[Y0tsuya]

Wondering if anyone else is having this issue. I searched far and wide and only found a test drive on edmunds echoing my experience.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/2-series/...owertrain.html

I recently switched from a 2001 330i 5MT to a M235i 6MT. On my old e46 when I stomp on the gas pedal I get an instant neck snap and can feel the engine pulling hard up to the redline. Everything is logical, lower gear pulls harder than higher gear.

On the f22 when I stomp on the pedal there's usually a ~1sec hesitation while the ECU decides what to make of it, even though when I stomp on the pedal it means I want thrust. And it also creates a strange sensation in lower gears where it kinds of meanders along, then in 3 or 4th some light bulb goes off and gives me gobs of thrust. I expect this sort of shenanigans from an AT, not a MT.

The dealer service dept knows about that and suggested I switch to sport+ and turn off DSC. I did that but the hesitation is still there. It's quite baffling.

[5plus2]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

Wondering if anyone else is having this issue. I searched far and wide and only found a test drive on edmunds echoing my experience.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/2-series/...owertrain.html

My M235 is 2014 and I have not noticed this problem at all. The article is very clear that it is NOT turbo lag but engine throttle response. On a different issue, I do not think the stop/go system on my car ever shuts off engine before a complete stop. It is always a complete stop first and then the system engages. The break is however very grabby: does not bite very hard at the first press and then kicks in very forcefully causing an almost jerky stop. I think the author at Edmunds may have confused what is causing the problem.

[Y0tsuya]

I rather like the brake response on mine. Also the shifter feels pretty "crisp" whereas my old 330i felt "rubbery".

I agree, as do the service techs, that the problem lies with the throttle map. It's wonky. Their reasoning is that it's to prevent the drive train from getting torn apart from the torque. But I felt it's sort of nerfed the engine and I find I can't predict what the engine would do when I press the gas pedal this and that way. I can't believe people aren't complaining more about it, especially ones who have driven older BMWs with much more direct throttle response.

[5plus2]

People often complain about the unpredictability of a turbo charged engine. I always thought it is due to the turbo lag and the non-linearity of the turbo boost. But this problem apparently is not related to the turbo in a direct fashion. My M235i is with the dealership for seat leather replacement due to pre-matured wear on the seat bolsters. When I get it back, I will pay more attention to this problem. But I do not recall I experienced it before.

[Y0tsuya]

Well let me know if you do find anything. Dealer is no help, basically saying that's just the way it is. This is the only thing I don't like with this car vs my old one.

[xantdieselx]

My 08' 135i was the same way also 6MT. Personally I think it is some driveline preservation programming behind the scenes. If it's any conciliation my 13' 328i x-drive although it's a 8AT feels the same way at times. Last year at a BMW Driving event I spoke to one of the instructors about it - he said unequivocally it was the DSC that causes it. Try turning DSC all the way off and see how it feels.

[Merc for hire]

I came from an E46 5-speed manual and Yes, I noticed the throttle response lag on the F22 as well.

My e46 had drive-by-cable which was as responsive as it could possibility get. I sure miss that feeling. It made rapid downshift rev-matching a breeze.

[Transfer]

This is nothing new in BMWs after E46, specifically the turbo'd models. You're used to the naturally aspirated GO and for some reason they changed calibrations that include some tip-in delay on later cars. I traded my wife's X1 28i in for my M235i and that X1 had the absolute worst throttle delay. It was downright dangerous. I do notice it just a smidge with my 235 (8sp auto) but it doesn't bother me other than I can't really burn rubber from a standstill unless I try out launch mode. It is interesting to me that you have a 6MT and are feeling this issue though.

Honestly the throttle off the line is pretty good on this car compared to other bimmers and even other brands (Golf R I'm looking at you). I also did the ultimate drive event and smashed the throttles in sport mode on a 428i and a 328d. Both of them had severe severe delay. On one instance from a stop the instructor was like, "floor it!" and I said "I did!!" We laughed at the absurdity of the delay but it was pretty lame. I'm just glad my 235i is nowhere even close to as bad as some of these cars.

[delvec03]

Ehh...I'm going to partially disagree. granted, I haven't spoken to any engine or throttle response gurus....but...

I believe the lag IS turbo lag. why? when going WOT at low rpm (1.5-2k) there is the mentioned 1 sec delay. At higher rpms (3.5-4.5k) there is no lag.

if the issue was throttle mapping it would be present at all engine rpm ranges, no?

[nike001]

If you want to see how linear our engines are, go drive an STi. Those things are a freaking dog under 3,000 RPM. Be prepared to hold on at 3,000+ though because that turbo really kicks in.

Playing devils advocate a little, I think everyone here is a bit spoiled with BMW.. especially since it seems most of us came from E46s (myself included; we also did EXACTLY what BMW wanted us do with the F22). We're all used to the insanely linear power delivery with basically zero turbo lag compared to the competition.

Originally Posted by delvec03

Ehh...I'm going to partially disagree. granted, I haven't spoken to any engine or throttle response gurus....but...

I believe the lag IS turbo lag. why? when going WOT at low rpm (1.5-2k) there is the mentioned 1 sec delay. At higher rpms (3.5-4.5k) there is no lag.

if the issue was throttle mapping it would be present at all engine rpm ranges, no?

I'm not sure who/what you're responding to but given the car is revving at 3,500+ rpm means it's spinning at 3,500+ revolutions which is absolutely plenty revs to get our tiny turbos spooling even with very little throttle. The engine spinning at 1,500+ isn't moving as much air at all compared to 3,500+

[moldcad]

I dare say all turbo BMW models have the throttle response (lag, tip, tip-in - those are names used at nauseum in so many threads on the F10 board of the other forum) problem - and even if some people claimed it went away after software upgrade, it never did in my 528xi. It is also present in my current M235i (and on my R, for that matter) - but I just learned how to live with it:

- when moving from a stand-still, or just accelerating moderately from cruising at speed of up to some 80 km/h, never - and I mean it: NEVER - floor the pedal all the way in an instant to WOT; otherwise the problem with rear its ugly head more often than not. Instead, stomp on it firmly but somewhat gradually; no more 1-2 seconds of the engine doing nothing!

Try it out. Of course, in Sport mode the rpm never drops below ca 2000, so the throttle is much less prone of behaving on me like this - but it can happen, too. So I extended this gradual throttle opening technique onto higher revs, too - this way it already became my second nature, and I don't perceive it as a problem any more...

The logic is that - when you want to accelerate really aggressively and time matters (like when you want to avoid a potential collision with oncoming vehicle) - the time you lose by not flooring the pedal instantly is way shorter than what it might otherwise, when after flooring it and the engine actually reacting, you might have to wait even 2-3 seconds!

[5plus2]

Originally Posted by moldcad

- when moving from a stand-still, or just accelerating moderately from cruising at speed of up to some 80 km/h, never - and I mean it: NEVER - floor the pedal all the way in an instant to WOT; otherwise the problem with rear its ugly head more often than not. Instead, stomp on it firmly but somewhat gradually; no more 1-2 seconds of the engine doing nothing!

Agree! Never floor the gas on turbo-charged BMWs. I am driving a 328d loaner that has even worse throttle delay. In an analogy, if you floor the gas, it feels as if you are in the ECO PRO mode when you are actually in Comfort mode. Firmly stomp on the gas with quick, gradual, deep press can avoid the delay largely. Do not floor it.

[wjones14]

Agree, turbo lag or caused by the ECU, there's definitely the slightest lag. On my M235i I'd say it's half a second or less. My previous car, a 2005 Mustang GT was also drive-by-wire, but that throttle response was instant in comparison. The throttle response between the two cars is a night and day difference.

[brocklanders]

My 2011 335 manual had this, very annoying, now I have a dct 135 and it does the same thing. I personally believe it's a perfect storm of drive by wire and the traction control, because its not so bad in sport mode with traction off. I started doing auto cross for fun and rode with an instructor, when exiting a corner he would yell throttle, throttle, but I was already on it. It is terribly annoying when trying to exit a turn at speed. If the e46 were a turbo motor I would have one. I'd leave these newer cars for the tech geeks.

[1LegitM235i]

Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment...
Can I ask what driving mode you are in during you comparison test? I say this because, you may have to factor in the driving mode.

How well do you drive a manual? I've had many folks who tells me they can drive a manual and find out later they burn through their clutch before hitting 50k miles.

I tested your concern today during a long drive and I couldn't capture the issue you had. My previous 540i was very similar to throttle response to my M235i and it's very close to the torque power.

I'm sorry but, I don't think your 01' 330i is a good throttle comparison to the M235i IMO. 215 lbs of torque does not come close to the M235's 330 lbs of torque. Instant neck snap is very hard to believe...real time throttle response, maybe.

Maybe it's the drive by wire or turbo lag or maybe even the gearing (5MT vs 6MT), but I know one thing for sure about the M235, it is a character of its own and you cannot compare it to its predecessors. Just like you cannot compare the E46 to the E36 BMWs.

[Xiaoxi]

I did the free Ultimate Driving Experience autocross event and the instructor specifically mentioned something along the lines of "there are some people who complain about turbo lag in these cars. It's not turbo lag... the DSC is saving you from eating your mistakes"

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

I'm sorry but, I don't think your 01' 330i is a good throttle comparison to the M235i IMO. 215 lbs of torque does not come close to the M235's 330 lbs of torque. Instant neck snap is very hard to believe...real time throttle response, maybe.

I'm also coming from the E46 330i and I can tell you that with the SMG box, it was capable of neck snaps up to the 4th gear (the SMG was crappy otherwise)

Originally Posted by Xiaoxi

I did the free Ultimate Driving Experience autocross event and the instructor specifically mentioned something along the lines of "there are some people who complain about turbo lag in these cars. It's not turbo lag... the DSC is saving you from eating your mistakes"

Can't agree - even with DSC off completely, flooring it at stand-still will sometimes make it think for a long time before catapulting. This is much less frequent/pronounced in my M235i than it was in my 528xi, but still... It's definitely NOT a DSC thing!

[BMW335iOn18s]

I think this is due to the really soft engine/transmission mounts.

[moldcad]

Pardon me?

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment...
Can I ask what driving mode you are in during you comparison test? I say this because, you may have to factor in the driving mode.

I think in the OP I mentioned driving modes and turning off DSC.

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

How well do you drive a manual? I've had many folks who tells me they can drive a manual and find out later they burn through their clutch before hitting 50k miles.

Well enough to meet your standards I hope. I've been driving it for 15 years (1st owner of the 2001 330i) and is still on the original clutch when I donated it on Thursday at 190K miles.

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

I tested your concern today during a long drive and I couldn't capture the issue you had. My previous 540i was very similar to throttle response to my M235i and it's very close to the torque power.

Which leads me to wonder why some people felt it and some didn't. Maybe some motors are wonky and others aren't? I've read car rag reviews that swear up and down there's little to no turbo lag in the M235i MT. It's hard to believe they're talking about the same car.

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

I'm sorry but, I don't think your 01' 330i is a good throttle comparison to the M235i IMO. 215 lbs of torque does not come close to the M235's 330 lbs of torque. Instant neck snap is very hard to believe...real time throttle response, maybe.

No the neck snap is very real and pronounced. Even the dealership guys who've seen models come and go agree with me.

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

I know one thing for sure about the M235, it is a character of its own and you cannot compare it to its predecessors. Just like you cannot compare the E46 to the E36 BMWs.

I can and I will. If BMW intends this to be the car that gets E46 owners to switch over, they better make damn sure it's better in every way.

[1LegitM235i]

Y0tsuya, the F22 is better than the E46 in almost every way. You bought the car didn't you? FYI, I am an E46 owner. BMW doesn't care if you drive an E46 or any other BMW. They're selling the M235i because they have a great product that driver enthusiasts love. Just my two cents...enjoy the car!

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

Y0tsuya, the F22 is better than the E46 in almost every way

I did say this is the only thing I don't like about this car. But it's a biggie. I opened the topic to see if others are experiencing the same, and whether it can be fixed.

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

You bought the car didn't you?

I bought it because I got tired of fixing my 330i with 190K on the odometer. This is one of the closest replacements I can find. I wish there was a MT M235i available for me to test drive at the local dealership but I have a better chance in seeing a unicorn. Though to be honest I probably would have bought the car anyway.

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

BMW doesn't care if you drive an E46 or any other BMW.

Well word is BMW does care, a whole lot: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

Or maybe they lied the same way they lied about the throttle having little to no lag.

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

enjoy the car!

I'd enjoy it more with no lag.