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      12-15-2013, 12:11 PM   #89
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Food for thought:
The Z4 GT3 started with a variant of the S54, then the S65B40 (4.0) and finally has the S65B44 (4.4). So just because it starts with a particular engine doesn't mean it will stay with it.

The Race4Ring guys (division of Rent4Ring.de) ran a 120i with the 8 speed ZF this year in VLN. I believe it held up just fine.
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      12-15-2013, 12:46 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
Isnt this very similar to 1M engine/transmission/differential etc wise (everything minus body and technology)?
Not really. Some of the differences:

The 1M had a 6MT, the M235iR has an 8AT.
The 1M had control arms from the E92M, the M235iR's are from the M235i.
The 1M had E92 ZCP shocks and springs, the M235iR are KW/H&R.
The 1M had a street legal exhaust, the M235iR's is not.
The 1M had a heavily-boosted N54, the M235iR appears to have a moderately-boosted N55.
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      12-15-2013, 01:03 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealYourFace View Post
My quote function is messed up, but to Pete above, I feel exactly the same as you we want something that hasn't been dreamed up yet. But what if the displacement of a n20 based 4 cyl was beefed up to like 2.4L, through the use of larger piston bores, not a stroker. Could in theory keep a higher redline, while getting the increased low end torque out of the motor allowing for a bigger huffer. Granted, the way BMW must modify existing motors to make things make sense to the bean counters that may not be possible. Way back in the late 80's GM (Oldsmobile) had a modified HO Quad4 with a turbo that made like 250 hp. given the dramatic advances, I feel like there's something here. Even AMG has that hopped up 4 popper that is getting some nice reviews, but that thing is running some pretty insane boost right off the showroom floor.
So if I was at BMW... normally aspirated version of the S55.

We all know, the future of M is turbo, because of market pressures, etc. But what if it wasn't? Porsche just released two amazing new N/A motors in the GT3 and 918. Both make about 130 hp per liter, while the latter weighs just 308 lbs and makes 608 hp, nearly 2 hp/ lb. For reference, an S85 V8 is 445 lbs and 420 hp, or a bit under 1 hp/ lb.

If BMW wanted to, they could probably do a 3L, 375 hp motor for the M2 weighing little over 250 lbs. The lower torque of the motor would allow for a lighter gearbox as well, so total this would save nearly 200 lbs off the nose of the car vs S55. And since BMW doesn't mind making things heavier in the back to maintain close to 50/50 weight distribution, total saved overall might be closer to 250 lbs over the M3/ M4, and that's before you save weight with a smaller body and other stuff.

Sure CO2 will be higher than a turbo 4, but if there is one place you can deal with that it's in your smallest, lightest M car. 2900 lbs, 375 hp, normally aspirated and razor sharp. Sounds like a worthy E30 M3 successor to me.
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      12-15-2013, 01:06 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
Isnt this very similar to 1M engine/transmission/differential etc wise (everything minus body and technology)?
Not really. Some of the differences:

The 1M had a 6MT, the M235iR has an 8AT.
The 1M had control arms from the E92M, the M235iR's are from the M235i.
The 1M had E92 ZCP shocks and springs, the M235iR are KW/H&R.
The 1M had a street legal exhaust, the M235iR's is not.
The 1M had a heavily-boosted N54, the M235iR appears to have a moderately-boosted N55.
Define heavily boosted-

Fitted w 2 turbos the N55 is the better engine hens the S55 in the new M3/4
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      12-15-2013, 01:14 PM   #93
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The m235i racing would be road legal in uk if fitted with a catalytic converter and ok for emissions but effectively then it will be an m235i with cage and bigger brakes
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      12-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Define heavily boosted-

Fitted w 2 turbos the N55 is the better engine hens the S55 in the new M3/4
Just referring to the differences in power across the N54 family. The standard N54 was rated at 306HP, the uprated N54 (335is, etc) was 326HP, and the 1M N54 was rated at 335HP.
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      12-15-2013, 02:15 PM   #95
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I think I just filled the cup...
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      12-15-2013, 11:24 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Any ideas if this is road legal anywhere?
Not street legal anywhere I know of. It is intended to be a race car for track use so I doubt it would have airbags and some of the other required street safety equipment.
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      12-16-2013, 12:03 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
WEIGHT!!!???
Wondering the same thing myself. My guess is that since its not being added to the specs is roughly the same as the M235i - about 3200 pounds.

Just hope the M2 gets a significant weight reduction 2800 pounds or so, won't happen but I can wish.
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      12-16-2013, 12:21 AM   #98
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So the fenders are bolt-ons? Need more info ASAP about the car!!
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      12-16-2013, 01:16 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanceman View Post
This is not a ZF, people need to stop saying that. An torque convertor automatic CANNOT handle the heat generated of a racing environment (drag racing not withstanding).

It is a DCT, I bet $100000000000
I'll take that bet.
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      12-16-2013, 01:39 AM   #100
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I thought the Z4 GT3 has the P65B44 in it...

Would you still buy an M4 if the M2 was slightly faster? This is why I am thinking BMW won't release the M2 until a period after the LCI or after a certain.amount of F8X's are bought

If M becomes more of a sub brand then why can't they offer both NA and turbo engine models?

TBH I'd rather just go to an M boutique than the regular dealership unless I'm getting a car like a 335i or 335is or 135is until the next M comes out

While I like the new M3/4 I might be more willing to buy the M2 if it becomes more available

I still see BMW keeping m perf models like 7 series until the right market size demands a full M7 but I am still curious to see what comes out like.a M100 or a new M anniversary model or the rumored M8 or an LFA like BMW or a BMW version of the Supra

I have a feeling we will see really cool models come out but hopefully there will be some NA S65 derived engines in the mix
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      12-16-2013, 05:46 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanceman View Post
This is not a ZF, people need to stop saying that. An torque convertor automatic CANNOT handle the heat generated of a racing environment (drag racing not withstanding).

It is a DCT, I bet $100000000000
I'll take that bet.
Find me a torque convertor equipped non-drag race factory race car.

Oh, and if you think that the 8ZF was engineered for track use think again. What's more, if this is some prelude to the M2 the fitting of the DCT to the F22 would be amortized over that volume and make sense to trial here.

Shame really, I want a 6MT.
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      12-16-2013, 07:35 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz5150 View Post
Funny that is producing 333hp just like the E46 M3
I thought the same exact thing.
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      12-16-2013, 07:43 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratus650 View Post
Okay, i guess this car was designed in the weekend. Why? the wider fenders are fixed on top of the existing panels, probably with double sided tape
No they are not, because the wider fenders are there to ensure increased track width while maintaining suspension travel. And with the stock fenders in place, you can't have the required suspension travel for the wider track. The oridinal rear fenders are probably bluntly cut out as needed.
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      12-16-2013, 09:51 AM   #104
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holy crap...
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      12-16-2013, 10:07 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
So if I was at BMW... normally aspirated version of the S55.

We all know, the future of M is turbo, because of market pressures, etc. But what if it wasn't? Porsche just released two amazing new N/A motors in the GT3 and 918. Both make about 130 hp per liter, while the latter weighs just 308 lbs and makes 608 hp, nearly 2 hp/ lb. For reference, an S85 V8 is 445 lbs and 420 hp, or a bit under 1 hp/ lb.

If BMW wanted to, they could probably do a 3L, 375 hp motor for the M2 weighing little over 250 lbs. The lower torque of the motor would allow for a lighter gearbox as well, so total this would save nearly 200 lbs off the nose of the car vs S55. And since BMW doesn't mind making things heavier in the back to maintain close to 50/50 weight distribution, total saved overall might be closer to 250 lbs over the M3/ M4, and that's before you save weight with a smaller body and other stuff.

Sure CO2 will be higher than a turbo 4, but if there is one place you can deal with that it's in your smallest, lightest M car. 2900 lbs, 375 hp, normally aspirated and razor sharp. Sounds like a worthy E30 M3 successor to me.
I wish, but it's not happening. H/R FI I4 is to come.
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      12-16-2013, 01:21 PM   #106
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      12-16-2013, 03:59 PM   #107
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At sub 100k this thing is a steal..would also love to know the weight and whether or not it will be road legal.
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      12-16-2013, 05:02 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwando View Post
At sub 100k this thing is a steal..would also love to know the weight and whether or not it will be road legal.
Wont be road legal. It has a cage, no interior, racing exhaust, racing suspension, etc.

As far as the car being a steal, i think we'll be able to tell when we have more details. I've built many race cars and i can tell you that the real $$$ and the speed is in the small stuff.

- What is the transmission
- Bushings (spherical? Urethane? oem?)
- Which KW dampers (dampers range from $2,000 for a trackday susp to $20,000 for the real stuff)
- Which engine management. Again lots of $$$ here. Very hard to work with the OEM Equipment. I've spent $50,000 Worth of motec in a car.
- Dash?
- Pedal Box? OEM is worthless for serious racing.
- OEM style roll bars? Or blades?
- Brake rotors?
- In other words, is it a trackday car or a dedicated racecar?


It's all these things that make the Porsche GT3 cup a real, reliable racecar and such a bargain. Im not saying that its not going to be a fun car and that im not totally excited and happy that BMW is bringing out that car, but i'm wondering how much of a real racecar it will be and wether its going to be a bargain at $95,000.

That being said, I'm already trying to order a pair.
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      12-16-2013, 07:06 PM   #109
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could some one tell me what color is this? AW? MW?
kinda looks like MW to me tho
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      12-16-2013, 07:43 PM   #110
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Prob AW... not metallic paint
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