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      09-04-2016, 06:03 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by bimmerfile View Post
Did you mean to say that your 2er steering feels light (rather than "loose")?
That I can agree with. My previous bimmers had hydraulic steering, which did have a bit of a heavier feel - although not quite as sharp.
Ok maybe "light" is a better word. But my last car was a activehybrid3 msport with the electronic steering and that felt much more firm in "comfort". Anyway I dislike the M235i's light steering feel while turning at speed.
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      09-04-2016, 08:36 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topdown240
Why?

For those who bagged after 5 minutes, fine, but the last 5 or 6 are the point of the comparison. Starting in first gear th M2 got off faster, but in all the rolling start scenarios the 240 was as fast or faster. That was the point. Yes there are other significant differences between the cars, but my take away is the the B58 is a beast.
Glad I didn't waste my time with the last 38 minutes as I have already read another thread that talks about and had the figures on gearing for the m235 and the M2.

Top speed in 4th gear for M235 was like 134 vs 125 for the M2. M2 needed to be short shifted to 5th rather than wound out. Some time with a gearing calculator probably would be easy to determine when to up shift from 4th best would really help the M2
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      09-04-2016, 09:32 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
I think the suspension feel is really a preference, some will welcome the stiff ride of the M2 and some will not, of course the big point is that there is no mode choice on the M2, so you'd better like it.

Of course it is a preference. I would prefer something more moderate than full race.

I was walking down a street in Austin today and someone drove by in a Camaro SS. The exhaust note was so awesome, like in a completely different world from turbo anythings, even with high buck aftermarket exhaust systems.
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      09-05-2016, 12:37 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
You mean any automatic or me ? I see your point. That is why there is a choice on transmissions.
Not the transmission, the video.
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      09-05-2016, 06:28 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by E-Brake_85 View Post
Here you go kids..

There should be a synced timer in both cars. The time should be absolutely identical then you guys can say like go when the clock hits 25 with the 3 numbers after the second for good synchronized comparison.

We used to do that all the time in LFS when it was the only PC racing game to play. There was a game elapsed time that keeps going and we just follow it. I think at GT5 we did the same thing. Like, the clock is going but then people don't go at 00 so we wait until say 15 or if we don't feel like waiting too long for 30 we go on 25.

The 3 beep thing is very inaccurate also when people do the random flash thing on the cell phone at night or a hands dropping flash thing this isn't accurate. It would be easier to see like 05.100, 05.200, etc. then like 09.900 then go!

The lack of a synchronized clock system was the reason for all these inferior methods of the past. I think the Apple watch has the same sync and/or any Modern smartwatch has the same syncronized time thing so that could be connected to a huge app on a tablet or something w/ peripheral bluetooth support so it could be seen huge.

We just need accurate comparisons. When people get a sleight jump in a drag it's hard to compare this way.
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      09-07-2016, 01:48 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by RotorOver View Post
Just test drove an M240i today in ATL, the mirrors fold in the US version as well.
Thank you! Now I wish they had Blind spot monitoring- but not a deal breaker of course-
And what were your impressions of the car?
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      09-07-2016, 09:21 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Diver View Post
The M2 may be more engaging when driven hard, but how often do you drive hard? It's fun to post about all sorts of stuff, but most of us never go to the track. We spend our time driving over poorly maintained roads. I want a car with a track tuned suspension for real world driving. If one can afford to keep it as a track toy, there are other cars that are even better track toys. The M2 is 3" wider making it a very wide car for one with a smallish interior. For those of us who drive automatics because we get stuck in traffic a lot, I can tell you the 8 speed is a great one. It shifts nearly as fast as a DCT and without all the weirdness of a DCT. Is an M240i my next ride, perhaps. It's roughly the same price as a loaded Camaro 2SS which has an insane Corvette V8 so I wonder...
Not to jack this thread but no question, I would be driving a 6th gen 2SS or a 1LE SS instead if my 2 children (7 & 11 yr olds) could actually fit in the back seats occasionally. I'd take that small block + Mag suspension + 6spd on an Alpha platform all day, every day over my M235. Visibility issues are really overblown and the interior/build quality is more than acceptable.

IMO, the only things that I prefer on my 2 over the Camaro is overall size, passenger/trunk space, visibility and build quality - in that order. From the steering feel, power, sound, handling, ride quality and responsiveness, the Camaro is so much more of an analog, visceral driving experience. Once you get over any stigma issues (unfortunately something my wife couldn't get her head around), it's an unbelievable package for $42k loaded - including an awesome HUD, vent seats, blind side/rear cross traffic, apple car play, etc..
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      09-07-2016, 11:06 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by GrayM235 View Post
Not to jack this thread but no question, I would be driving a 6th gen 2SS or a 1LE SS instead if my 2 children (7 & 11 yr olds) could actually fit in the back seats occasionally....

IMO, the only things that I prefer on my 2 over the Camaro is overall size, passenger/trunk space, visibility and build quality - in that order.
Is the 2er back seat significantly bigger than what is found in a Camaro? My 1'er has a tiny back seat, mainly suitable for kids in forward facing child seats.
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      09-07-2016, 11:43 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Is the 2er back seat significantly bigger than what is found in a Camaro? My 1'er has a tiny back seat, mainly suitable for kids in forward facing child seats.
Yes. I'm 6' 2" and if my wife (5' 8") is driving the car, I can fit behind her seat in relative comfort and without my legs splayed out or my head tilted. I have an 11 y/o son and 7 y/o daughter and they have no issues riding in the back seat. The 2 series has about 2" more legroom than you 1 series and WAY more leg room and human space that any year Camaro.
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      09-07-2016, 11:51 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by GrayM235 View Post
Not to jack this thread but no question, I would be driving a 6th gen 2SS or a 1LE SS instead if my 2 children (7 & 11 yr olds) could actually fit in the back seats occasionally. I'd take that small block + Mag suspension + 6spd on an Alpha platform all day, every day over my M235. Visibility issues are really overblown and the interior/build quality is more than acceptable.

IMO, the only things that I prefer on my 2 over the Camaro is overall size, passenger/trunk space, visibility and build quality - in that order. From the steering feel, power, sound, handling, ride quality and responsiveness, the Camaro is so much more of an analog, visceral driving experience. Once you get over any stigma issues (unfortunately something my wife couldn't get her head around), it's an unbelievable package for $42k loaded - including an awesome HUD, vent seats, blind side/rear cross traffic, apple car play, etc..
Problem is, like you said, it's a Camaro and it has a stigma. The visibility IS NOT over-blown. I've had many 5th gen Camaro rentals and visibility is by far the worst I've ever experienced in a passenger car. It's just terrible.

The Camaro's biggest issue for me is the styling. It's totally gold chain, chest hair, and "Hey look at me, I'm so PISSED. Bro, do you even lift!!!". The same goes for the Corvette C7. Absolutely terrible styling excitation by GM both cars look dated the moment they came out and it's why Camaro sales are very poor now. There is so much wasted space on the Camaro as well. If GM could have dialed the styling from an 11 down to an 8, made it cleaner, and more euro in appearance, they'd have a hit on their hands. But they didn't. GM can't let the over the top styling, tacked on 1980s spoilers, chrome wheels, and race stripes go. The current gen Mustang, though also overly big, is a far better looking and better executed car, IMO. I firmly believe GM will be issuing an emergency restyle for the Camaro in the very near future like they did from the Malibu.
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      09-07-2016, 12:23 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Is the 2er back seat significantly bigger than what is found in a Camaro? My 1'er has a tiny back seat, mainly suitable for kids in forward facing child seats.
No, just a couple of precious inches in leg/headroom in my estimation... but in the Camaro, my wife (5'4") could *barely* fit behind my driving position (I'm 6'1") but her feet were tucked under the drivers seat, knees pressed against seat back. She felt claustrophobic. The deal breaker was because my 7 yr old's feet dangle above the floor, she had to bend her feet pretty far inward or outward to fit behind me - even when I moved the driver seat as far forward as I could drive safely. No such issues with the 2. Although I would not put any adults in back seat of either car, its much more tolerable in the 2 and I can actually take my family on a road trip if needed.

Also the trunk opening is shockingly small.
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      09-07-2016, 01:00 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Problem is, like you said, it's a Camaro and it has a stigma. The visibility IS NOT over-blown. I've had many 5th gen Camaro rentals and visibility is by far the worst I've ever experienced in a passenger car. It's just terrible.

The Camaro's biggest issue for me is the styling. It's totally gold chain, chest hair, and "Hey look at me, I'm so PISSED. Bro, do you even lift!!!". The same goes for the Corvette C7. Absolutely terrible styling excitation by GM both cars look dated the moment they came out and it's why Camaro sales are very poor now. There is so much wasted space on the Camaro as well. If GM could have dialed the styling from an 11 down to an 8, made it cleaner, and more euro in appearance, they'd have a hit on their hands. But they didn't. GM can't let the over the top styling, tacked on 1980s spoilers, chrome wheels, and race stripes go. The current gen Mustang, though also overly big, is a far better looking and better executed car, IMO. I firmly believe GM will be issuing an emergency restyle for the Camaro in the very near future like they did from the Malibu.
All subjective but only the spoiler ruins an otherwise a very sharp looking car, IMO. Agree, it's a relatively big car with a surprisingly small cabin. I actually liked the wrapped in tank cockpit feel and got used to the visibility very quickly in the many extended test drives I took. Blind spot, rear x-traffic and back up camera certainly helps, if not mandatory.

I'm shocked myself for even considering one at all, its the first domestic car I've ever even considered. Frankly, all of these negatives melt away once you drive it. Its driving dynamics with that sweet LT1 had me grinning ear to ear every time - I wanted one, stigma be damned. If you're cross shopping coupes, its certainly worth a few test drives...
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      09-07-2016, 01:42 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayM235 View Post
No, just a couple of precious inches in leg/headroom in my estimation... but in the Camaro, my wife (5'4") could *barely* fit behind my driving position (I'm 6'1") but her feet were tucked under the drivers seat, knees pressed against seat back. She felt claustrophobic. The deal breaker was because my 7 yr old's feet dangle above the floor, she had to bend her feet pretty far inward or outward to fit behind me - even when I moved the driver seat as far forward as I could drive safely. No such issues with the 2. Although I would not put any adults in back seat of either car, its much more tolerable in the 2 and I can actually take my family on a road trip if needed.

Also the trunk opening is shockingly small.
7 year old children are in child seats in Texas. They can get in a regular seat at 8 if they weigh enough.
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      09-07-2016, 01:53 PM   #102
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Yep, she's in a booster.
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      09-07-2016, 08:02 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilberGrau ZHP View Post
Thank you! Now I wish they had Blind spot monitoring- but not a deal breaker of course-
And what were your impressions of the car?
It was a typical short loop, maybe 10-15 minutes behind the wheel, but I enjoyed it. I thought it had a pretty quick throttle response even at low revs and especially in Sport mode. The gearbox was super smooth and responsive. I think the steering feel is good, not much difference in feel from my IS300, which is comparatively heavy at low speeds, as expected. Brakes felt good as well.

Overall, it was a sufficient enough experience to convince me I didn't need to wait out an M2 considering I will most likely do very little to no track time in the car and my commute sucks, so probably more friendly as a DD. And, $10k cheaper after negotiating a below invoice deal where the M2 would go most likely at MSRP at best. The dealer found an MG with 90% of the options I wanted about 5 hours away, so I should get the car by early next week at the latest. I'm pretty stoked!
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      09-07-2016, 09:55 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Yes. I'm 6' 2" and if my wife (5' 8") is driving the car, I can fit behind her seat in relative comfort and without my legs splayed out or my head tilted. I have an 11 y/o son and 7 y/o daughter and they have no issues riding in the back seat. The 2 series has about 2" more legroom than you 1 series and WAY more leg room and human space that any year Camaro.
You guys are tall. I can understand why 2" is a lot. (My kids are in their 30's, but I have occasional back seat passengers, and grandsons.)
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      09-08-2016, 12:00 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by ZilberGrau ZHP View Post
The Euros get an M mirror on the M2 and folding mirrors on the M240
Are there no folding mirrors on the M240 in the U.S.? That's news to me...
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      09-08-2016, 01:15 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
We've already known for some time what the B58 puts down to the wheels due to the 340i. We've also known for some time what the N55B30T0 puts down for the M2. Guess what? They are about the same for peak HP. That is, they are both around 330-335whp. So there should not be any surprise with what these street races are showing.

What *would* be surprising is if BMW improved the handling of the M240i over the M235i.
And it wouldn't take much- not to match the M2 but to out some nicer bits in it over the 235
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      09-08-2016, 01:26 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorOver View Post
It was a typical short loop, maybe 10-15 minutes behind the wheel, but I enjoyed it. I thought it had a pretty quick throttle response even at low revs and especially in Sport mode. The gearbox was super smooth and responsive. I think the steering feel is good, not much difference in feel from my IS300, which is comparatively heavy at low speeds, as expected. Brakes felt good as well.

Overall, it was a sufficient enough experience to convince me I didn't need to wait out an M2 considering I will most likely do very little to no track time in the car and my commute sucks, so probably more friendly as a DD. And, $10k cheaper after negotiating a below invoice deal where the M2 would go most likely at MSRP at best. The dealer found an MG with 90% of the options I wanted about 5 hours away, so I should get the car by early next week at the latest. I'm pretty stoked!
Congratulations! Drive it in good health- I really feel that I am leaning M240 Mineral Gray also- I have MG on my 435GC and love it. And carbon fiber - BMW's bits at least- look PERFECT with MG. But I want a carbon fiber front splitter, blacked out grill, carbon fiber mirror caps, 19s- not settled on those yet- and slightly lowered. I think would look bad ass - as fast as M2, better fuel economy, quieter- handles as well as anyone would want (Lowered and 19 x 9 at the rear- a bit more grip than the 8's that are standard). All that would be slightly less than M2- but I want a sports coupe- not a "racing" coupe. No the M240 will never handle like the wider, lower, better suspensioned M2- but it doesnt have to - it will be perfect car carving up windy roads wherever you find them, but more refined without as much NVH. And I am going to throw about 2k of sound equipment in mine too- I like loud, clear sound and that small space can be made to sound good.
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      09-08-2016, 01:26 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime503 View Post
Are there no folding mirrors on the M240 in the U.S.? That's news to me...
I have been corrected and the 2017 M240 does have folding mirrors
my wifes M235 does not
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      09-08-2016, 03:15 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilberGrau ZHP View Post
I have been corrected and the 2017 M240 does have folding mirrors
my wifes M235 does not
The m235 has folding mirrors (at least the ones I've sat in at the dealer). What year 235 does she have? I wonder if it was an option then.
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      09-08-2016, 07:59 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by ZilberGrau ZHP View Post
Congratulations! Drive it in good health- I really feel that I am leaning M240 Mineral Gray also- I have MG on my 435GC and love it. And carbon fiber - BMW's bits at least- look PERFECT with MG. But I want a carbon fiber front splitter, blacked out grill, carbon fiber mirror caps, 19s- not settled on those yet- and slightly lowered. I think would look bad ass - as fast as M2, better fuel economy, quieter- handles as well as anyone would want (Lowered and 19 x 9 at the rear- a bit more grip than the 8's that are standard). All that would be slightly less than M2- but I want a sports coupe- not a "racing" coupe. No the M240 will never handle like the wider, lower, better suspensioned M2- but it doesnt have to - it will be perfect car carving up windy roads wherever you find them, but more refined without as much NVH. And I am going to throw about 2k of sound equipment in mine too- I like loud, clear sound and that small space can be made to sound good.
Thanks! The mods sound great. I think it will be a great platform for mods. I was thinking 19s, suspension and sound as well. Interested to learn what decision you make.
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