's great. Beat the piss out of it and return it. I was referring to why people don't buy them and why Cadillac is in trouble

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by DF

As a rental it's great. Beat the piss out of it and return it. I was referring to why people don't buy them and why Cadillac is in trouble

Definitely. I'd never purchase a Caddy outright. That would be financial suicide. Leasing one is the way to go. I was actually hoping for a 24 month lease, but the deal was much better for 39 months. Worst case scenario, I'm sure I could find someone to take over the lease really easily at that payment. Most ATS-V owners are paying over $700 per month on their leases.

[DF]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Definitely. I'd never purchase a Caddy outright. That would be financial suicide. Leasing one is the way to go. I was actually hoping for a 24 month lease, but the deal was much better for 39 months. Worst case scenario, I'm sure I could find someone to take over the lease really easily at that payment. Most ATS-V owners are paying over $700 per month on their leases.

My friend went to go buy one and sell his m3. The dealer was a shit head. He wrote an article about it on jalopnik

[15GT-TO-M235]

[QUOTE=335audioman;20430830]How is it not realistic? Here are the numbers. Pretty straight forward.

2016 ATS-V Coupe
MSRP: $72,905
Selling Price: $62,525
Acq Fee: $595
Cap Cost: $63,120 (Includes acquisition fee)
MF: 0.00014
Term: 39
Miles/yr: 12,000
Residual %: 62%
Residual Value: $45,201.10
Base Payment: $474.62
Monthly Tax: $40.34 (Tax Rate 8.5%)
Total Payment: $514.97

Due at Signing
First Payment: $514.97
CA Registration: $494.09
CA Tire Fee: $7.00
CA Electronic Filing: $29.00
CA Smog Abatement: $20.00
CA Upfront Taxes: $6.80
Total Drive Off: $1,071.86
that's a great deal, did you say the dealer was Massey?

[M2audioman]

[QUOTE=15GT-TO-M235;20437755]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

How is it not realistic? Here are the numbers. Pretty straight forward.

2016 ATS-V Coupe
MSRP: $72,905
Selling Price: $62,525
Acq Fee: $595
Cap Cost: $63,120 (Includes acquisition fee)
MF: 0.00014
Term: 39
Miles/yr: 12,000
Residual %: 62%
Residual Value: $45,201.10
Base Payment: $474.62
Monthly Tax: $40.34 (Tax Rate 8.5%)
Total Payment: $514.97

Due at Signing
First Payment: $514.97
CA Registration: $494.09
CA Tire Fee: $7.00
CA Electronic Filing: $29.00
CA Smog Abatement: $20.00
CA Upfront Taxes: $6.80
Total Drive Off: $1,071.86
that's a great deal, did you say the dealer was Massey?

Coulter Tempe

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by DF

But the build quality is shit. Gm is a shitty company. The dealer network Blows and the cars lose their value faster then a Ryan lotche endorsement deal. There is a reason enthusiasts don't buy them

Second and Third that motion! GM cost cutting is everywhere. People just dont find until after they have bought the car.

Plus there is no pedigree for the car except that GM tried to imitate a e46. Thats like saying we so unimaginative and crappy, we had to copy BMW.

Cadillac has an incredible history, but to copy the BMW playbook, is really an insult to the Cadillac brand. It says I give up, cant beat them then join them.

Which makes consumers wonder, why buy the imitation when I can buy the real thing.

Numbers are not the only equation in the car buying process.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

Second and Third that motion! GM cost cutting is everywhere. People just dont find until after they have bought the car.

Plus there is no pedigree for the car except that GM tried to imitate a e46. Thats like saying we so unimaginative and crappy, we had to copy BMW.

Cadillac has an incredible history, but to copy the BMW playbook, is really an insult to the Cadillac brand. It says I give up, cant beat them then join them.

Which makes consumers wonder, why buy the imitation when I can buy the real thing.

Numbers are not the only equation in the car buying process.

Just to be clear, BMW by no means invented the sports car. Many would argue that Porsche did. I would argue that almost every car on the market is an imitation of another car. Audi, BMW and Mercedes all copy from each other's playbooks. Do you really think the 6 series Gran Coupe would exist if Mercedes didn't come up with the CLS first? That's how competition works in the auto industry.

Now, I completely agree that GM has questionable quality. However, the ATS-V is, from a performance standpoint, an incredible vehicle. No one can argue that. Is the build quality on par with BMW? No, it's not. Does that mean the car isn't still a great value for the money (on a lease)? No, it doesn't.

I think we all realize that you are not a fan of the Cadillac brand. Neither am I to be honest. However, I am a well-versed car enthusiast that understands certain cars are worth the risk at a given price point and the ATS-V is one of them.

You can continue to buy BMWs and I'll likely be back in a Bimmer at some point in the next few years because I do like their vehicles. However, I can happily say that I'm going to enjoy owning the ATS-V because it really is a spectacular performance car that exceeds the M4 on a variety of levels at a lease price point more in line with a 328/340i.