[haffl]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Can we not make this guy's thread another AWD vs Winter Tires thread? Let the horses rest in peace.

As someone noted, you should have a year of free satellite radio. Might as well activate and use it. Also, try out the voice commands, as they're supposed to have gotten much better than they were in the previous iDrive - actually work. Didn't get to try it yet, but I will when I get my car back.

1 year of free satellite comes with the Premium package. I have the technology package (nav) which does not offer this service.

[haffl]

Originally Posted by BruceOmega

Lee / OP

Congratulations. Did you have a chance to compare a RWD M235i to your xDrive?

Its my understanding both have the same suspension, so am curious whether there is any difference in driving feel on public roads.

Thanks
Bruce

I did not. If I had I would probably have purchased the rwd version for the superior driving dynamics and lighter weight but since I only have space for 1 car and this is my year round DD, I opted for all wheel drive.

Yes I could have purchased a dedicated winter wheel set for the rwd version like I did for my 2009 335i but again space is an issue. And lugging 4 wheels/tires to the local mechanic every season just to put on winter wheels for 2 months is a hassle.

I've driven 2 VW GTI's in the MD/VA winter on all season tires and never had a problem. I'll assume if I'm careful I'll get similar or even better results in the M235xi.

[335BOY]

Read the links on post #22. Hassle storing tires? Hassle is being in an accident. It should be law IMO. No disputing the facts.

[haffl]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Read the links on post #22. Hassle storing tires? Hassle is being in an accident. It should be law IMO. No disputing the facts.

If helpful...

Yearly snow averages in Toronto:
47.8 inches w/40.9 avg days of snow

Yearly snow averages in Arlington, VA:
14.5 inches w/8.1 avg days of snow

Again, if I experience difficulty in the winter conditions, I will purchase a winter wheel set and make room for them at my house. Or just stay home on really bad snow days...that's always a cheaper/safer alternative, if possible.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Read the links on post #22. Hassle storing tires? Hassle is being in an accident. It should be law IMO. No disputing the facts.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by haffl

If helpful...

Yearly snow averages in Toronto:
47.8 inches w/40.9 avg days of snow

Yearly snow averages in Arlington, VA:
14.5 inches w/8.1 avg days of snow

Again, if I experience difficulty in the winter conditions, I will purchase a winter wheel set and make room for them at my house. Or just stay home on really bad snow days...that's always a cheaper/safer alternative, if possible.

I guess you didnt watch the videos. Its about temperature more than anything. Does it get cold there? A/S get hard when it get cold. Winters stay softer. I really don't care what you do. Just giving you the facts so you can make an educated decision.
Like seatbelts really. Nobody thought they were necessary. Carry on.

[augerpro]

Originally Posted by haffl

And here's the answer courtesy of BMW of North America's website.

The M235i has a tailor-made Adaptive Sport Suspension for even more dynamic handling – electronically controlled dampers in the Adaptive M suspension adapt to suit the current driving style and road conditions. You can modify the damper characteristics using the Driving Experience Control. Additionally, the Adaptive M suspension can be lowered by 10 mm, increasing the vehicle's agility. A noticeably firmer damper setting is activated when the Sport Mode is selected via the Driving Experience Control. In Sport+ Mode, the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) is replaced by the Dynamic Traction Control (DTC),which allows for even more dynamic driving.

Variable sport steering with Servotronic allows for direct and agile driving characteristics with minimal steering effort. It reacts by varying the steering ratio independently of the current speed. In doing so, it reduces the necessary steering movement to achieve a particularly tight steering angle. This greatly improves agility, particularly when driving dynamically around tight bends and curves or when swerving to avoid an obstacle. It also enhances comfort when parking, turning and manoeuvring. For small steering angles, the system provides excellent directional stability and a very high degree of steering precision.

Yeah I saw that under the M235xi description too, but I think a few years ago when I was looking at a 335xi and some handling package they showed the same thing, but in fact the 335xi did not have the adjustable suspension. If this is true this is really false marketing on that webpage, very low for a company like BMW. Can anyone else bring some clarity?

[chaswyck1]

You know you're addicted to this board when you live in Southern CA and you're reading a thread debating the virtues of snow tires.

[335BOY]

^ Love it! Its like a car crash....you don't want to look but you always do.

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Yeah I saw that under the M235xi description too, but I think a few years ago when I was looking at a 335xi and some handling package they showed the same thing, but in fact the 335xi did not have the adjustable suspension. If this is true this is really false marketing on that webpage, very low for a company like BMW. Can anyone else bring some clarity?

For the current generation 3 series, the F30, the DHP option is available with xDrive. With DHP, setting it to Sport / Sport + will stiffen the suspension. Without DHP, there is no change to the suspension.

Bruce

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by haffl

Pulled this information from the M235xi Vehicle Highlight section but it looks like they are only talking about the rwd "i" model. Oh well. The car still handles on rails.

My understanding is M235i xDrive and M235i RWD have the same suspension. If so, then it should apply to either one.

This why I am curious whether anyone has compared xDrive to RWD for the M235i- different than comparing xDrive to RWD for 3 and 4 series.

Bruce

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by BruceOmega

My understanding is M235i xDrive and M235i RWD have the same suspension. If so, then it should apply to either one.

This why I am curious whether anyone has compared xDrive to RWD for the M235i- different than comparing xDrive to RWD for 3 and 4 series.

Bruce

Is the ride height the same on the XDrive model and RWD?

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

What really gets old is how its been proven so many times that Winter tires are far better/safer in winter than A/S and people don't believe it. I wouldnt even run A/S on my car in the summer. Why would I? Guys like you don't and will never get it. AWD will not help you stop. THATS what matters. There are endless videos etc on line. A/S vs winters from 40 mph........Winters stop about 4 car lengths shorter. OP is talking about mostly highway driving? That would be way worse than only city because you are going so much faster. Its about temperature as much as anything. Its a safety issue. "I'll be fine". That s great.

You should not be driving at highway speeds on packed snow in any car and slapping winter tires on there is not a good reason to do so...even if you have 4 car lengths of extra stopping distance. Drive were there is real snow with an actual grade and I would see your rear wheel drive with fancy snow tires in a ditch period! AWD with snow tires is best case scenario but not necessary if you drive according to road conditions. AWD is always better than RWD in in the snow if you have any grade at all. Folks living in the MidWest that dont deal with mountains are not going to understand.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Can we not make this guy's thread another AWD vs Winter Tires thread? Let the horses rest in peace.

As someone noted, you should have a year of free satellite radio. Might as well activate and use it. Also, try out the voice commands, as they're supposed to have gotten much better than they were in the previous iDrive - actually work. Didn't get to try it yet, but I will when I get my car back.

Clearly people can't just shut up when it matters most.

OP

A picture is worth a thousand words.... Congrats regardless !

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

Is the ride height the same on the XDrive model and RWD?

I don't know.

I have seen posts by others who have looked at an M235i xDrive sitting next to an M235i RWD and they thought the height was the same.

Bruce

[five3three]

Originally Posted by haffl

If helpful...

Yearly snow averages in Toronto:
47.8 inches w/40.9 avg days of snow

Yearly snow averages in Arlington, VA:
14.5 inches w/8.1 avg days of snow

Again, if I experience difficulty in the winter conditions, I will purchase a winter wheel set and make room for them at my house. Or just stay home on really bad snow days...that's always a cheaper/safer alternative, if possible.

Exactly. Assuming you live in Arlington (since you pointed that out), there is rarely a time when you will be driving in snow. Even when it does snow around here, it gets cleaned up pretty quickly. Plus there's a good subway system so driving isn't necessary on bad days. Plus lots of folks can remote in on bad days.

I had summers on my 335 through the last 5 winters in the DC metro area. On a couple of days the weather was bad so I didn't drive at all. With all seasons you'll be just fine around here, especially with AWD.

There's rarely a time when you have to drive in the DC area when the weather is bad. If we were talking about further out in VA in the mountains where roads wouldn't get cleaned up and it'd snow more often, a case could be made.

Congrats on the car! If x-drive was available when I purchased mine, I would have likely considered going that route too!

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

I guess you didnt watch the videos. Its about temperature more than anything. Does it get cold there? A/S get hard when it get cold. Winters stay softer. I really don't care what you do. Just giving you the facts so you can make an educated decision.
Like seatbelts really. Nobody thought they were necessary. Carry on.

Not cold enough. I am speaking from experience, and that's why this winter I am staying with the all season Pirelli Cinturatos after 3 years of running Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60s. I do have 2 sets of wheels and tires. But for my winter set, I decided to go with all seasons rather than performance winter tires as I have used in years past.

I live by NYC, and even with the harsh winter we had last year, I can count on one hand the number of times I had to drive somewhere with enough snow on the ground to cover the black top. Even when it snows, the authorities do an admirable job clearing the snow, and within a couple of hours of a storm, the roads are mostly clear.

As far as cold, my Blizzaks felt squirmy on all but a handful of the coldest days. Frankly, all seasons handle and brake better on the overwhelming majority of winter here, and I did not want to pay the penalty that comes with dedicated winters for a handful of days when they might actually give me a slight edge.

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

There is little doubt that AWD can help get a car in motion from a standstill better than rear or front wheel drive, which is a nice convenience. After all, we do want to get places. But, those who believe in "you'll be fine" with all season tires in winter, regardless of two or four wheels being powered, simply haven't been in the situation (yet) where the proven superior capability on snow/ice of hydrophilic winter compounds and tread design made the difference between stopping or turning in time....or not, and hitting someone/something. AWD is of no help in those situations. The same mindset years ago used to proclaim they were "fine" without seatbelts. They just hadn't hit anything yet.

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...ur-wheel-drive

http://jalopnik.com/lets-settle-the-...bat-1462180324

A more recent car and driver story
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...hx-mxm4-page-3

A couple of things struck me about the story. The Pilot HX MXM4 and the Pilot Alpin PA3 got an identical skidpad measurement on snow. The Alpin stopped 10 feet shorter from 30 mph (95 vs 105), but needed 10 more feet to stop from 60 on dry pavement. The objective tests pretty much show that these two tires are fairly close. I would hardly call it a night and day difference.

The X-Ice had impressive snow and ice performance, but absolutely dreadful wet and dry braking numbers. I would argue that those of us in areas where we only get a handful of big snow days a year are taking a bigger gamble by running snow tires on dry pavement than running all seasons on an occasional snowy drive.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by scrape1

A more recent car and driver story
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...hx-mxm4-page-3

A couple of things struck me about the story. The Pilot HX MXM4 and the Pilot Alpin PA3 got an identical skidpad measurement on snow. The Alpin stopped 10 feet shorter from 30 mph (95 vs 105), but needed 10 more feet to stop from 60 on dry pavement. The objective tests pretty much show that these two tires are fairly close. I would hardly call it a night and day difference.

Not really a good comparison, as the Alpin is a so-called "performance winter" tire, a category which compromises both attributes. Please read about the X-Ice xi3 or Blizzak WS80 in the "studless winter" tire category. These are the real winter tires which should be used.

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Not really a good comparison, as the Alpin is a so-called "performance winter" tire, a category which compromises both attributes. Please read about the X-Ice xi3 or Blizzak WS80 in the "studless winter" tire category. These are the real winter tires which should be used.

I did. I even posted about the X-Ice in my comment. Specifically, how it's dreadful on dry and wet pavement. Which is mostly what we drive on around here.

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by chaswyck@yahoo.com

You know you're addicted to this board when you live in Southern CA and you're reading a thread debating the virtues of snow tires.

Guilty as well I still enjoy taking in info for other climates as part of my automotive encyclopedia knowledge base and tires/climate applications are always good to know more about.