[bacampbe]

For all the 228i fans: Would your answers change if we were talking about the convertible?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bacampbe

For all the 228i fans: Would your answers change if we were talking about the convertible?

Not mine. I don't get the connection. I would never want a convertible. If 2 Series were convertible-only, I would have bought something else.

[MikeT]

Allow me to wade in on this...

I've recently done fairly exhaustive test-drives of both the 228i and the m235i.

I don't currently own either car, and I haven't ordered either one (yet).

In the large scheme of things, the two cars are fairly close. I doubt that overwhelming number of buyers will notice subtle differences in handling, suspension or weight distribution.

The one blindingly obvious difference that even the most unsophisticated driver will notice, however, is the engine. Do the m235i's two extra cylinders make a difference? Yes, they do. It's the difference between adequate (228i) or wow (m235i). Anyone who denies that difference is lacking in either (1) truthfulness; or (2) a pulse.

But, as they say, different strokes for difference folks. I can totally get why someone would opt for the 228i. It weighs less. Fuel economy is better. You're probably less likely to get speeding tickets. It costs less.

Let's face it, though. A loaded-up 228i off the dealer lot and a bare-bones ED m235i can be had for the roughly the same money, let's say $39K. If I were choosing between the two, I'd take the latter.

[ocN55]

I played around with the configurator yesterday and was pretty surprised to see that the 228 is only $3455 less than a base m235i.
Add these options to a 228 (which come standard on the 235):
M Sport Package
Lighting Package
Moonroof
Powerseats with memory
=$39,645

And the base msrp of a 235i is 43,100. In this perspective, it's really hard to spec out a 228 and justify it.

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by mfourn20

I have an M-Sport, non track package, came with staggered, summer only Bridgestone runflats....I'm missing them since I switched to my winter setup, but I'll be mounting Michelin PSS in the spring. My car is a lease and I plan on storing the run-flats and putting them back on when I return the car...they're ridiculously expensive.

Good call. PSS are a nice, cheap upgrade, considering the cost of new rft at lease-end.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by mfourn20

I have an M-Sport, non track package, came with staggered, summer only Bridgestone runflats....I'm missing them since I switched to my winter setup, but I'll be mounting Michelin PSS in the spring. My car is a lease and I plan on storing the run-flats and putting them back on when I return the car...they're ridiculously expensive.

I did this with the MINI I recently turned in. Worked perfectly. I figured I was going to have to buy a set of tires anyway so why not buy them up front rather than at the end? That way I got to drive on much better non-runflats for almost all of the lease and they got their original tires back. As you said, doing it this way is a lot cheaper because if you replace the tires at the end you have to buy runflats.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by mfourn20

I have an M-Sport, non track package, came with staggered, summer only Bridgestone runflats....I'm missing them since I switched to my winter setup, but I'll be mounting Michelin PSS in the spring. My car is a lease and I plan on storing the run-flats and putting them back on when I return the car...they're ridiculously expensive.

I did same thing. Took them off after about 100 Kms. They are evil. Let them on original wheels and reinstalled at lease end.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

Good call. PSS are a nice, cheap upgrade, considering the cost of new rft at lease-end.

So +1

My shitty Pirelli Centurato All Seasons will be gathering dust till lease end when I put em back on.

My car was in-stock, so I purchased it with the NO Seasons and made a deal on snow tires at the same time.

Am currently running Blizzak LM's for winter (love em) and I'll put some PSS shoes on this Spring...

[jwr0721]

Hey guys - I think it's a given that what I'm saying is my opinion.

How about we all take our gear sticks out of our asses and not get so butt hurt when someone offers their thoughts on a message board about BMW's?

[jwr0721]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The point is false. The reason is conflating one's own subjective feelings with objective reality. There are objective measures which separate the two cars....speed, weight, fuel consumption, handling, price, etc. How each of us puts those elements into our own personal calculator to create our own subjective best varies and each is as valid as the next. There is no point to attempting to force your own personal assessment from subjective to objective...those who already feel the same will continue, and those who don't, will not. Nothing gained, except becoming seen as a source of dogma.

The poster asked for people's opinions about their car. I offered mine. They're both great cars. I drove a 128i for 4 years. Loved it. The M235i is better. I test drove a 228 before buying the M. Loved it - but had a definite feel that I would be "settling" if I chose the 28 and I didn't want to spend the next 4-5 years regretting my purchase.

[Monoblock]

Originally Posted by jwr0721

The poster asked for people's opinions about their car. I offered mine.

Not that I care that much, but it's your phrasing that is...uh... "irritating":

"My point is the M235 is the best version of the 2 series. That's all."

But you didn't make any point. You stated an opinion, but you state it as if it were fact. Hence you got called out on it. If you're going to assert things in that style, expect people to respond in kind.

[jwr0721]

Originally Posted by Monoblock

Not that I care that much, but it's your phrasing that is...uh... "irritating":

"My point is the M235 is the best version of the 2 series. That's all."

But you didn't make any point. You stated an opinion, but you state it as if it were fact. Hence you got called out on it. If you're going to assert things in that style, expect people to respond in kind.

I see your point, but I think the issue is that it seems people generally read message boards seeking to get offended and ascribing some sort of bitchy tone to other posters when if they just read things with a calm inner-monologue none of this would happen.

I'm pretty sure BMW probably considers the M235i to be the best version of the 2 series. It's the top-of-the-line version of the car.

That doesn't mean the 228i is a piece of shit. It's a great car. But it's not an M235i. It's just not. If the 228 were the better car, it would cost more, etc. a great value? Absolutely! Fun as hell? Absolutely! But better than an M235i? Probably not.

And BTW - of COURSE Jalopnik is going to write an article calling the 228 the "best" 2 series. There are a million articles about how AMAZING the M235i is (including Car and Driver's "10 Best" list). Jalopnik needs people to click on their site and read their articles so they can sell advertising. Their article is just click bait. A way to be a differentiator. Clever marketing.

And BTW - I haven't seen a single M235 driver say "Geeze ... I sure wish I'd gotten the 228 instead ... Doh!" But I bet you there are a LOT of 228 drivers (probably some replying to this thread) who wish they had the M235i.

So yes - IN MY OPINION (and in the opinion of probably the majority of people out there) the M235i is the superior version of the 2 series.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by jwr0721

I'm pretty sure BMW probably considers the M235i to be the best version of the 2 series. It's the top-of-the-line version of the car.

Actually, knowing some folks at BMW, I can tell you they would say that the 228i is the best car which addresses its particular objectives, financial, quality, dynamic, etc. And, the M235i is the best which address its distinct objectives, which will be different in some key aspects. The relevant measure is how well each car met its program objectives. Of course, we understand why a manufacturer will take the position that all of their products are the "best" across the model line-up. However, I can assure you they don't think any of their products are inferior, that is, failing to meet its own objectives to a greater degree, as compared to any of their other products.

I sense that you may more highly value and agree with the objectives set for the higher performance vehicle. However, those simply make for a different product, not a "better" one.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Allow me to wade in on this...

I've recently done fairly exhaustive test-drives of both the 228i and the m235i.

I don't currently own either car, and I haven't ordered either one (yet).

In the large scheme of things, the two cars are fairly close. I doubt that overwhelming number of buyers will notice subtle differences in handling, suspension or weight distribution.

The one blindingly obvious difference that even the most unsophisticated driver will notice, however, is the engine. Do the m235i's two extra cylinders make a difference? Yes, they do. It's the difference between adequate (228i) or wow (m235i). Anyone who denies that difference is lacking in either (1) truthfulness; or (2) a pulse.

But, as they say, different strokes for difference folks. I can totally get why someone would opt for the 228i. It weighs less. Fuel economy is better. You're probably less likely to get speeding tickets. It costs less.

Let's face it, though. A loaded-up 228i off the dealer lot and a bare-bones ED m235i can be had for the roughly the same money, let's say $39K. If I were choosing between the two, I'd take the latter.

Yes you are definitely in the majority and share the most popular view but fast heavy cars are a dime a dozen. A Toyota Siena will put drag my childhood lust mobile the1983 mustang gt 5.0. You have SUVs that go fast. But some of us appreciate nimbleness. That's why some guys prefer an underpowered cayman over turbo cayenne. The surge in the 235 is impressive but you feel the heft. The 228 feels a little better turning so the discussion was about comparing both cars strengths and for me the 235 dissapointes a little bit while the 228 surprises me and exceeds my expectations. Both are too soft. If the M235 weighted the 228 3300 lbs, I would be unquestionably the winner. Unfortunately they are configured With a lot of extra fluff that hurts it.

Those that say the 236 is the best Bmw out there are correct but it's partially because the other ones have gone down. The 3 series is blah now. So as long as a good car is solely judged on acceleration the 235 wins in the other hand the 228 is not slow and rewards with nimbler feel and once warmed up I love the sound of the waste gates blowing and somewhat cruder sound. Both are still the best bmws offered today but there are those that appreciate subtleties. Your point is like saying soccer is lame because there are few goals. Americans would agree with you it The other 5 billion that appreciate what happens between the goals would disagree with you also.

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by nachob

Yes you are definitely in the majority and share the most popular view but fast heavy cars are a dime a dozen. A Toyota Siena will put drag my childhood lust mobile the1983 mustang gt 5.0. You have SUVs that go fast. But some of us appreciate nimbleness. That's why some guys prefer an underpowered cayman over turbo cayenne. The surge in the 235 is impressive but you feel the heft.

Right here, and I don't own either one, but test drove them both back to back.
The heft is noticeable in the first sub-20mph corner you come to, unless you're driving like an old lady.

[jwr0721]

I think we can all agree that they are both amazing cars.

Again - having driven a 128 for 4 years, and absolutely loving it - you can't go wrong with either.

But I am head-over-heels in love with my M235i in a way which I was never in love with the 1.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by sc3200

I played around with the configurator yesterday and was pretty surprised to see that the 228 is only $3455 less than a base m235i.
Add these options to a 228 (which come standard on the 235):
M Sport Package
Lighting Package
Moonroof
Powerseats with memory
=$39,645

And the base msrp of a 235i is 43,100. In this perspective, it's really hard to spec out a 228 and justify it.

thats only if you spec them the same. personally i'd get the normal sport, to get a different color, and i hate moonroofs and have no real use for power seats in a coupe.

significant difference in price. you can't remove any of that stuff from a m235i. i agree if you are equipping them exactly the same you might as well get the m235i

if you do say just lighting and sport, its only 35100 vs 43100. quite a difference. plus you can get a car in orange or something. yes the n55 feels a little smoother from my experience, but the n20 is terrible and is more than fast (plus you get a little better weight balance). i don't think either car is bad at all they are easily the 2 best cars bmw makes these days for a driver. honestly if bmw would let us build a 235i without all the extra parts (so like a 235i sport line, with the 320hp n55 if somehow the engine upgrade was $3500 like identical cars would be) i would guess a lot of people would take that.... given there are barely any m235s on the lot as it is, they might as well just let people order 235s any way we want.

[Rupes]

I test drove both as well. Both are great, but I think if I had to pick one today I'd either go with the 228i or wait for the M2. I just felt like the 228 does the lightweight, balanced coupe thing well. If I got an M235i, I'd just be disappointed I didn't wait for the M2 with its standard limited slip diff and who knows what other tweaks. I'd feel satisfied with the 228i because the delta between it and the M2 would be greater. I know, this probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but I've always been a fan of base BMW's and M cars, but never the models in between. I'm probably a very small minority in that sense.

We're splitting hairs though, because I think these are both the best cars BMW makes today (despite being some of the most affordable too).

[chaswyck1]

I absolutely love my 228 and have no regrets at all about it not being a 235. None. It's super fast, faster than most people will ever use. I don't track my cars so there is zero chance I will ever push the car to its limits, despite the fact that I drive it pretty aggressively. I had a 2009 335i with twin turbos (not dual scroll) and it was a rocket, but that car had nothing on the 228. The 228 is more fun than the 335 was, just as fast, much more nimble, better in turns, and more planted. If I had ordered a 235 I would have spent the next three years regretting that it wasn't orange. The unavailability of VO in the 235 was a deal breaker for me and I frankly never strongly considered it. I priced them both, but it kept coming down to the question of, "do I want a car that's got even more power that I will never use and that's a color that I'm not happy with?" Every time I walk up to my VO car I have a huge smile on my face, especially now that it's (apprearance) modded exactly as I want it. Finally, as for price difference, you can't compare MSRP to MSRP. There are better deals to be had on the 228 than the 235, especially on the West Coast and especially in SoCal. 235's were being sold at MSRP when I ordered my 228 (that, according to a very highly respected CA sponsor on Bimmerfest). I didn't get a 228 to save money because I optioned my 228 with premium, lighting and track handling package which gives it everything a 235 has except the 6 cyl and the M steering wheel. The MSRP on my car was just $2,300 less than an unoptioned 235 so it wasn't about saving money for me. The 228 gave me everything I wanted, including VO, and way more than I needed. So, FOR ME, the 228 was the better choice (notice I didn't say the better car).

[LDSM]

I was in a similar situation, and ultimately chose to go for the m235.

I'm coming from an f30 328 with the n20 engine. I love it, it has more power than I need, it's pretty good on gas mileage, and hasn't had any problems so far.
I went with the m235 because I wanted a different engine. Although I'm happy with the n20, if I'm getting a new car I want it to feel like a different car than what I had before, and I was afraid that by getting the 228 It would be too similar to what I'm already driving. One thing I don't like about the n20 is the noise, even my wife noticed, she didn't like the sound of the engine too much she said it sounded like a truck. So I figured if we're getting a different car, then let's do it all the way.

Also the way I optioned both the 228 and 235 the price difference wasn't too much.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Rupes

I test drove both as well. Both are great, but I think if I had to pick one today I'd either go with the 228i or wait for the M2. I just felt like the 228 does the lightweight, balanced coupe thing well. If I got an M235i, I'd just be disappointed I didn't wait for the M2 with its standard limited slip diff and who knows what other tweaks. I'd feel satisfied with the 228i because the delta between it and the M2 would be greater. I know, this probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but I've always been a fan of base BMW's and M cars, but never the models in between. I'm probably a very small minority in that sense.

We're splitting hairs though, because I think these are both the best cars BMW makes today (despite being some of the most affordable too).

+1. I feel exactly. Waiting g for m2 to compare all 3 versions before pulling the trigger. I almost went m235 blindly. I had it configured with German configurator as light as possible with Msport Alcantara cloth manual seats, no sunroof, no power folding mirrors, fixed suspension and steering. Then the wheels fell off when US configurator came on. Vinyl seats or leather,power folding everything mandatory. Dynamic suspension and steering mandatory. It was a total Afront to performance guys. Then I drove it hoping to change my mind . Soft, quiet and I could feel the extra 200 lbs over the 1m which they had touted that it was a 1M killer back then. So you can see how it dissapointes many hard core guys but the 228 surprised. There was a thread about the m235 being a top dissapointment for a magazine and it got flamed as usual. Sadly the M235 was my biggest dissapointment of the year. Now that I have gotten past the hype and see it in a different light it is still a great car and I feel it's the best all around BMW. If the. M2 comes all bloated too, I would rather have 228 or 235 next year. Holding my breath.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by LDSM

I was in a similar situation, and ultimately chose to go for the m235.

I'm coming from an f30 328 with the n20 engine. I love it, it has more power than I need, it's pretty good on gas mileage, and hasn't had any problems so far.
I went with the m235 because I wanted a different engine. Although I'm happy with the n20, if I'm getting a new car I want it to feel like a different car than what I had before, and I was afraid that by getting the 228 It would be too similar to what I'm already driving. One thing I don't like about the n20 is the noise, even my wife noticed, she didn't like the sound of the engine too much she said it sounded like a truck. So I figured if we're getting a different car, then let's do it all the way.

Also the way I optioned both the 228 and 235 the price difference wasn't too much.

My wife has a 2014 328 and I can tell you that, same engine notwithstanding, there is a huge difference between the 328 and the 228 with THP. The 228 is faster, more responsive, much more "tossable" and handles much better. I think what you were driving before makes a difference though. I was coming out of a MINI S which was a fun car, but suffered badly from torque and bump steer and it was not nearly as quick as the 228. The ride and power of the 228 is vastly better and that made the 228 seem "right" for me.