[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by mcwinterr

.................................................. ...................................

And to the chap that said "you're crazy to DD a car like a M235 in this area given the well known road conditions," I respond by saying that we're driving in Manhattan, not Fallujah (the streets are bad, but even I exaggerate how bad they are; probably on par with any urban area)............................... ,................................................. .....................................

Well, if that were the case, we'd certainly be hearing about RFT tire damage from a lot of other folks on this forum who live in large cities all over North America and Europe.. I've been running RFTs for 16 years in and around the Toronto area and have never come close to a road imperfection which would cause the kind of damage described above.
Kinda sounds like 3rd world roadways to me.
As taxpayers, why not vent your anger and frustration at your City & State Depts responsible for infrastructure upkeep - that's not BMW's responsibility?

[mcwinterr]

Actually, it is the case, and has been a recognizable issue for a number of years:

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/we-p...-you-need-know

Additionally, BMW NA's quick response to reimburse me $1k for my new tires is actually quite telling. I wouldn't be surprised if I was not the first person to broach the subject with them, and assuredly not the last either.

The population of Toronto is a shade under 3 million people. NYC has 8.5 million. More people = more cars. More cars = more wear and tear on roads. It's a fact of life, kimosabe.

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Well, if that were the case

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by mcwinterr

The population of Toronto is a shade under 3 million people. NYC has 8.5 million. More people = more cars. More cars = more wear and tear on roads. It's a fact of life, kimosabe.

Well, actually, the busiest highway with the most daily traffic (500,000 vehicles daily) in North America is Hwy 401 which runs through Toronto, but the road systems are maintained so I'm not buying that argument that heavy traffic has to result in 3rd world road systems. (see url below).
Back in 1987, Peter Ustinov called Toronto “New York run by the Swiss”. Maybe he was right.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-bu...ica-1559577839

[bensanford]

After reading of experiences people have had with run-flats, I attempted to order a 2018 230i with non run-flat tires. The only way I can do this is to order the Track performance package - according to my dealer. I don't understand why BMW is apparently so fixated with selling run-flat tires on their new production

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by bensanford

After reading of experiences people have had with run-flats, I attempted to order a 2018 230i with non run-flat tires. The only way I can do this is to order the Track performance package - according to my dealer. I don't understand why BMW is apparently so fixated with selling run-flat tires on their new production

Are you leasing?

[bensanford]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Are you leasing?

No, purchasing. I tend to keep my cars for close to 10 years

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by bensanford

No, purchasing. I tend to keep my cars for close to 10 years

Well if leasing I would have said get the car with RFT and stack them in your garage for turn in while driving non RFT.

Since you are buying - do you want the THP? Are roads by you bad? Would sticking with 17" wheels be of benefit?

Lots of questions only you can answer. Most folks in your situation seem to drive the RFT until they are due for replacement then get whatever they want instead. That's the only real way not to waste any money.

[Fugly M3]

My guess would be...at some point early on with the front wheels you hit bad potholes which caused or led to flats at the time. That action probably also slightly bent the wheels which may be resulting in the recurring issues.

It could also be that the dealer is not properly mounting the tires...though I doubt it.

If neither of those is the cause...your "cautious" driving may not be equal to what others "cautious" driving is. This can be especially problematic if you don't have a regular commute and don't know where all the pitfalls (potholes, uneven pavement, manhole covers, etc.) are located.

Another question, have you left the tires on through the winter? If they are the stock summer runflats, the change in temperature may be wreaking havoc on them...below 40 Fahrenheit is a no go for summers. It doesn't matter that you have xDrive, it's the tire compound that may not be able to handle this...especially in the thick-walled runflats.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Look, the likelihood of this happening from rough roads is pretty high. If you were that concerned I would have done more investigation into the causes and when it was happening.

I had a period of time where I got 4 flats in the span of a year. But I know exactly why this happened. They were doing a bunch of construction near my work, got 2 nails a couple of months apart, and once I ran over a pothole with the left side of the car. Bubbled up and cracked part of the sidewall on my PSS tires. When I went in to get it replaced under warranty (Discount tire Warranty btw, paid for itself so far), they found that my front tire on the same side also had some minor bubbles, so they replaced both.

If this is such a constant occurance, why not just go to discount tire, and get their repair/replace warranty, its like $20 or something per tire, call it a day. You don't even have to have purchased the tires from them, as long as they are above the wear bars you are ok.

I get that this seems like it could be something wrong with the wheels or tires, but external conditions are much more likely.


So my best advice, and much cheaper than trying to sue BMW or Pirelli, is just get insurance on your tires from Discount tire (I am sure there are other shops that offer something similar), and be more mindful of where you are driving.

[BMWZ4]

Anyone holding a grudge against you perhaps...I mean, you mentioned at one time all 4 went flat...?...it's like someone is sticking a knife in your sidewalls or something and they go flat as soon as start driving.

Man, sure is weird. I've had a lot of run flat tires on bmws over the years and never had ONE flat. Zero. Pirelli and Bridgestone.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by jpg92515

Hi guys, OP here, the one with "more money than brains" and the story that's "not believable."

I had asked at the beginning that people keep their opinions to themselves of lawyers and the legal process I am exploring.

It is true, I am a lawyer, but I am posting this because this is what is happening to me.
As to why this "idiot keeps putting the same failing product back on their wheels?" that is because I followed BMW's advice, in that it was not recommended to have 3 tires of one type/make and one of another. Pirelli is the tire that BMW chose to sell with the car. My whole issue here is that I'm following BMW all along the way for what's best for the car, because I've been equally concerned with going against what is factory-recommended. As this is all unfolding, I'm adding one tire here and another there. Some very close to one another, sometimes it's the same tire. In retrospect, yes, I wish I had taken all 4 Pirelli's off the car and thrown another brand all around, but, contrary to belief here, I do not have that kind of money. Now I'm forced to do it.

As for whether "there is simply no way to get four flats at once without punctures," there is, because it happened to me. The two front tires had each bubbled/torn on the sidewall. One had torn, which needed replacement. The other had bubbled, but was not flat. In the time since I'd dropped the car off, the second tire had gone flat. I then received another email that the two rear tires were flat.

So no, I am not a professional driver, but I have been driving as carefully as I possibly can to avoid the repeated flat tires.

And for those continuing to offer helpful commentary, I have stock space gray 18" rims. I have been relying on the BMW suggested PSI on the driver's side door, and BMW's TPMS. Again, if I'm a fool for relying upon and trusting BMW's supplied PSI limits and TPMS technology, then that is exactly why I think there is a cause of action against BMW and Pirelli.

The fact you're a lawyer makes your case/argument weaker, not stronger. You may have heard about the duty to mitigate? If what you say is true, you have a clear issue with obtaining reliability from that particular tire/wheel combination, therefore it is reasonable for BMW/Pirelli to expect you to mitigate the loss. BMW has several recommended tires for each car so you had options through your dealer. Further, while I get the argument about one tire at a time, when it became clear that you had an issue, there is no way I believe for a moment that if you approached BMW and your dealer rationally that a compromise couldn't have been struck to put you in a different combination that might have served you better.

Originally Posted by mcwinterr

Additionally, BMW NA's quick response to reimburse me $1k for my new tires is actually quite telling. I wouldn't be surprised if I was not the first person to broach the subject with them, and assuredly not the last either.

Probably because you were reasonable and professional in your approach. Over another issue, I also received a $1000 settlement from BMW because I approached if factually and with recognition of their perspective.

I still have my doubts about the truthfulness of this whole saga, but if it's true then the fact that BMW and Pirelli have told the OP to get stuffed means he went in brandishing his law degree like a weapon and was a complete a-hole. Reasonable people get reasonable resolution if they approach the issue reasonably.

[msej449]

Firstly, the Torque News article is pure Fake News - throw it on the pile of second-rate motoring journalism where it belongs. It's neither systematic nor empirical and anyone from BMW or Pirelli would take it to bits with real quality control data in 5 minutes.

I might agree with observations that with runflats the price you pay for running flat is reduced agility and harsher ride. But only to a degree, and having driven both, for me the latter is not significant enough to make me move to non-RTFs. I absolutely do not see any empirical evidence for any suggestion that runflats are more prone to punctures. Just press hysteria. Individual owner reports can't possibly be meaningful in the context of the tens of thousands of 2 Series on the road each year.

OP - I think you've been badly served by your dealer, not BMW or Pirelli. A few dealer questions about where you live and where you drive would have thrown up that you're taking a performance sports car with performance summer tyres into a hostile environment. They should have had the sort of dialogue with you that you've seen on this forum, even if they'd still refused liability over who pays for a more suitable wheel/tyre configuration.

I don't think you can criticise BMW NA. They have to chose a default wheel and tyre configuration for each model to cover all scenarios. I think their case would be strong in terms of the spec' of your car being a reasonable compromise. If you have terrible road conditions locally, then it's a dealer responsibility to know local conditions and advise accordingly. Alternative wheel configurations are available to cater for such variances, even if the dealer never mentioned this.

I appreciate your position that it's the dealer who's the expert, not you. You don't know what you don't know. So you go with what they tell you. Which has been to just keep on replacing with the same tyres. They've not done the sort of Root Cause Analysis that I described earlier, nor discussed whether your requirements are outside the envelope of the stock configuration.

But I think that BMW/Pirelli will argue that, of necessity, they have to decide on a single, default wheel and tyre configuration, and that there is no empirical evidence that what you have is unsuitable. I imagine they'll cite the thousands of 2 Series sold in your region and the handful of cases of generic tyre failure, which they believe is due to extremes of road conditions/usage that is well outside the scope of what they can reasonably be expected to cater for. And that the very uniqueness of your case proves this assertion. I also think that they will make the valid point that even if you're not an automotive expert, it is perverse for you to have gone along with your dealer's strategy of 14 consecutive replacements with exactly the same tyre.

A few people on a forum with subjective and unproven views about Pirelli run-flats and a couple of superficial web articles in the same vein won't be enough. Especially if Pirelli/BMW can show their own QA stats that seem to show there's no issue.

Hence my suggestion that you get a set of 7.5Jx17 wheels and more robust tyres and run them for six months without issues, over the same journey pattern. Then you can argue that your dealer should clearly have suggested that in your case, you needed to swap the stock setup for something else and they should compensate for this mistake. I'd judge that this is the fullest extent of any suplier liability and even then, I would think that you'd be lucky to make any progress.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

The problem I see with his posting is not that he is interested in resolving the issue, but rather intent on going after BMW and Pirelli for some reason. If I had 8 flats in a half year i would start examining certain things. Furthermore, there are tire warranties out there, you can have the wheels examined if they are bent or cracked etc.

With the amount of cars out there with runflats and the same wheels you are using, this would have been visible by now. These cars have been out for more than 3 years now.

Having all 4 tires go flat at the same time would not be caused by faulty tires or wheels, because they would fail at different intervals. To me, that screams hit a large pot hole or something in the road that caused it.

Statistically speaking, EVEN if there was a fault with the tires, the likelihood of all 4 kicking the bucket at the same time is very low. But what can flatten all 4 at the same time is running over something. It can a metal lip on a bridge surface, rough terrain etc.

I have had damage done to my non-runflat tires via side wall failure, that was purely running over a pothole. I full on realized exactly when it happened too. The difference with a runflat, is that it will mask the damage more easily, where a non runflat would bubble up, and you would clearly see what has happened, on a runflat, that type of damage might stay hidden, but the internal damage would have been done already.

[XutvJet]

The so-called lawyers posting in here are off their rockers if they think this is anywhere remotely close to class action lawsuit material. LOL. Live in metro NY and drive often and you shouldn't be surprised by lots of destroyed low profile tires and/or wheels. Low profile tires do not live behind hitting sharp vertical objects lIke protruding manholes, tall vertical pavement cuts/heaves, and deep potholes. Good God. I'm no stranger to the area and sure as hell wouldn't pilot an M235 through it. It only takes one strike on a 1.5" tall protruding manhole to destroy a low profile tire. Physics.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by mcwinterr

.....we do it because we want to, we can, and we don't want to drive a shitty beater car. This isn't Kansas City, man, it's the city of cities, and we have to look good...

Simple fact is, the Pirelli runflats that come with a $60k car are absolute shit, and they are the only realistic all season option BMW offers when you purchase a car new. This is unacceptable, and the fact that many others have had the same or similar issue is quite telling...

Because you have to "look good"? Jersey bro, do you even lift? This is the silliest response I've read in quite a while.

NO ONE is holding a gun to your head saying to have to run OEM PirellI tires on this car. You have choices. You and the OP just seem to be making very silly ones, like driving a car in the NY metro on 35 and 40 series tires and expecting them to survive.

[Maynard]

To be fair, OP was seeking info about if this was common - apparently it is not, or he would be mentioning the hundreds of emails he's gotten from other city-dwellers. I'd agree that dealerships in the metro area should be horse-whipped for not pushing better setups, but they must have at lest mentioned the tire-protection package? If blowouts were this common across the fleet, they'd be bankrupt from that by now.

But I have no doubt class actions can be worse than this, having recently seen a story on a class action against Home Depot for selling "2x4's" that are actually 1.5x3.5 (like they have been since the 50's, I think). It's a city of crime...

[mcwinterr]

Yes, it was a silly response, and was meant to be. I should have made it more clear.

And yes, BMW has given us one additional "choice" -- Michelin SS summer tires, good for about half the year at best here in the Northeast. So after a couple of runflat failures, I did switch myself, have had no issues in NYC since, and asked for a reimbursement for the outlay, which I received.

Point is, BMW should offer additional choices at the point of sale, and not need to wait until after the fact for people to change tires themselves and ask for reimbursement. It's just bad business practice. One that has gotten them into legal trouble before. See, e.g. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...suit/index.htm.

I'm not sure how the Torque News article is "fake news"? Maybe in a Trumpian definition of the phrase, but it was an opinion piece (not news), and did provide links to secondary sources. Here's another, albeit older, article about the shittiness of runflats, from the Gray Lady herself: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/au...s/11FLATS.html. Then again, I forgot, the NYT is "fake news" to you guys as well...

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Because you have to "look good"? Jersey bro, do you even lift? This is the silliest response I've read in quite a while.

NO ONE is holding a gun to your head saying to have to run OEM PirellI tires on this car. You have choices. You and the OP just seem to be making very silly ones, like driving a car in the NY metro on 35 and 40 series tires and expecting them to survive.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Originally Posted by mcwinterr

Yes, it was a silly response, and was meant to be. I should have made it more clear.

And yes, BMW has given us one additional "choice" -- Michelin SS summer tires, good for about half the year at best here in the Northeast. So after a couple of runflat failures, I did switch myself, have had no issues in NYC since, and asked for a reimbursement for the outlay, which I received.

Point is, BMW should offer additional choices at the point of sale, and not need to wait until after the fact for people to change tires themselves and ask for reimbursement. It's just bad business practice. One that has gotten them into legal trouble before. See, e.g. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...suit/index.htm.

I'm not sure how the Torque News article is "fake news"? Maybe in a Trumpian definition of the phrase, but it was an opinion piece (not news), and did provide links to secondary sources. Here's another, albeit older, article about the shittiness of runflats, from the Gray Lady herself: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/au...s/11FLATS.html. Then again, I forgot, the NYT is "fake news" to you guys as well...

The amount of litigious BS that occurs stateside is hilarious to me sometimes. People will sue for anything and everything.

The entire bridgestone thing was a giant joke. Look, you are buying a performance car in an area that has crap roads. The car is setup for a particular performance set etc. If they give you higher profile tires, for a more comfy safe drive, people will sue for the performance not being as advertised.

At some point in time you as the consumer might want to take some amount of responsibility for your decisions. If I lived in an area with absolute garbage roads, I would probably get a car BMW offers with more of a comfortable tire option, like a base 3 series etc.

I mean, what if you bought a Ferrari, and then decided to sue Ferrari because their car cannot handle the new jersey roads and is being constantly damaged. You really should have known better. The thing is, you can always swap out different tires if you want. I am pretty sure going up one rung in the tire profile still will fit just fine in the 235i/240.

I would understand if there was some blatant issue here, but this is grasping at straws at best.

[msej449]

Originally Posted by mcwinterr

Yes,

Point is, BMW should offer additional choices at the point of sale, and not need to wait until after the fact

I'm not sure how the Torque News article is "fake news"?

I would completely agree with the point that BMW dealers seem to do very little in terms of profiling of customer needs and then matching of these to a particular model and specification. But I daresay they are on tough targets and have little spare time for this, plus giving advice is fraught with liability issues. Conversely, no dealer should be letting a customer do 14 replacements using exactly the same tyre without the sort of dialogue we've seen on this thread.

I'm probably being careless with the 'fake news' tag. I just get exasperated - when I worked for a tyre manufacturer what I read in the driver reviews bore absolutely no resemblance to the real pros (and cons) of the product. And it still seems to be the case. I don't mean the systematic tyre tests, but the subjective thoughts and rehash of undocumented assertions. No tyre is perfect but many articles are way off the mark, even in terms of what the downsides are, which is a disservice to their readers. It's like a car review saying the M240i is 4 cylinders or that an xDrive is bad in the snow.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by msej449

I would completely agree with the point that BMW dealers seem to do very little in terms of profiling of customer needs and then matching of these to a particular model and specification.

Actually, I think they do this all the time. The dealer thinks, "This customer needs to buy a model and specification out of my existing inventory."

[3.0L]

Perhaps...

[BEM-S4]

Bottom line, none of us are ordering bespoke cars. Nothing will be perfect. Tires not to my liking would be my first choice of something to dislike about a vehicle, easiest thing there is to change and not expensive in the grand scheme of things.