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      05-16-2015, 10:57 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
So after all of this investigation, I have a question:

If the left and right radiators on my M235i are for additional engine coolant, why are they different? The vertical cooling tubes are much wider spaced on the right radiator than on the left radiator.

If they are both for engine coolant, then I would think that both radiators would be identical.
Passenger side aux is oil on the M235i. Driver side aux is coolant on the M235i.
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      05-16-2015, 11:05 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Both auxiliary radiators are for coolant; neither are for oil. This has been verified in the F30 tech guide for the N20. Check the routing of the hoses from it, as well as the type. The construction of the radiator itself is a giveaway: the structure looks like corrugated cardboard. Oil coolers look like a thick piece of wood laminate (but made of aluminum).

The N20 already has two oil coolers; one in the driver's side nose between the edge of the main radiator and the overflow tank, and a smaller one near the thermostat on the very top of the engine.
This is what threw me ^^^^
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      05-16-2015, 11:20 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L
So after all of this investigation, I have a question:

If the left and right radiators on my M235i are for additional engine coolant, why are they different? The vertical cooling tubes are much wider spaced on the right radiator than on the left radiator.

If they are both for engine coolant, then I would think that both radiators would be identical.
See my post from 5/11 above. I did some additional diagram study on RealOEM.com after user rwalker raised the same issue. Turns out that on the N55, the passenger-side aux radiator is for oil, and the driver's side one is for coolant - and the aux radiator on N55s with just the one appears to be for oil.

What we still don't know for sure is what the N20 breakdown is. I think they're both for coolant, based on evidence on RealOEM.
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      05-16-2015, 03:41 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L
So after all of this investigation, I have a question:

If the left and right radiators on my M235i are for additional engine coolant, why are they different? The vertical cooling tubes are much wider spaced on the right radiator than on the left radiator.

If they are both for engine coolant, then I would think that both radiators would be identical.
One for oil, one for coolant.

Edit: Someone beat me to the punch...
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      05-16-2015, 04:59 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by German1967
I trust mine will be the same then, whenever it arrives.
I can confirm now it has both.
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      05-19-2015, 09:58 PM   #72
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As the guy that noticed the difference between my THP 228 and Viffermike's non-THP back in early April I have literally been following this thread since before it began. I've noticed a gradual shift in the discussion to include the N55, and I'd like to get it back on track. That the M235i uses one radiator for oil cooling and one for coolant was never in question. For some of us, it was never a question on the N20 that both are for coolant, but since some are less certain I took some photos over the weekend that should end any question that the 228i THP's auxiliary radiators are full of anything other than coolant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
I'd like to personally inspect a 228i with both aux radiators... anybody with pics of these, including tracing in the engine bay?
As you wish...

Disclaimer: These photos aren't great, but they're meant to be functional, not pretty. I've highlighted the relevant parts of each.

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This is the passenger side. You can clearly see that it's the same type of radiator that fills M235i driver's side.

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This is where the coolant ties into the system.

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The driver's side radiator is much tougher to get a camera on, but look closely and you'll see it's functionally identical to its counterpart, and very different to that of the M235i.

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Aaaand this is where it ties in on this side. You can see one of the oil coolers in the background. This hose doesn't connect to it.

Again, there can be no question that this is a different setup than the one used on the N55. If there's anything directly related to oil cooling involving these two radiators, it's not visible without disassembling the front of the car.


................


That brings us back to some of the lingering questions that remain from when The Great Radiator Controversy first became a thing.

Viffermike's extensive VIN comparisons show this to be a 2015-specific, and THP-specific phenomenon. My gut tells me, but I haven't confirmed, that it's M-Sport specific, as well; I can't recall seeing a single Sport Line with both aux radiators.

As several point out, it's wholly plausible that deleting one radiator is a cost-saving measure if BMW experienced fewer issues than expected in year one. That said, I'm unconvinced. The implication that a second radiator is somehow necessary only on the Track Handling Package would imply it's not equally necessary on other cars that are identical with regard to the drivetrain.

These radiators have very little function at low speed. There's no fan on them, so the only way they can be effective is the natural flow of air. The only logical conclusion I'm left with would be that you'd need this extra water cooling capacity if you're producing extra power, and it fits with BMW's MO, since radiators like these are something BMW tends to include in MPPKs. The company would have obviously mentioned any increase in power, so that's not our answer.

One could make the argument that it helps to fortify the car against the rigors of track use, but—and feel free to point out any error in this reasoning—you'd need more oil cooling exposed to the flow of ambient air (since there's currently none) before you increase coolant.

So where does that leave us? Square two. We know there's a difference, and we've got a decent clue that it correlates with a specific set of options. Without knowing the engineers' / accountants' rationale, we don't know anything else.


Did I just set the record for longest first post?
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      05-20-2015, 09:58 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMMZTR View Post
Did I just set the record for longest first post?
Oh nooooo. Some of the "look at my new car!!!" posts on the pics subforum are gigantic ...

Many thanks for the assist, my friend!

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      05-20-2015, 01:24 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Yours is typical, Pyewacket. Grayhair never sent me VIN info, so I can't investigate his claim of a M235i with a single aux radiator. All NA 2-series have the Hot Climate Version build; only a few select cars have been outfitted with a "Cold Climate Version" in addition (I've only seen VIN info for two of these).
Hi Viffermike,
I know that I'm probably late to the game but I wanted to add my 2 cents.
I'm still waiting for my 228 to arrive. 4/21/15 build. I ran my vin through and this is what I found. S823A and S842A (hot climate and cold climate), S840A (high spd sync). I ordered the M sport pkg and THP. Also, not sure why but I have the N26B2000 not the N20.
Car has not arrived as yet, it's on the Artemis Leader. Hopefully I'll see it at the second week of June. I'll check if it has the drivers side rad, hope it does.
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      05-20-2015, 01:35 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroo View Post
Hi Viffermike,
I know that I'm probably late to the game but I wanted to add my 2 cents.
I'm still waiting for my 228 to arrive. 4/21/15 build. I ran my vin through and this is what I found. S823A and S842A (hot climate and cold climate), S840A (high spd sync). I ordered the M sport pkg and THP. Also, not sure why but I have the N26B2000 not the N20.
Car has not arrived as yet, it's on the Artemis Leader. Hopefully I'll see it at the second week of June. I'll check if it has the drivers side rad, hope it does.
Yours should have both aux radiators.
BUT!:
Since your car is an N26 with SULEV certification -- which, I'm guessing, is because of your location in paradise (also known as Hawaii) -- there could be an anomaly. That said, SULEV has mostly to do with the fuel system and not cooling, so the chances of it affecting the second aux radiator's inclusion are fairly low. I think. I hope (in your case) ...
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      06-08-2015, 07:01 AM   #76
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Just putting in a data point, and I know this thread is claimed "SOLVED"...

M235i xdrive, new england car, august '14 build of a MY2015...
came with the all-seasons (sigh) aka top-speed-delete thing

and I have two radiators
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      06-28-2015, 09:16 AM   #77
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OK, so even though I will never understand why the EU M235i coupe version is deprived of the auxiliary radiator (even though we can have really hot summers here) - there is an additional aspect to it that nobody mentioned so far. Namely - when I display the TPMS screen while driving fast and in hot weather - I can clearly see the right front tire works in considerably higher temperature and hence has a slightly higher pressure in it than the left front tire. This is a side effect of one of the air inlets being fake, and if the tire is hotter on one side, so are the brakes... This certainly isn't good for a car in a long run, is it?
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      06-28-2015, 04:51 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moldcad View Post
... - when I display the TPMS screen while driving fast and in hot weather - I can clearly see the right front tire works in considerably higher temperature and hence has a slightly higher pressure in it than the left front tire. This is a side effect of one of the air inlets being fake, and if the tire is hotter on one side, so are the brakes... This certainly isn't good for a car in a long run, is it?
When I was taking flying lessons many years ago (analog gauge era), after my first instructor finished explaining all of the gauges in the airplane, he referred to them as "worry" gauges.
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      08-18-2016, 09:02 PM   #79
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Bump to an old thread.

Keep in mind. On N20, seems there are two heat exchangers for the oil cooling.
I suspect the second coolant radiator is not added on because the coolant temp is actually dangerously high when strained. But it was probably significantly safer and more affordable to bring down the coolant temp to cool the oil more effectively, than adding another oil cooler.

Consider... Catastrophic loss of oil vs coolant.

Bet you shut down and save engine faster with coolant leak than oil.

The heat exchangers tend to be safe and reliable, low risk, and, heats up the oil quickly on start up vs air cooled.

I haven't reviewed location of heat exchanger. On S62 it is parked in valley which heats up the air intake! (Dinan DP moved it) hopefully ours don't hear up the intake charge, and allow at least convection cooling. They are not as dependent on airflow as you may think, the coolant whisks away the heat.

May join the fray.... Considering sale of 3 cars to justify the 228

Last edited by Alex Lipowich; 08-18-2016 at 09:07 PM.. Reason: Typo
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      08-19-2016, 11:16 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Lipowich View Post
Bump to an old thread.

Keep in mind. On N20, seems there are two heat exchangers for the oil cooling.
I suspect the second coolant radiator is not added on because the coolant temp is actually dangerously high when strained. But it was probably significantly safer and more affordable to bring down the coolant temp to cool the oil more effectively, than adding another oil cooler.

Consider... Catastrophic loss of oil vs coolant.

Bet you shut down and save engine faster with coolant leak than oil.

The heat exchangers tend to be safe and reliable, low risk, and, heats up the oil quickly on start up vs air cooled.

I haven't reviewed location of heat exchanger. On S62 it is parked in valley which heats up the air intake! (Dinan DP moved it) hopefully ours don't hear up the intake charge, and allow at least convection cooling. They are not as dependent on airflow as you may think, the coolant whisks away the heat.

May join the fray.... Considering sale of 3 cars to justify the 228
The primary oil heat exchanger on the 228 is just behind the driver's-side headlamp, fairly close to the air intake. Not much airflow there, but plenty of space around it ... the second one is relatively small and right on top of the engine.

Regarding coolant radiators on the 228: that the Track Handling Package -- and, more specifically, the larger brakes that come with the THP -- are the trigger for the second aux coolant radiator on the 228 makes some sense regarding your theory. Consider that BMW's operating-temperature parameters for coolant temp actually decrease as the driving mode harshness (Eco Pro, Comfort, Sport, Sport+) is increased -- i.e., the 'normal' operating range is several degrees higher in Comfort than it is in Sport, etc.) -- seems to support a heavier predicted use of THP-equipped cars in harsh conditions such as racing and track driving. To keep the engine operating within parameters in Sport+ mode would require a lower overall operating temp for the coolant, which may require the extra aux radiator in the eyes of BMW engineers.
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      09-12-2016, 06:23 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTR View Post
The exclusion of a temp gauge is the only real issue I have with my M235i. A very strange silly omission. They certainly had the space for it in the gauge cluster.
Is there a digital readout for this anywhere?
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      09-13-2016, 03:44 PM   #82
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Is there a digital readout for this anywhere?
Yes ....
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