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      03-21-2014, 02:02 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shatty
You guys keep knocking the STI. You say that it rattles? Has anyone driven the '15? So you're speculating. Which out of the 3 is more practical? Can you drive the 235i with 3 inches of snow on the ground? I dont think so. I had a 135i cab and the thing didnt move with 1 inch of snow on the ground. I actually ordered the STi the day after Valentines Day and expecting it end of April.. Did not get the Launch Edition with gold wheels cause its tacky. Got the white limited with smoked wheels. I actually had a WRX before the 135 and I wanted a BMW because of the quality. Hands down quality is superb compared to the Subaru. But the STi is just more practical especially in NY. The BMW just took all bumps hard. I don't know how they even did this comparison. The STi is not even in the same league. Its below. Its a rally machine, not luxury.
I drove just fine this brutal north jersey winter in my rwd bmw. You talk about practicality, learn a rwd car in the winter and you'll realize it helped you become a better driver. That's practicality for me enough. You drive cars like these to enjoy them. Enjoy learning how to drive in the snow. At the very least get some good winter all seasons.
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      03-21-2014, 02:36 AM   #68
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This comparison from the german magazine "Autobild" is a little more telling: the Porsche Cayman S VS the M235i, and the Porsche won by... 2 points!



Translation excerpts (sorry if not exact...):

How much Porsche is the BMW?

The Cayman in our opinion maintains the Classic Porsche virtues: compact, lightweight and with the potent boxer engine from the 911. The 3.4-liter six-cylinder delivers 325 hp, and 370 Nm at 4500 rpm. The PDK seven-speed
Dual-clutch transmission is available for 2826 euros and adaptive dampers
for 1428 euros.

Does BMW even has a chance to win against it? The bavarian manufacturer (almost) pulled out all the stops with the new 2-series. The coupe version of the 1's Series has a likeable size and looks dazzling. It reminds you of the 02 Series from the 70's. And for the M235i, the top model of the range, BMW has sharpened the looks even more. Its 3-liter inline six-cylinder engine produces 326 bhp and 450 Nm at a low at 1300 Rpm. Transmission is the splendid eight-speed Sport Automatic made by ZF (2250 euros option), and the car has 18-inch wheels, sport-steering and brakes. Options are the adaptive suspension (760 Euro) and limited-slip differential (2890 euros, installation about 235 Euros). The M235i is comes to the competition prepared. And it shots like a catapult: with Launch Control (race-start function) it tears smoothly in 5 seconds from 0-100-km/h, slightly above the factory specification of 4.8 seconds. The double-scroll turbocharged Three liters pushes early and powerfully then turns wild... but always maintaining the classic in-line six cylinder howl. The eight-speed automatic reacts incredibly quickly, especially on Sport or Sport +. This engine and this gearbox, we can not write it often enough, are one of the best drive packages ever.

But then the Cayman S does the same feat in 4.6 seconds to 100 (also with Launch Control). The free-breathing 3.4-liter boxer needs higher Rpm's to deliver its power, but turns even wilder than the BMW, with amazing response. The engine sounds harder and more metallic than the 2 series, and makes the car much more alert. The seven-speed PDK reacts extremely quickly and in sports and Sport Plus mode, even increase the shifts speeds to lightning fast. Lovely, too, is the throttle blip when downshifting. On the dry handling course, a demanding, 3800 meter track, the Porsche sets a time of 1:34,23 minutes, which is only slower than the best 10 cars ever measured there. The car moves, especially in sport plus mode, as if it has sharpened senses, responsive and snappy. The steering obeys the smallest imputs and the Cayman turns sharply. One striking characteristic: the excellent traction in any situation. Of course, the mid-engine layout puts more weight on the driven rear axle. The axle load distribution is at 44:56. The BMW with its front-engine, has a F/R ratio of 52:48 and cannot put its power on the asphalt quite as well. It laps the track in 1:36,53 minutes - more than two seconds slower than the Porsche.

To avoid any misunderstanding, the BMW has a fine handling, a finely tuned steering and sensitively tuned ESP. It is only it is not as focused as the Porsche. And it weighs 1559 kilos: 130 more than the Cayman (1429 kilos). On the other hand, the BMW can carry 2 more passengers , which is impossible with the Porsche.

This Cayman S test car with optional equipments (amongst others, Sport Chrono Package at 2023 Euro, locking rear differential at 1309 Euro, 20-inch wheels at 1428 euros) costs 73,394 euros. A difference of more than 23,000 euros versus the BMW (49,650 euros), which is the price of a hot hatch!

Conclusion:
The Cayman S has the classic virtues of the Porsche brand: low weight, snappy engines and agile handling. And just because the Cayman S shows the M235i its limits, it's still one razor-sharp compact coupe. The Porsche is simply a flawless athlete.
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      03-21-2014, 02:38 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_Will View Post
STI might lack in the refinement department but it's a lot of fun to drive and sounds very unique.

You always know it's a Boxer motor coming down the road with that Rollin thunder sound!
That is, until Subaru gets around to putting the 2L DI motor into the STi with EL headers. At which point it sounds like a Honda. This is basically an iteration on the 2011 STi. Obviously they can't get to 300+ HP safely on the new motor yet, so they offer up the same car with new body panels, some yesterday technology, and slightly stiffer bushings.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my STi. It's very easy to drive as there is almost no danger of oversteer and has a ton of mechanical grip. It has great brakes, a bulletproof gearbox, is very cheap to own, and hold their value if you live somewhere where they have actual seasons. But at it's core it's mostly unchanged from 2006! I mean, for racing between stoplights on your way to work, a 420HP 2015 Mustang GT is mighty tempting for the same money. The bang for buck argument kind of collapses for Subaru there unless you MUST have AWD.

For now the EJ lives on in my wife's Forester 2.5XT Touring where it belongs. A nearly perfect car for what it's designed for. I'll wait and see what Subaru does to redeem it's motorsport heritage, but the "new" STi is not it in my opinion.
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      03-21-2014, 02:45 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX1er
STi is a 30K drivetrain in a 35K rattlebox. No doubt it's a fun ride and the AWD system is legit. But the EJ motor is a overtuned 4 banger with glass pistons. That car is perilously close to its max potential right out if the box. Suby fans can only dream of 30-60 bhp from just a piggyback tune. Plus, you look like like an ass with your gold wheels and park bench on the trunk. The fact that these cars are relatively small and turbo charged is pretty much the only thing they have in common.
Gold wheels.. So true
The Gold and Blue is classic STI,I would love to know what makes Gold BBS tacky!
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      03-21-2014, 04:26 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
Part of that article rings so true. The STI doesn't have a bigger brother to play coy for. At its price point, the M235i really should have LSD standard, but BMW plays it down to keep the die-hards with enough cash in the more expensive cars. Subaru has the STI, the car either speaks to you with its performance or it doesn't. For many it does and they save quite a bit in the process without sacrificing fun factor and performance.
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      03-21-2014, 04:27 AM   #72
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Why is an oil gauge (or lack thereof) significant to the M235i? What's the big deal if it doesn't have one?
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      03-21-2014, 05:00 AM   #73
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Why this STi look similar to the front of the Lancer Evo X?
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      03-21-2014, 06:23 AM   #74
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nice! M235 is a fantastic car!
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      03-21-2014, 06:31 AM   #75
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Is anybody really cross shopping these cars? I thought Audi RS3 was more direct comp for the CLA45 amg? Wouldn't we need a real M2?
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      03-21-2014, 07:19 AM   #76
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Say hello to the new (old) 3 series, again. The M2 is going to be a monster.
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      03-21-2014, 07:33 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i View Post
Why is an oil gauge (or lack thereof) significant to the M235i? What's the big deal if it doesn't have one?
Because it is a car aimed at pleasing diehard enthusiasts (that's one of its purposes, at least).

Diehard enthusiasts like to track their cars.

Monitoring things like oil and coolant temperature are important at the track. Especially in N54 and N55-equipped cars. These cars have had a history of running hot (especially at the track) and if the oil temperature gets too toasty, these cars go into limp mode.

At least if you can measure/gauge the oil temperature while on the track, you can start to back off for a bit and let the oil cooler do its job without having to shut the car down for a while.

Never mind that most of us like to monitor our oil temperatures on a daily driving basis so we know when the car is warmed up (and thus, we can know when we can start to trash it).

All of my 335i sedans had an oil temperature gauge (both E90 and F30) and my C63 has a dedicated menu where I can track all vital fluid temperatures. On a performance-oriented car, having those temperature readouts somewhere is imperative, IMHO.
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      03-21-2014, 07:44 AM   #78
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What an odd comparison. I've owned three STIs and yes while I'm sacrificing a little performance going to the M235, there's nothing I'll miss about my STIs outside of the power.
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      03-21-2014, 08:13 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scutts View Post
Nice. Its good to see STI stepping up the game.
You mean tweaking the interior and sheet metal? That's pretty much all they've done of any significance since 04.
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      03-21-2014, 08:20 AM   #80
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Oh that is crazy abt the oil temp gauge. I have it in my f30, would def expect it in an m performance vehicle.
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      03-21-2014, 08:29 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Because it is a car aimed at pleasing diehard enthusiasts (that's one of its purposes, at least).

Diehard enthusiasts like to track their cars.

Monitoring things like oil and coolant temperature are important at the track. Especially in N54 and N55-equipped cars. These cars have had a history of running hot (especially at the track) and if the oil temperature gets too toasty, these cars go into limp mode.

At least if you can measure/gauge the oil temperature while on the track, you can start to back off for a bit and let the oil cooler do its job without having to shut the car down for a while.

Never mind that most of us like to monitor our oil temperatures on a daily driving basis so we know when the car is warmed up (and thus, we can know when we can start to trash it).

All of my 335i sedans had an oil temperature gauge (both E90 and F30) and my C63 has a dedicated menu where I can track all vital fluid temperatures. On a performance-oriented car, having those temperature readouts somewhere is imperative, IMHO.

Perfect. Thanks for the detailed explanation. That makes sense now.
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      03-21-2014, 08:57 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z8chP View Post
I drove just fine this brutal north jersey winter in my rwd bmw. You talk about practicality, learn a rwd car in the winter and you'll realize it helped you become a better driver. That's practicality for me enough. You drive cars like these to enjoy them. Enjoy learning how to drive in the snow. At the very least get some good winter all seasons.
I second that. I did just fine in my M3 and I left my summer tires on. Improving driving skills is the best "mod" you can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_Will View Post
The Gold and Blue is classic STI,I would love to know what makes Gold BBS tacky!
I think he was insinuating that gold wheels in general are tacky. Not saying the blue paint with the gold BBS wheels directly are...
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      03-21-2014, 09:07 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_Will View Post
The Gold and Blue is classic STI,I would love to know what makes Gold BBS tacky!
Classic STI is one thing, good taste is another.
Old or new, it is one vomit combination.
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      03-21-2014, 09:22 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z8chP View Post
I drove just fine this brutal north jersey winter in my rwd bmw. You talk about practicality, learn a rwd car in the winter and you'll realize it helped you become a better driver. That's practicality for me enough. You drive cars like these to enjoy them. Enjoy learning how to drive in the snow. At the very least get some good winter all seasons.
The cars dont move with snow on the ground! You cant even get to 10 MPH. My neighbor has a new M6 and I had to help him twice get out of his driveway with an inch of slush!

Helped you become a better driver? Thats just stupidity. Let me try to become a better driver while bouncing off cars on both sides of the street, let alone getting out of a parking spot.
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      03-21-2014, 09:25 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shatty View Post
The cars dont move with snow on the ground! You cant even get to 10 MPH. My neighbor has a new M6 and I had to help him twice get out of his driveway with an inch of slush!

Helped you become a better driver? Thats just stupidity. Let me try to become a better driver while bouncing off cars on both sides of the street, let alone getting out of a parking spot.

I guarantee you your neighbor's M6 was running on summer tires. Of course you can't go anywhere in those when the weather is bad. Obviously you need suitable tires. I think that part was implied.

I'm not chiming in on the better driver or not part. I'm just refuting the part that you can't get out of a driveway with slush or bouncing off cars as you said. I run on summer tires in the winter and am pretty much disabled when the weather turns bad. But, I know if I had some all seasons I'd do much better and if I had snow tires I could be unstoppable in any kind of winter weather.
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      03-21-2014, 09:55 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan
Quote:
Originally Posted by scutts View Post
Nice. Its good to see STI stepping up the game.
You mean tweaking the interior and sheet metal? That's pretty much all they've done of any significance since 04.
You consider new chassis as tweaking interior and sheet? Yeah it's disappointing that the drivetrain didn't change but Subaru isn't BMW. Also, GR has been irrelevant in the performance category for a while, when GD was considered E46 M3 rival. So yes. I think STi stepped up being compared to more powerful 2 series and baby AMG, coming out as a winner. Besides, I don't really even like the look of the new STi (nor 235, CLA). Strictly performance and bang for the buck. Did I say STi is relevant again?
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      03-21-2014, 09:57 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by five3three
Quote:
Originally Posted by shatty View Post
The cars dont move with snow on the ground! You cant even get to 10 MPH. My neighbor has a new M6 and I had to help him twice get out of his driveway with an inch of slush!

Helped you become a better driver? Thats just stupidity. Let me try to become a better driver while bouncing off cars on both sides of the street, let alone getting out of a parking spot.

I guarantee you your neighbor's M6 was running on summer tires. Of course you can't go anywhere in those when the weather is bad. Obviously you need suitable tires. I think that part was implied.

I'm not chiming in on the better driver or not part. I'm just refuting the part that you can't get out of a driveway with slush or bouncing off cars as you said. I run on summer tires in the winter and am pretty much disabled when the weather turns bad. But, I know if I had some all seasons I'd do much better and if I had snow tires I could be unstoppable in any kind of winter weather.
Well. In NYC, M3 with winters here. Winter sucked and I got stuck few times. It's ignorant to say that AWD does not have an obvious advantage in winter driving.
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      03-21-2014, 10:05 AM   #88
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Been a fan of the STI( for what it is) for a long time and have driven every year of them and almost bought one...But for the life of me i could NEVER find the courage to put the deposit down as there was alway's something making me gage...In every case, except the hatch, the bizarre, enormous, funny, obnoxious wing has turned me WAY off...Just like the stripes on a Boss 302,,,Then after test driving it every year and getting back into my 135i i am so happy that the BMW was far nicer interior and the engine and the whole package...The STI is a nice car but way to boy racer for me and the wing is just......and the interior and all the models has been very week....not sure about rattles as i only owned a wagon years ago and sold it after 3 months as i felt the suspension was dangerous with bikes on the back..Yea, and gold wheels....not my style either.
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