[USA-RET]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

You can basically boil all major world religions down to this with the added qualifier of "as long as you're not ruining anyone else's fun in the process" which is I think pretty much where we all landed on this topic.

^ Agreed

My "golden rule" is simply "Be Considerate". I used to think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" was good, until i realized there are some folks that like to take it up the keister, cut themselves or get beat up by women in leather...so the "do unto" doesn't always apply. Being considerate kinda covers all the bases w/o any drawbacks.

If the OP was in the right lane and got run up by that "douch-nozzle", I apologize for pontificating on the "felonious left lane lurkers".

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by aaaaah

Yes yes Captain Pedantic.

Colloquialisms are a thing you know, and it is commonly referred to as the fast lane because if you are overtaking then you are going faster than the person you are overtaking.

If you dish, then take.
Now, speed up or move over!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Okay, passive/aggressive ? lol, I joke.. But yea, I've been told I drive "Aggressive" according to opinions of primarily non-engaging drivers, "back-seat" for the lack of better terms. I call it, defensive driving.

My fiance would suggest I drive with enthusiasm, and I agree that would be the word of choice in this case. Her mother, though, another story. Too many opinions though, do what makes you smile

Her mother, eh? You know the defintion of "mixed emotions"?

Watching your mother-in-law drive your BMW off a cliff!

Ha....I'm joking of course too!

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

..
1. I was driving at the 35mph speed limit in the right lane. There is no passing lane as the road is a secondary street. I was mindimg my business when the Ford drove up and sat on my rear bumper. I don't think I was instigating anything.

2. Yes, I've driven all over the world, both as a service member (USN), and as a civilian. I've driven on the autobahn several times. I admire German drivers because of their discipline, especially when driving the autobahn. However, this road is a secondary road with a 35mph speed limit. There's no passing lane.

3. Concur. It takes a German 12 months and 1500 euros (in training costs) to get a license. I think we ought to do the same here.

4. See my #1. Also, there is no law in Virginia that requires you to pass on the left. As a result, we get DC drivers sitting in the left lane on the interstate. Very frustrating. At least now you can call the VA State Police and report a left lane hogger.

5. I rode for 4 years. I would NEVER ride in the metro-DC area.

Marco.

Responses:
1.) My mistake. Let's throw the left-lane discipline bit out of the window, though: What you did only egged on the douche-of-the-moment. He was plainly upset that you were going the speed limit -- on a road that I surmise probably sees traffic that regularly goes above the limit. In this case:
- What he did was illegal
- What you both did could be construed as reckless driving
- I'll say it again: If you behaved regularly like this on a motorcycle, you'd be either maimed or dead. Yes, I read that you rode for four years. I rode for more than 10, and in a metro area (Dallas) on mostly sportbikes. What you did you simply do not do on two wheels.

2) and 3). I lived in Germany for four years as a teenager (dad was an executive for AAFES). Even on secondary roads, which (as I'm sure you remember) are much narrower than those in the U.S., lane discipline is adhered to because:
- nearly everyone follows the same rules whether they are laws or not
- The cost and training you mentioned in 3).
- The punitive nature of many vehicular fines ( @BEM-S4 noted this)
Another factor that contributes to this: bicycle traffic. In Germany and most of Western Europe, they are treated as equal vehicles in terms of right-of-way, lane rights, traffic signage, etc. So are scooters and mopeds. Ever drive in an Italian city? If not, well, I'm convinced the experience would trigger cardiac arrest in the majority of American drivers. Scooters buzz around you like bees ... and everyone knows how to handle one.

4). Laws are immaterial here. We are talking about traffic discipline, of which laws are only a relatively small factor in. Remember my point about the no-passing-on-the-right Federal law on Interstates. If people obeyed that law now, it would create chaos because of the aforementioned left-lane-discipline problem. The bottom line is that driver discipline is fundamentally societal.

5). Already partially answered ... but I have to say that your statement that you won't ride in the D.C. area is telling. On a motorcycle, good riders bury their ego in their boots because letting that ego fly free gets you killed.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by moldcad

I live in Europe and even though I'm Polish, I drive frequently on the German autobahns. I followed this thread with interest and some amusement, the latter particularly caused by numerous remarks that "the US drivers are the worst ones in the world" and "you should drive in Europe to learn the lane-usage discipline". Well - I must tell you that it so happens the general consensus here in Poland is that its us the Polish drivers who are the worst; and while I find it (partially) true, it's easy to explain with the fact the "motoring culture" is only at its very early days, given that some 20 years ago we didn't have many cars, those with good and fast cars could be counted with one hand fingers, plus - above all - we didn't have no dual-lane highways (not to mention motorways) at all. So the society (I write "society" as a notion of motoring culture cannot be restricted to drivers only) is only learning driving our fast modern cars, on our brand new network of fine roads (including still very few motorways) in a civilized and above all - safe manner. Of course - as in the entire world - us BMW owners are considered the worst and perhaps rightly so, but I'll tell you some: while the BMW drivers are the most aggressive ones on the roads here, they at the same time are by far the best ones - simply because most of us are enthusiast drivers like myself (at my 63, I've been driving cars for 46 years now - of which the last 17 years it's been BMWs only).

Regarding the issue of left lane (the "fast" one as some people call and consider them, or the "overtaking only" ones as others consider them): this has been a subject of a very fierce discussion here too lately, and I can tell you the campaign against cruising on them has just started to bring fruits. This is encouraging as it proves the motorists (including most BMW drivers) are keen to learn, and are thinking and reasonable people. But in all honesty - and this has been my reason to quote what I did at the beginning of this post - this generally reasonable and right "recommendation" to only use left lanes for over-taking slower cars, then leave it immediately is counter-productive in some circumstances. Even here in Poland (not to even mention the German autobahns without speed limit, the number of which is shrinking by year unfortunately ), when someone drives really fast like over 200 km/h - in my opinion he/she should stay on the left lane permanently rather than change lanes constantly. The "return to the cruising lane to give way to those faster than you" started to create additional havoc on Polish motorways after people started to obey this recent rule, strongly advocated for by media, police and who not....And on the German speed limit-free autobahns, nobody in their BMWs, Porsches etc. covering long distances with a speed close to the car's limiter (ca. 150 mph, or 250 km/h) ever leaves the left lane, so they can righteously be called "fast lanes"! BUT: having said that, those drivers (most of whom really are the best ones) pay constant attention what's happening behind them on the fast lane they occupy: once they notice headlights of an even faster car closing the distance, they leave the fast lane immediately to give way...

So what is it I wanted to say, you may ask: well - basically that there are no hard rules that should never be broken, and everything (including not just the driving safety, but also traffic fluidity) is up to the human factor...The story described by the OP is the best illustration of that fact, and also (sorry pal - no offence meant) the best answer to the question if (and why) other drivers don't love us BMW owners too much... Even though, again generally speaking, statistical BMW driver is usually a good driver, in all countries all over the world.

Piotr

Are you really worse than the Italians, Greeks, or Albanians?

The following is just my opinion based on 37 years of driving experience.

Most drivers of "sport sedans", and brands of stereotypically "fast" cars, always get regarded as "fast and dangerous". In the US the propaganda has been to vilify speed as a danger and a "killer", as if speed is the major factor.
In fact, the vast majority of accidents are well under 40mph and within a few miles of where people live. Actual high speed accidents are not that common, however, as you all know, high speed accidents result in the greatest level of damage and death potential.
Still, those types of accidents are relatively rare.
And, I do not condone ultra fast driving on roads and areas where it's completely ridiculous to drive very fast. For example, do not drive fast in neighborhoods, on city streets, in areas where children are likely to be present, and on congested highways.

Our citizens have been led to believe that one can not drive fast and safely, and the only way to drive safely is to driver slowly.
Given how awful our driving license testing is I can see why this point of view is drilled into people's heads.
Yet, instead of instituting better driver training and stricter driver testing, states yield to allow even the worst of the worst drivers to have licenses, and then just have their police drive around and ticket those who driver over the limit.

In my state they passed a law that if a driver is in the passing lane and they are holding up a number of cars behind him, then even if that driver is going over the speed limit he can be ticketed.
I've never seen that happen, but it's a law.
It illustrates my point though. Instead of making license testing stricter by demanding that potential drivers demonstrate knowledge of the rules and laws of road use, they institute more punishment laws. It's like they've given up on actually educating drivers and just went for generating more tickets and revenue. Idiots!

I digress.
Point is, drivers of sport sedans, coupes, sports cars, do tend to drive faster than the average driver in an average vehicle. So, we get seen and labeled as "bad" or "dangerous" drivers.
As most of you know, we drive safer even at higher speeds, and our automobiles are designed to drive and handle at higher safety limits.
A vehicle designed for higher speed travel is a safer vehicle at speed.
Still, everything needs to be in moderation.

I wouldn't drive a large a$$ heavy SUV over 75-80mph. Those behemoths are just too heavy to stop as quickly, and way too top heavy with wallowy suspensions are not able to maneuver very well at higher speeds.
And yet, cross-over and SUV sales are through the roof and outsell sedans greatly.

When a good, cautious, and safe driver is driving a capable automobile at 15+mph faster, he/she is a much safer vehicle than those behemoths where the driver is in the passing lane going only 5mph faster than the cars next to her/him, while putting on makeup, or texting, or yelling at the kids, or all of those combined.

Speed doesn't kill, driver stupidity does.
I've been preaching and asking for MUCH STRICTER and tougher driver testing. And, there needs to retesting at least every 4 years.
Instead, some states, like mine (Indiana), if a driver has not had a ticket over the past 6 YEARS, then no driving or written test is required, just pay your money and renew for another 6 years. NUTS!

BTW, in the Chicago area where I mainly drive, I don't get much BMW driver hate. Drivers around here spread their hatred and idiocy to any and every auto brand.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Perhaps semantics, but let's distinguish "aggressive" from "enthusiastic". "Aggressive"is inherently hostile to someone/something else, incorporating an attack readiness posture. Our OP experienced a reaction to that. Under the standard definition of the word, I cannot agree with your presumption...however, without confronting, interfering, displacing other drivers, many of us likely engage in driving "enthusiastically".

Careful, your pedanticism is showing.
Member "aaaaah" may be watching.

[bimmerfile]

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Careful, your pedanticism is showing.
Member "aaaaah" may be watching.

I call my driving style "defensive aggressiveness". My 10-plus years on a motorcycle in a major U.S. city helped inform that style, but elements of it existed far before that time -- such as what I observed and experienced while living in Germany as a teenager in the 1980s.

Am I aggressive? Yes -- I'm aggressive toward placing myself in the best and most safe traffic situation possible. That means jumping ahead of others at stop lights, occasionally passing on the right, occasionally flashing lights at slow left-lane hogs, changing lanes to be first in an unoccupied traffic lane at a stop light, speeding up to stay out of someone else's blind spot, occasionally giving people dirty looks, etc., etc., etc. And etc. Oh: and profiling. Profiling cars and drivers keeps you alive. Some folks call elements of it racism. Sure, then: stick with that. Thing is, it works.

I am disciplined. I've become good at recognizing those who are not disciplined. You plan accordingly. If that's being aggressive, well ...

... GRRRRRRR! LEMME THROUGH!
:: FLASHFLASHFLASH ::
:: HOOOOOOOOOOONK!!! ::

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Yes and to go a step further as I'm sure you'll agree "enthusiastic" has its time and place - basically enjoy your car without causing unnecessary risks to others sharing the road.

I just ran out to the cleaners and took the "caution twisty road next 2 miles" sign as a challenge - but that's on a dry, sunny weekday 1PM. Not dark rainy morning when kids will be running to the bus during rush hour.

Yup, well said.

[Rayscott]

I gave up road cycling for the same reasons noted here. Too many distractions, drunks, druggies, aggressive drivers. I bike the trails where no motorized vehicles are allowed. We have had some good people killed here while cycling as a result of these inconsiderate drivers.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

I gave up road cycling for the same reasons noted here. Too many distractions, drunks, druggies, aggressive drivers. I bike the trails where no motorized vehicles are allowed. We have had some good people killed here while cycling as a result of these inconsiderate drivers.

My father used to own and operate a Courier company in Toronto in the 90's. They had over 20-30 cyclists, for a period of time. In the 2k era, they lost about 4 or 5 of the cyclists to do fatal accidents with other moving vehicles (3 were taxi's), and he couldn't live with the transportation industry any longer. Just a few years ago, another bike courier was slain by a Saab 9-3 due to a road rage incident, that driver of the car used to kill this man is literally walking down Yonge St, laughing about it, today

Why did I move away from a metropolis lifestyle? Oh yea... No one gives a shit about you, or the person you may love, dearly.

[aaaaah]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Careful, your pedanticism is showing.
Member "aaaaah" may be watching.

Careful. Let's not confuse semantics with pedantics.

[Northwest240]

As a driver out west, nobody follows the "left lane is for passing only" strategy because it is simply untenable. Traffic is too bad and there are too many cars to reserve a lane for passing. While most drivers do respect the "left lane is for faster cars" not all of them do and you frequently see people changing lanes to the right to pass what they deem as slower cars in the left lane. By slower, I mean cars who are only doing 10-15 mph faster than the speed limit.

There are some areas I've lived in out east where the left lane is a passing lane. I was once pulled over on the New Jersey Turnpike doing 70 back when there was still a federal 55 mph law. I lived in the DC area at the time. Fearing I was due for a traffic ticket for going too fast, the police car drew alongside me, pulled out a bullhorn and yelled at me to get out of the left lane. The police car then sped up to 90 and kept going.

I've also been in many European countries where people abided by the "left lane is for passing only." There, people would stay out of that lane and would only use it for passing. But those were mostly countries with low population and few cars, such as in Scandinavia.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Northwest240

I was once pulled over on the New Jersey Turnpike doing 70 back when there was still a federal 55 mph law. I lived in the DC area at the time. Fearing I was due for a traffic ticket for going too fast, the police car drew alongside me, pulled out a bullhorn and yelled at me to get out of the left lane. The police car then sped up to 90 and kept going.

We need more of these officers!

[USA-RET]

Originally Posted by Northwest240

and you frequently see people changing lanes to the right to pass what they deem as slower cars in the left lane. By slower, I mean cars who are only doing 10-15 mph faster than the speed limit.

When people are passing on the the right, the joker in the left lane should get the hint and move to the right lane regardless of his speed. Obviously the right lane is clear otherwise the passing cars wouldn't be using it.

Ride in the right lane until he encounters a slower car, and then pass using the left lane and move back to the right. Not a hard concept to grasp. Even with moderately heavy right lane users, swinging out to pass continually can be fun as you are "driving" your car.

Certainly when traffic is heavy, both lanes will be used and the above can't apply, however, in most situations (interstates, 6 and 4 lanes secondaries) moving to the right except to pass can and does work wonderfully.

[impulsE89]

I drive a roadster. Pick ups with lifts and the Escalade type SUVs must hate it. At a red light they will pull up behind within inches with their high intensity lights on. In congested areas with kids and crosswalks they will tailgate me. I will wave them by or pull over if possible. They will roar past only to get another hundred yards ahead and have to stop. Stupidity/testosterone/control freak/inferiority complex/personality disorders/ combined with phones, meth and maybe a handgun.
Leave them alone, try to forget.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by impulsE89

I drive a roadster. Pick ups with lifts and the Escalade type SUVs must hate it. At a red light they will pull up behind within inches with their high intensity lights on. In congested areas with kids and crosswalks they will tailgate me. I will wave them by or pull over if possible. They will roar past only to get another hundred yards ahead and have to stop. Stupidity/testosterone/control freak/inferiority complex/personality disorders/ combined with phones, meth and maybe a handgun.
Leave them alone, try to forget.

Sounds like Utah.

[VIN240i13]

My employment requires me to travel, when I have clients within a 600 mile radius of my home office I drive instead of going to the airport. My daily driver, a 2014 Honda CRV (boring but rock solid in reliability and comfort) is just a tad under 200,000 miles. I follow some basic rules driving the i10 corridor between Dallas TX and Jacksonville, FL.

First and most important, on a two-lane highway the passing lane is used for just that passing, I always get back into the slower lane as quickly and safely as possible.

When I get a clown who wants to kiss my rear bumper, first thing I do is check my speed, maybe I am going to slow. The last think I want to do is throw gas into a fire and aggravate some idiot by taping my brake, going slower or worse, impeding this person’s ability to pass.

Life is too important to lose it over some stupid road rage incident, the world is full of A-Holes, expect to meet them daily. Why become an A-Hole when you do meet one, just smile and let them pass.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

When people are passing on the the right, the joker in the left lane should get the hint and move to the right lane regardless of his speed. Obviously the right lane is clear otherwise the passing cars wouldn't be using it.

Ride in the right lane until he encounters a slower car, and then pass using the left lane and move back to the right. Not a hard concept to grasp. Even with moderately heavy right lane users, swinging out to pass continually can be fun as you are "driving" your car.

Certainly when traffic is heavy, both lanes will be used and the above can't apply, however, in most situations (interstates, 6 and 4 lanes secondaries) moving to the right except to pass can and does work wonderfully.

Completely agree.

However, most drivers in the US think there in the UK. You know, drive on the left. So I play along and pass on the right. <sarcasm>I love how people merge onto the highway and immediately get as far left as they can.</sarcasm> But, that mentality does frequently leave the right lane wide open, so good for me!

I also love slow vehicle lanes. I use them to pass all the slow vehicles (since the slow vehicles don't use it).