[Legal Bill]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Edmunds.com says this:

"Well, okay, you might like an extra set of doors, which brings the 2015 Mercedes-Benz CLA-Class and the 2015 Audi A3 and S3 into play. Connoisseurs tend to prefer BMW's rear-wheel-drive dynamics, but these front-drive-based alternatives handle very well in their own right, and their four-door designs make them more versatile. We also recommend the all-new 2015 Ford Mustang, as its newfound refinement makes it a more plausible BMW substitute than ever before. But if you're looking for all-around excellence, it's tough to avoid the conclusion that the 2015 BMW 2 Series is the car to beat."

Since you brought it up, here is my review of the S3

The 2015 Audi S3 shares its MQB platform, EA888 2.0 litre turbo charged engine, most of its 6 speed DCG transmission and Haldex all wheel drive with the VW Golf R. As a result, the two manufacturers do everything in their power to obfuscate both the differences and similarities between the two. The VW, equipped with the optional DCC suspension has a sticker price just under $40K. The Audi S3 Premium (oddly, the lowest of two equipment levels) with the performance package (19 inch wheels and tires with "Magnetic" ride) and one or two other useful options like heated and folding side view mirrors comes in at $44K. So for about $4K more you have the Audi version with a more attractive if less practical body style, a much nicer interior, and more electronic gadgets. But wait, the Golf will have navigation, while at $44K, the Audi will not. The Audi Nav system is moronically expensive at $2500 alone or as part of a (gulp) $6K "Prestige" trim level (take that, "Premium"). VW throws their Nav system in with the DCC suspension system (VW for Magnetic Ride if you speak Audi) for a total price bump of $2500. This is like the automotive version of trying to price a Sony TV at two different retailers. They don't sell exactly the same model and you need to take an adult education course to figure out how to compare the two.

But I digress before I even begin. The takeaway is that the upscale 4 door sedan with the premium brand name plate and all the additional luxury features costs only 10% more than the boxy-"hot hatch"-droopy pants version of the same car. Plus, the Audis are plentiful while the Golf R is hard to find. The Audis sell at a bit of a discount, while the VWs seem to sell for sticker price. So I drive my trusty BMW 330i to the neighborhood Audi dealer and promptly meet a brand new salesman, recently departed from the food service industry and now prepared to tell me all about Audis. He's a nice guy, a bit stiff and trying very hard to know his product and follow the automobile sales system that he just learned two days ago. He introduces me to a Misano Red Audi S3 with a $48K sticker price and more options than I want, but I'm here for a test drive, so let's test.

First the walk around. The Audi's sedan body style is handicapped by its hatchback roots. In profile, the car ends abruptly at one-minute-after-the-back-window giving the car a stubby appearance in photographs. In life it isn't as bad, but is that good enough? The front end is very nice with the Audi family grill taking up 50% of the scene. The additional openings and headlights are tastefully aggressive and I like the overall effect. From the rear the car looks tight, tidy and clean. What else can one ask of a rear end?

Inside we find back seats with a fair amount of room for knees, feet, heads and hips, even when they are all connected to the rest of the human being. People who have recently served time in the back seat of a Mustang GT will feel downright comfortable back there, but don't try to squeeze anyone between them. My 330i has a bit more back seat room. The front seats are just plain excellent and the driver's side is very supportive with a great view of road out front. Not so great out the side for some reason. I think the roof line cuts a bit low and the seats don't go down quite as far as I would like. The trunk is a lot like the Mustang's, which is pretty good when you realize this car is about a foot shorter.

The salesman gives me a few useful pieces of information (push this button to start the car, push that button to turn off the parking brake) and I put the DCG into some sort of gear and slowly drive towards the exit. The dealership is located on a very busy road so when I spot a small opening in the line of traffic I hit the gas...and... after a tick of turbo lag, the car scoots into traffic. I have no idea how close the car behind me got before the turbo kicked in, but he didn't hit me or honk the horn. I didn't think I should look in the rear view mirror to see how he was doing. Why risk further humiliation and scorn? I give the throttle a few more stabs and the car accelerates well, but not in an explosive fashion. Traffic is heavy so I really don't have the chance to open it up.

When left to its own devices the DCG shifts smartly and holds gears well. Get off the gas and the car upshifts like all automatics. So if you want to use the engine for a bit of breaking you have to use the slap shift or the paddles on the wheel. I give the paddles a try and after a few embarrassing choices I start to get the hang of it. I'm surprised that downshifts don't really slow the car down much. The engine just revs higher. A very different experience from the Mustang. So will I ever use this feature if I buy this car? I think so. It could be fun to paddle my way down the street. But maybe not.

I take some side streets and find that I am enjoying the sense of being one with the car. Like my BMW, I feel (or perhaps don't feel) the parts of the car working together as one piece and me connected to it right in the middle. The car holds the road remarkably well and I don't think I would ever find the limits while driving on the street. I would need to autocross this car for a season to figure out when one end or the other will break loose.

During the drive the salesman is showing me the various settings for the engine and tranny, ride and steering as I drive. You can choose between comfort performance and custom, which isn't really all that custom. It just seems to let you pick one setting for steering and the other for the engine, etc. This looks like a full-time job and I wonder how many times I will crash while trying to make these adjustments myself. Maybe Barbara can figure this out and do some passenger seat driving when we travel together. I'm surprised that I don't like the performance setting for the engine. The engine noise becomes pronounced and intrusive in this setting. But it isn't real engine noise. The car has an engine noise generator that I will have to disconnect if I ever buy it. I don't need fake engine noises no matter how fast I'm driving. I actually find it embarrassing that Audi does this.

We return to the dealer's lot with less drama than we left. The car stops well and the brakes react very quickly to pedal pressure. I apply the parking brake after I stop like the nice salesman taught me. We go inside for the obligatory post drive debriefing. After meeting the friendly sales manager, I leave the dealer with promises of great deals, fair treatment and eternal loyalty. I get into my BMW and quickly feel how much smoother the straight six runs after kicking the turbo four around town. The power comes as soon as I hit the gas pedal and it really doesn't feel much slower than the Audi. My BMW also feels bigger than the Audi, but not in a clumsy way. It's the interior that feels bigger and I kind of like it. Suddenly I realize my 10 year old BMW is competing for the job of my next daily driver.

[MikeT]

Entertaining review, Legal Bill. Really enjoyed it!

[nsquared]

GT vs. M235i w/ LSD is an interesting matchup.

[Kiwi]

I drove the 2015 Mustang in the US and the other week I test drove a right hand drive in New Zealand. What a shame the US does not get the refined export changes Ford as made to the export Mustang as I totally enjoy the RHD but hated the US model.

My dealer was telling me some of his M owners have had test drives of the V8 Mustang and were really impressed.

I didn't like the 4 cylinder Mustang, its sound was awful, corning was ok but the V8 cornering was great as I hit some nice tight rough corners at speed in the V8. The auto gear box got a little confused when I slowed down but had some nice smelling brakes before my drive back to the dealer.

[EternalVendetta]

I really wanted to get an American car, and the Mustang GT was the one that I was looking at most closely when I was in the market last year. The car's size and styling were deal-breakers for me in the end, as I wanted a fun car that was at least relatively mature-looking, was appropriately sized for two (it's usually just my wife and me), and had a backseat for a child seat in the future.

I'm not sure such any of the American manufacturers are making a car like this at the moment.

[mcompact]

Originally Posted by EternalVendetta

I really wanted to get an American car, and the Mustang GT was the one that I was looking at most closely when I was in the market last year. The car's size and styling were deal-breakers for me in the end, as I wanted a fun car that was at least relatively mature-looking, was appropriately sized for two (it's usually just my wife and me), and had a backseat for a child seat in the future.

I'm not sure such any of the American manufacturers are making a car like this at the moment.

I could tolerate the Mustang's size, but the deal-breakers for me were:
1. Ford's option bundling
2. The need for the Ford Racing Track Handling Pack(even with the Perf. Pkg.) to make it suitable for HPDEs

I ended up with a well equipped CPO 2014 M235i with 15k miles on the clock for less than the MSRP of a 2016 GT with the Perf Pkg. and Recaros. All it needs is a LSD.

[olehead]

I have a 2013 Mustang GT/CS which has been heavily modded (i.e. 425rwhp)
I really love the car for both the street and the track - along with the increase in HP I modified the suspension in order to launch better.

As a second car we have always had a bmw - We test drove the M235 and loved it -and took delivery in October

Having both I feel pretty qualified to say - trying to compare them is not reasonable - especially looking at the base price difference (my mustang has about 8K in mods so it is closer to the M) so the comparison is easier

I will say this in a straight line WOT the mustang is a throw your head back blast - but the M is no slouch and really out performs the GT on the twisty back roads of NH -

I will be adding a Active Autowarke tuner next month to the M and testing in at the track in April - and expect great results

In addition I test drove a new GT350 and it is beast-- I personally do not like the changes Mustang has done to the body styles - lost some of the muscle car appeal - so my 13 is here to stay!!

Pick you poison both great cars -

[olehead]

Here is a picture both the GT and the M

[SteveInfante]

I guess I will chime in. I just sold my 13' GT Track Pack/Recaro and bought my 228 last summer.

The biggest thing for me was the weight difference. I always felt as though I was constantly having to manage the weight of the GT. I have never felt that way in the 2. I don't really miss the power of the 5.0 because I was really able to use it all in Germany for 3 years. so coming back here to normal speeds I'm kind of thankful I don't get tempted to hit 155 in 5th. I would be in jail.

I've driven the Nurburgring and Hockenheimring in the GT and the Hockenheimring in the 2. Also many,many WOT top speed runs on the autobahn. too many to count.

Gas mileage. Hooning the 2 all day I still average better mileage than the GT driving it like a Prius.

The only thing I really truly miss about the GT is that glorious exhaust, I had Kooks and the Recaro seats. Best seats I've ever had in any car. I had the cloth.