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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum BMW M Performance LSD for M235i, 335i, 435i Arrives. Pricing and technical FAQ inside

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      05-08-2014, 12:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
So this isnt the Mcars limited slip...what should we expect from this lsd since is new???
It's a new product from BMW, but it's just another 2-way LSD. It should give you the same benefits as any other LSD to some extent.

Your car won't have to roast the inside brakes to make up for its ridiculous open diff. You won't have to worry one-tire-fires. You'll be able to get some legitimate sustained oversteer too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
3k large is over the top.

Quaife is my choice !


I highly doubt that
Quaife doesn't make clutch-type LSDs though, do they?
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      05-08-2014, 12:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
3k large is over the top.

Quaife is my choice !


I highly doubt that
Quaife is 2850...not that much difference. Quaife you have to pull the diff, pull the internals and send it out for machining. Or you could pop in a new pumpkin in about 2 hours for $150 more.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=978136
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      05-08-2014, 01:09 PM   #25
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Way too expensive IMO. I have custom 4.10 3 clutch pack Diff with asymmetrical ramping for around 3 grand if I remember correctly
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      05-08-2014, 01:16 PM   #26
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Would this help in the snow?
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      05-08-2014, 01:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
So this isnt the Mcars limited slip...what should we expect from this lsd since is new???
It's a new product from BMW, but it's just another 2-way LSD. It should give you the same benefits as any other LSD to some extent.

Your car won't have to roast the inside brakes to make up for its ridiculous open diff. You won't have to worry one-tire-fires. You'll be able to get some legitimate sustained oversteer too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
3k large is over the top.

Quaife is my choice !


I highly doubt that
Quaife doesn't make clutch-type LSDs though, do they?
No expert but looks like bmw is giving us a noob lsd piece meal
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      05-08-2014, 01:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer4life24
Would this help in the snow?
Yes and no. It'll oversteer much easier, but be more controllable when it does. It will also help with traction from a stop. It makes driving in the snow a lot more fun, too!
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      05-08-2014, 01:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Not a chance.

The stability on your car is not coded for it. There is years of datalogging involved.
It's way simpler than that.
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      05-08-2014, 01:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post

Quaife doesn't make clutch-type LSDs though, do they?
Correct. However they have higher lock percentage (%65 IIRC) compared to this option. OS Giken's clutch type is $3,500-ish and locks up to %100. But one could argue that a clutch type LSD is overkill for a street car.
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      05-08-2014, 01:40 PM   #31
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So what's the differance between this and the one on the F80/82 and F10? I see lockup is only 30% and on the M models its up to 100%. Is that the only differance with this differantial? (no pun intended )
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      05-08-2014, 01:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Correct. However they have higher lock percentage (%65 IIRC) compared to this option. OS Giken's clutch type is $3,500-ish and locks up to %100. But one could argue that a clutch type LSD is overkill for a street car.
A clutch type diff is what BMW used to use when this was a factory option. It is also what M cars used until they went to an electronic variable lock system.

IIRC current M cars dont even use clutches anymore. There is a variable servo operated mechanism that can go from full open to full closed or anywhere inbetween in .001 sec.
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      05-08-2014, 01:53 PM   #33
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$3000!!! Are they out of their fucking minds??
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      05-08-2014, 01:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by F30.M View Post
Is this xDrive compatible?
No
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      05-08-2014, 02:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYAWE60
$3000!!! Are they out of their fucking minds??
Well I already know a dealer selling it for $2.3k so its not too bad
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      05-08-2014, 02:37 PM   #36
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I remember that old euro e36 M3 wear 25% lock and same 25% was optional lock to first e36 models until -95. They work fine, rubber burn well. (both of them)
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      05-08-2014, 02:58 PM   #37
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Can someone please explain the meaning of these locking % being thrown around? Whats the difference between 30% and 100% from behind there wheel in non technical speak?
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      05-08-2014, 03:22 PM   #38
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I think this is the differential found on the Alpina B3
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      05-08-2014, 03:24 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Can someone please explain the meaning of these locking % being thrown around? Whats the difference between 30% and 100% from behind there wheel in non technical speak?
100% lock is like having a welded axle. 30% lock means the diff can send 30% of its power to the wheel with grip.
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      05-08-2014, 04:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Can someone please explain the meaning of these locking % being thrown around? Whats the difference between 30% and 100% from behind there wheel in non technical speak?
100% lock is like having a welded axle. 30% lock means the diff can send 30% of its power to the wheel with grip.
Thank you, but again too technical, how does either of these locking percentages feel from behind the wheel? Is 100% better than 30% and why? I do 3-4 track days a year. Thanks
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      05-08-2014, 04:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Can someone please explain the meaning of these locking % being thrown around? Whats the difference between 30% and 100% from behind there wheel in non technical speak?
On a normal car with an open diff, if one tire slips all of the power is wasted spinning that tire while the other one with grip essentially gets no power. A limited slip differential limits the speed difference between the wheels to ensure some of the power always goes to the wheel with grip.

When you have a "25% LSD", the maximum difference in power received by the rear wheels is 25%. With a 25% diff, one side can receive up to 62.5% of the total torque while the other gets 37.5%. Higher % can be beneficial in certain situations like accelerating hard out of a corner, but higher % also increases understeer in slow corners and increases oversteer in the rain (sounds counter-intuitive but basically you are making it harder for the two rear wheels to spin at different speeds in a corner).

For a street car, I would say 20-40% is ideal. Older BMWs with LSDs like the E36 M3 had 25% lockup so this new one is actually more aggressive. The fact that it only locks 9% on deceleration means that it actually won't cause understeer on corner entry and the 30% acceleration lock is not enough to make it dangerous in slippery conditions.

The current M cars use an electronically-variable lock which allows them to vary lockup as needed. These diffs are incredible but they are much more difficult to retrofit onto a car since they need to tap into wheel speed sensors and probably the car's computer systems to function so obviously BMW didn't want to offer such a complex unit as an upgrade for the standard cars. I personally think the price and ease of installation are perfect for this LSD when you consider that it won't be noisy like some aftermarket diffs, doesn't require service as often as some aftermarket diffs (I don't believe it's truly lifetime, I'd probably replace the oil every 50-100,000 miles), and comes with a warranty.

I avoided using the term "lockup" because some people describe LSDs the opposite way where 100% lockup means there is NO difference in the speed of the two rear wheels or the power applied to each. This is, as someone above said, like having a welded diff and is what drifters use but it would be terrible to drive around with a fully locked diff all the time, the car would be very difficult to turn.

Last edited by Remonster; 05-08-2014 at 05:06 PM..
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      05-08-2014, 05:03 PM   #42
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Doesnt the M235i have the same drive train as the F20 M135i?

I noticed the M135i wasnt listed.
Do you think this will go into the f20 hatch?
Ive been holding off my order until this was available - I will be upset if it doesnt work on the F20 M135i
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      05-08-2014, 05:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Can someone please explain the meaning of these locking % being thrown around? Whats the difference between 30% and 100% from behind there wheel in non technical speak?
On a normal car with an open diff, if one tire slips all of the power is wasted spinning that tire while the other one with grip essentially gets no power. A limited slip differential limits the speed difference between the wheels to ensure some of the power always goes to the wheel with grip.

When you have a "25% LSD", the maximum difference in power received by the rear wheels is 25%. With a 25% diff, one side can receive up to 62.5% of the total torque while the other gets 37.5%. Higher % can be beneficial in certain situations like accelerating hard out of a corner, but higher % also increases understeer in slow corners and increases oversteer in the rain (sounds counter-intuitive but basically you are making it harder for the two rear wheels to spin at different speeds in a corner).

For a street car, I would say 20-40% is ideal. Older BMWs with LSDs like the E36 M3 had 25% lockup so this new one is actually more aggressive. The fact that it only locks 9% on deceleration means that it actually won't cause understeer on corner entry and the 30% acceleration lock is not enough to make it dangerous in slippery conditions.

The current M cars use an electronically-variable lock which allows them to vary lockup as needed. These diffs are incredible but they are much more difficult to retrofit onto a car since they need to tap into wheel speed sensors and probably the car's computer systems to function so obviously BMW didn't want to offer such a complex unit as an upgrade for the standard cars. I personally think the price and ease of installation are perfect for this LSD when you consider that it won't be noisy like some aftermarket diffs, doesn't require service as often as some aftermarket diffs (I don't believe it's truly lifetime, I'd probably replace the oil every 50-100,000 miles), and comes with a warranty.

I avoided using the term "lockup" because some people describe LSDs the opposite way where 100% lockup means there is NO difference in the speed of the two rear wheels or the power applied to each. This is, as someone above said, like having a welded diff and is what drifters use but it would be terrible to drive around with a fully locked diff all the time, the car would be very difficult to turn.
Thank you for a great explanation.

I'm assuming that in your example, 62.5% goes to the wheel with more grip, correct?
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      05-08-2014, 05:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbenny
Doesnt the M235i have the same drive train as the F20 M135i?

I noticed the M135i wasnt listed.
Do you think this will go into the f20 hatch?
Ive been holding off my order until this was available - I will be upset if it doesnt work on the F20 M135i
That's because the US does not have the M135i.
In Europe, the LSD is already listed as a performance option for M135i on BMW website.

So, to answer your question:
Yes, it works and is available for M135i.
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