[rsternitup]

Having owned a 2010 MS3, I can tell you that the car had a ton of personality. However, the torque steer was ridiculous, the ride quality beat the hell out of you, the shifter was notchy, and the clutch takeup was horrible. It was fun, but having come from a 2007 GTI, it was actually a disappointment. It completely lacked any refinement....but it did have a ton of power.

Current cars are a 2013 Focus ST and a 235i. The Focus is the first American car that I've owned since my '79 Firebird Formula....back in 1979. The ST has far exceeded my expectations, as the fit/finish, power, ride quality, handling, shifter and clutch are even better than my son's 2010 GTI.

The 235, however, is in a completely different league. Hard to describe, but the car just has "it", whether it's the ride, the power, the sound. It can be anything you want...from a cruiser to a race car.

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by timsev

If you're worried about space, well the Mazda isn't really that big either. The trunk/hatch is actually smaller than the trunk on the BMW. Fold the seats down in the 2 and you're good to go.

The 2 might have more space, but it pairs that space with a stupidly narrow trunk opening. Otherwise, it is surprisingly spacious indeed.

I would say that if you're looking for a backroad weapon, a speed3(GTI, Focus/Fiesta ST) is probably the better car(s). It is way more focused and devoted to absolute performance. I wouldn't trade my 235 for any of them though, but I would like to replace my Mini Cooper S with a Fiesta ST though.

[sstarrx3]

Well I have never driven either...but I can atest that my 228i has a wonderful ride. I can also atest that besides the superior engineering and driving dynamics of the 2er nothing else on the 2er is close to LUXURY. The interior is very plastic looking. The leather looks and feels like vinyl...may hold up better in the long run....but not LUXURY. I bought my car to drive. THE AUDIs are more luxurious as far as interior goes. If you want luxury out of a BMW it will cost you north of $60000.

[m1cism]

I have driven the MS3 many times, but never owned one so my opinion may not be as truthful as you need OP. However, I have driven 350z, GTI, MS3, WRX hatch, etc.. Basically I am (was) a huge hatch fan in the past. That is until I discovered the F22.


I think one of the biggest differences between the F22 and the hatches is the weight distribution. The F22 just seems to sit right and handle turns and corners with amazing ease. It makes the car much more enjoyable to ride. I am not saying that the hatches do not do this well, but the F22 seems to master it.

Now when discussing transmissions, I cannot say much since I have the AT. But to be honest, in my opinion, BMW makes some of the best MT on the market so I think this should not be an issue.

Quality is the last characteristic I think is important to mention. A BMW means quality. Now that being said, the F22 does not have the most luxurious interior, but the build quality is supreme. Attention to detail is key, and this is hard to find on Mazda and VW cars.

[brianco1]

Originally Posted by Daddycat

Yes, I drove an 2.0T ATS Performance Package about a year ago with the intention of buying so I really wanted to love it. Three things stopped me: Too much [uninspiring] engine noise inside the cabin; the distraction and inconsistent response of the touch controls; and that overall it felt one size too big. Bottom line, it was a great car but we didn't "connect".

Was completely surprised by the 2-series when I first saw it 3 months ago. Didn't think of the ATS at the time, but now that you ask: I don't hear the 2.0T inside the car at all, which is good because it doesn't exactly sound like a Ferrari either; iDrive and a simple volume control knob beat a touchscreen any time--my eyes never leave the road; and it feels more responsive due to being some 7" shorter with a 50/50 F-R balance. Handling-wise it even reminds me of some of my past 2-seaters (MR2/NSX). It was love at first drive.

I liked the ATS, just not enough to buy it. I liked the 228i enough to order one right away. It's a true driver's car with exploitable limits, which I had been waiting for someone to build for about the last 10 years.

I agree the ATS feels to big for me to have the handling sharpness I want. Also agree that the CUE system which puts everything on multiple screen menu's is flat out dangerous. Good old no look buttons and dials are much better.

[brianco1]

Originally Posted by danimal

After my first test drive of a 228i manual, I came onto this forum and started a thread complaining about the transmission. You'll probably be amused by the description I used: "It honestly felt more like a VW than a BMW."

Fast forward to just after my second test drive, and my feelings about the transmission changed a lot. I was able to really get into a rhythm with it, and I started to see the silky smoothness of the throws and clutch operation as a pro, not a con.

I've now been driving the car for 11 days, and I can say the transmission is a gem, and one of the best things about the car. I still wouldn't mind just a touch more heft and slightly shorter throws, but that could be easily solved with a short shift kit or a sportier shift knob.

As for driving in traffic, I've encountered the worst possible driving conditions for a manual transmission--stop and go up a hill--once so far. It wasn't fun, but the light clutch and overall light effort of the shifter kept me from getting fatigued. In all other conditions, I find the car remarkably easy to drive smoothly.

As for the engine, I'd say the turbo makes the car extremely flexible. Shifting is a pleasure in this car, but if you're tired or feeling lazy, you really don't have to change gears that often. The 228i does have a bit of turbo lag, but it doesn't last very long, and if you keep it out of Eco Pro, you really shouldn't feel it too much.

When comparing the shifter with the GTI, I stand by my original statement: the two cars have pretty similar shift feel. One very memorable difference was the shift knob, which is dead serious on the Bimmer and a playful, golf-ball-like thing on the GTI. As for the clutch, I seem to recall that the VW had longer clutch travel with a higher engagement point. As I mentioned above, though, my biggest gripe was that I couldn't heel-toe the car at all. For me, that's one of the joys of driving stick. The 228i, on the other hand, seems to be perfectly set up for heel-toeing--I seem to get it right more often than in anything else I've owned.

Great help with the endorsement of the Transmission. This is one of my biggest concerns. Lastly now is the steering wheel. Will I miss the MSport Wheel if I get the Sportline? I love the GTI steering wheels. Anyone?

Thanks!

[m1cism]

Originally Posted by brianco1

Great help with the endorsement of the Transmission. This is one of my biggest concerns. Lastly now is the steering wheel. Will I miss the MSport Wheel if I get the Sportline? I love the GTI steering wheels. Anyone?

Thanks!

I have a sport line 228i and I think the steering wheel is fantastic. However, the MSport steering wheel IS better. Do I think you will be disappointed with the sport line steering wheel? - No, definitely not.

To be honest, I never liked the GTI steering wheel. The circumference was always too large and the thickness too small. But thats my opinion. The BMW steering wheel is much different - it's all personal preference.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by brianco1

Great help with the endorsement of the Transmission. This is one of my biggest concerns. Lastly now is the steering wheel. Will I miss the MSport Wheel if I get the Sportline? I love the GTI steering wheels. Anyone?

Thanks!

I grappled with the same question. I really like the look of the M Sport wheel, but so far, I really don't mind the standard wheel. Honestly, I don't really notice the look of it much from the driver's seat because I'm so close to it. Plus, it feels good in my hands, and the cruise and stereo controls on it are pretty easy to operate (perhaps a bit easier than on the M Sport wheel). For me, $700 just wasn't worth it for a steering wheel and some ground effects that look like they are just begging to be scraped (plus it rubs me the wrong way to pay extra for a fog light delete).

Also, given that I wanted Alpine White with black interior, I preferred the Sport Line's red trim and stitching vs. the M Sport's blue. Finally, I know this is very subjective, but I actually like the Sport Line wheels a bit better than the M Sport wheels. I'm not crazy about the glossy black mirrors, but they're not too bad if you go with a monochrome exterior color (white, black, or gray).

[brianco1]

Thanks a bunch. I have my configuration locked in now, great perspectives.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by brianco1

Thanks a bunch. I have my configuration locked in now, great perspectives.

Great! What did you decide on?

[brianco1]

Originally Posted by danimal

Great! What did you decide on?

228i, Sportline, Midnight Blue Metallic, Black SensaTec/Red Highlight, High-Gloss Black Trim, Manual Transmission, Lighting Package, Track Handling Package, Heated Front Seats, HK Sound.

Sad to hear from posters that the HK Sound Upgrade is not very good. Considering the basic stereo, then aftermarket it? I hate the idea of potential seals being compromised and rattles happening though. Thoughts on the stereos?

[timsev]

Originally Posted by Ritz42

I would say that if you're looking for a backroad weapon, a speed3(GTI, Focus/Fiesta ST) is probably the better car(s). It is way more focused and devoted to absolute performance. I wouldn't trade my 235 for any of them though, but I would like to replace my Mini Cooper S with a Fiesta ST though.

I'll have to disagree strongly with that one. What factors are you basing that opinion on?

[timsev]

Originally Posted by brianco1

228i, Sportline, Midnight Blue Metallic, Black SensaTec/Red Highlight, High-Gloss Black Trim, Manual Transmission, Lighting Package, Track Handling Package, Heated Front Seats, HK Sound.

Sad to hear from posters that the HK Sound Upgrade is not very good. Considering the basic stereo, then aftermarket it? I hate the idea of potential seals being compromised and rattles happening though. Thoughts on the stereos?

I have no complaints about the HK. I think it sounds fantastic. :dunno

Then again, I'm coming from E36 HK, then E46 HK, then E90 Logic 7. So basically a cardboard box would sound good to me.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by brianco1

228i, Sportline, Midnight Blue Metallic, Black SensaTec/Red Highlight, High-Gloss Black Trim, Manual Transmission, Lighting Package, Track Handling Package, Heated Front Seats, HK Sound.

Sad to hear from posters that the HK Sound Upgrade is not very good. Considering the basic stereo, then aftermarket it? I hate the idea of potential seals being compromised and rattles happening though. Thoughts on the stereos?

I think you'll be very happy with how you spec'd your car!

I passed on the HK sound because the consensus seemed to be that it just wasn't all that impressive. It's basically a choice between passable and competent. If you want audiophile quality, you'll have to turn to the aftermarket.

[VeryBadman]

Originally Posted by brianco1

228i, Sportline, Midnight Blue Metallic, Black SensaTec/Red Highlight, High-Gloss Black Trim, Manual Transmission, Lighting Package, Track Handling Package, Heated Front Seats, HK Sound.

Sad to hear from posters that the HK Sound Upgrade is not very good. Considering the basic stereo, then aftermarket it? I hate the idea of potential seals being compromised and rattles happening though. Thoughts on the stereos?

You can do simple upgrade base stereo with speakers of your choice (I picked JL Audio C2-400X) and it sounds better than HK (it has better clarity). However, HK with separated tweeter would give you a better sound stage and yes, you can do the same thing with after market speakers but the cost will be about the same as HK upgrade to do so.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by brianco1

228i, Sportline, Midnight Blue Metallic, Black SensaTec/Red Highlight, High-Gloss Black Trim, Manual Transmission, Lighting Package, Track Handling Package, Heated Front Seats, HK Sound.

Sad to hear from posters that the HK Sound Upgrade is not very good. Considering the basic stereo, then aftermarket it? I hate the idea of potential seals being compromised and rattles happening though. Thoughts on the stereos?

NICE! Excited for you!! Do euro delivery if you can!!!!!! Another thing you don't get with Mazda! At least do performance center delivery but euro is the best!!! Worth it. If you have euro questions pm me!

[abirmaher]

lol

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by brianco1

228i, Sportline, Midnight Blue Metallic, Black SensaTec/Red Highlight, High-Gloss Black Trim, Manual Transmission, Lighting Package, Track Handling Package, Heated Front Seats, HK Sound.

Sad to hear from posters that the HK Sound Upgrade is not very good. Considering the basic stereo, then aftermarket it? I hate the idea of potential seals being compromised and rattles happening though. Thoughts on the stereos?

At this point, if I were to get a 228i, I'd just order a new 2015 Mustang... having seen it in person, it offers more character and value than the 2-series. The only think impressive about the 2-series is the N55.. if you aint getting that, why bother..?

The 235i might give it a run, but a 228i.. ..

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by brianco1

228i, Sportline, Midnight Blue Metallic, Black SensaTec/Red Highlight, High-Gloss Black Trim, Manual Transmission, Lighting Package, Track Handling Package, Heated Front Seats, HK Sound.

Sad to hear from posters that the HK Sound Upgrade is not very good. Considering the basic stereo, then aftermarket it? I hate the idea of potential seals being compromised and rattles happening though. Thoughts on the stereos?

I would *totally* recommend going this route…cheap/stock stereo, followed by an immediate upgrade. The speakers in the HK just aren't making it, especially in the low-midrange area. I believe the drivers are just a tad too flimsy. The amp feels a bit underpowered too and the under-seat subs don't reach the lower registers very effectively.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

At this point, if I were to get a 228i, I'd just order a new 2015 Mustang... having seen it in person, it offers more character and value than the 2-series. The only think impressive about the 2-series is the N55.. if you aint getting that, why bother..?

The 235i might give it a run, but a 228i.. ..

While we're on the topic of cars that are in a completely different size class, you should also consider the Dodge Challenger.

P.S. Except for the sound at low RPMs, the B48 is making me extremely happy.

[mfourn20]

I've owned 2 Gen 2 Mazda3s. First a 2010 S hatchback with a manual, I loved that car...At the time it had all the power I wanted, and handled great. I then downgraded and moved to NYC, I leased a 2011 mazda3i sedan with an auto. That car handled great, but I hated the auto, and the power was way down over the 2.5L in the S models.

I now have an M Sport 228i. I've always loved sporty cars and thought I didnt mind the rattles and wind/road noise that came with the mazda3. Now that I've had my 228 up on the highway it's just pure bliss...it handles just as good as the mazdas without being stiff ALL the time. It pulls awesome on the highway.

Unexpectedly my favorite part is the silence...on the highway the 228i has the same noise inside at 100mph as the Mazda did at 60 (maybe less!). I have the HK sound in mine and it's just pure bliss to hear pretty much just the music and not have to raise my voice to talk to my wife...I never thought this would be my favorite part, but it really is just an amazingly pleasant place to be on the highway.

The 228i m sport just struck the right balance to me between a commuter car, a sporty car, and mild practicality. The Focus ST felt cheap inside, the GTI was boring all around (but drove nice), the Audi A3 (2.0 sedan) drove dull and looked boring...the 228i m sport with a manual trans was just sweet...I don't know what else to say, I couldn't be happier.

[brianco1]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

At this point, if I were to get a 228i, I'd just order a new 2015 Mustang... having seen it in person, it offers more character and value than the 2-series. The only think impressive about the 2-series is the N55.. if you aint getting that, why bother..?

The 235i might give it a run, but a 228i.. ..

Looks is a minority for me, I am in to DRIVERS cars. Cars that handle ridiculously fun, with a great manual transmission. Not a muscle car but an athletic one. The new Mustang although a good car, doesn't qualify for me. As for the 235i vs. 228i debate, the speed #'s aren't all that different to me, but the gas mileage is. 0-60 in under 6 seconds is all I need, as at that point how the car handles and the grin it puts on my face is all that matters. Heck, I'd buy the Ford Fiesta ST before a Stang, that sums up my thoughts right there.