[bacampbe]

Hi,

I have a 2015 M235i vert that is about to come off of lease. I am considering swapping it for an M240i vert.

I just had the opportunity for an extended drive in a 2018 (also a vert), and noticed that the steering feels a bit heavier and much more planted. To be completely subjective, has a bit more of the "go-cart" feel.

Have there been steering and/or suspension updates in the M240i that would account for this? Maybe there's slight alignment differences, or the 2018 just has less wear? The M240i does have the staggered Michelins and I have run flats--could that completely account for the difference?

My nearest dealer has a 2018 with almost exactly the configuration I would want--except it's got run flats. (That's how I ended up with run flats in the first place.)

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bacampbe

Hi,

I have a 2015 M235i vert that is about to come off of lease. I am considering swapping it for an M240i vert.

I just had the opportunity for an extended drive in a 2018 (also a vert), and noticed that the steering feels a bit heavier and much more planted. To be completely subjective, has a bit more of the "go-cart" feel.

Have there been steering and/or suspension updates in the M240i that would account for this? Maybe there's slight alignment differences, or the 2018 just has less wear? The M240i does have the staggered Michelins and I have run flats--could that completely account for the difference?

My nearest dealer has a 2018 with almost exactly the configuration I would want--except it's got run flats. (That's how I ended up with run flats in the first place.)

From what you wrote, whatever 2 you have or get, you may want to consider this mod. I did this, and the effect gives you exactly what you seem to like....I feel similarly and it's not an overstatement to say I love the results. Search for the prior threads on this...

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...-arms/?pdk=AQE

[CP911]

I too have been wondering if the Electronic Power Steering rack was updated for either the new model year or LCI/mid-cycle refresh. I haven't driven a m235i, but I've read numerous complaints about the steering feel. I find my m240i coupe's steering and road feel to be pretty darn good, so I was just curious if there had been any changes to the EPS unit or software tuning.

Besides that possibility, there is no doubt your run-flat tires are causing you to have crappy road feel. They are notorious for it. Best thing you can do is swap them out for some good non run-flat performance tires.

[Dylan86]

Coming from Audi/VW the steering in the F22 is better, 10 fold. You do need to tinker with alignment specs and LCA's, to get it in the sweet spot, but once you do, it's about as "raw" of a steering feel you'd get from a modern sporty coupe.

[morphomeman]

How much wear do your current tires have? That will also be a factor, making it pretty much impossible to compare the two, unless you want to go out an buy a set of the same tires that come on the 2018 for your about-to-be-turned-in vehicle.

[XutvJet]

Which make of tires do you have on the M235?

[aozer]

It is 100% the tires. MPSS are in another league vs runflats

[Mr Carrots]

Must be an lci thing or just the tires,there is no difference in feel between my buddies 2016 and mine both with staggered PSSs

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

Must be an lci thing or just the tires,there is no difference in feel between my buddies 2016 and mine both with staggered PSSs

Great point. Could all come down to wheel weight and tire selection.

[bacampbe]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Which make of tires do you have on the M235?

I have the P7 all-season rft.

I'd expect the PSSs to make a big difference on the track, but I'm surprised how big a difference it was just puttering around town. How much is that just from the better tires vs the staggered config?

[XutvJet]

No offense but the P7 is a crap all season tire. The improved feel is all in the MPSS tires. They're flatter and wider (even in the front), have a much stiffer and bigger tread block, and are far grippier. Even at 20mph you'll feel a difference. The wider rear tires and wheels help plant the back a bit more.

[bacampbe]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

No offense but the P7 is a crap all season tire. The improved feel is all in the MPSS tires. They're flatter and wider (even in the front), have a much stiffer and bigger tread block, and are far grippier. Even at 20mph you'll feel a difference. The wider rear tires and wheels help plant the back a bit more.

That tells me that the PSS are a required option on the next one, if I go that route--even though run-flats have saved my bacon more than once. It figures that the local dealer has one in the showroom that looks perfect except for the tires. I wonder if I could talk them into swapping them with another car.

[Maynard]

If it really is perfect otherwise, a full set of new MPSS is less than a grand. You could probably recoup much of that by selling the RFT's - there are often people looking to buy a set of runflats just so they have s/t to turn their lease in with. And be sure to check alignment, as that will also be a big factor in both handling and tire wear (I suspect it may get as little specific attention during the dealership prep as headlight aiming does, so if the new car doesn't feel right, have them run a check).

[bacampbe]

Originally Posted by Maynard

If it really is perfect otherwise, a full set of new MPSS is less than a grand. You could probably recoup much of that by selling the RFT's - there are often people looking to buy a set of runflats just so they have s/t to turn their lease in with. And be sure to check alignment, as that will also be a big factor in both handling and tire wear (I suspect it may get as little specific attention during the dealership prep as headlight aiming does, so if the new car doesn't feel right, have them run a check).

Going from the square run-flat config to the staggered PSS config would mean both new tires and wheels. How much difference do people think the staggering really makes?

[cxp213]

Originally Posted by bacampbe

Going from the square run-flat config to the staggered PSS config would mean both new tires and wheels. How much difference do people think the staggering really makes?

Assuming your wheels are squared, you don't have to get staggered wheels when getting staggered tires. You just simply need to get wider tires in the back that are of similar overall diameter as what they're replacing. If you can and want to get staggered wheels, then that'd be ideal but not necessary. Of course this is assuming that you're getting tires that are still within recommended widths for the wheels.

As for your original post, I'm pretty sure there are no suspension differences between the 235 and 240 variants. As others have mentioned, it could be due to the tire differences.

[Maynard]

You can certainly run performance summer tires in a square setup w/ your stock wheels - even a bit less expensive, and you can rotate F>R. Key is that diameters are the same, which is actually better w/ square (staggered tires are a little different). Unless you track, you will likely not notice the difference you would see with the wider rears (some do, but I suspect a placebo effect from just having spent all the $$$).

I would strongly discourage running wider tires on narrower rear wheels - unnecessary and actually counterproductive for handling, may not even be w/i safe guidelines (IIRC, the 245's may need an 8" wheel?). Wide tire on narrow wheel gives a very sloppy sidewall that is only good at the drag strip, not on street or track.

[ivegotklas]

I have staggered tire/wheel combo. The back wheels are wider. I'm running a square winter set up and you can tell the difference.

[Maynard]

I suspect that what you are noticing is the difference between winter and summer tires, not the extra 20mm of rubber (but there are people who will swear they can tell some improvement, even when just going 10m wider).

Main point is that a 225 tire on a 7.5" wheel will handle better than a 245 on the same wheel. And being able to rotate is a huge plus, especially w/ the MPSS. I'm in the same boat in reverse - don't want to buy new wheels to go to a square summer set up, or I'd be running square for this reason.

[XutvJet]

A 245/35R18 tire will not fit on the OEM 7.5" wide rim, thus why BMW is running 8" wide rims on the cars with the staggered MPSS setup.

Both P7 and MPSS equipped cars run 225/40R18 tires on the front. As taken from TireRack tires spec listings, a 225/40 P7 has a tread width of 7". A 225/40 MPSS has a tread width of 7.9". That's a pretty big difference in rubber on the ground, plus the MPSS has much stiffer and thicker tread blocks and immensely more traction. All that accounts for much better and heavier steering feel.

Additionally, a 245/35 MPSS has a tread width of 9.2" or a whopping 2.2" more rubber on the ground than a 225/40 P7 running out back. That is massive and visually, the staggered setup and MPSS has a lot more visual presence.

I run a square 225/40R18 Michelin Alpin PA4 setup on my OEM staggered wheels for my winter setup. I despise the looks and the much lighter steering feel. LOL.