[mczoomer]

I'm looking for impressions of the M235i from someone who is familiar with the Mazdaspeed3 (2012), my current ride.

In particular, my suspicion is that the M235i has similar or greater sportiness, but offers a far more comfortable ride -- more supportive seats, better suspension, and a less intrusive, more pleasing, engine growl. Can someone confirm? (I've only been on one test drive of the M235i, I liked it).

What I lose by going from MS3 to M235i is 5 door hatchback practicality, a bigger fuel tank (giving slightly better range, I think the MPGs of the 2 cars is very close), and of course a fair wad of cash. I'm just a bit tired of the rough ride -- depending on my mood i welcome it, but at other times it's annoying. My passengers complain a lot about the tight suspension. (OK, I could get new passengers :-).

If there's anyone here who has driven the MS3, I'd really be interested in your take on the comparative merits of the M235i.

[timsev]

The two cars aren't even in the same ballpark. Build quality is far superior in every way on the BMW. The interior of the MS3 is subpar to say the least. Cheap plastics, thin vinyl, horrible red lighting. MS3 also has some of the worst paint quality I've ever seen from the factory. I'm not trying to knock your car, it's just the MS3 is strictly built for speed and budget with nothing fancy.

Driving, well that a no brainer. MS3 is front wheel drive and has torque steer galore. BMW is perfectly balanced, rear wheel drive, much smoother power band too. BMW's shifter is smooth and effortless, whereas the MS3 is VERY loose, sloppy, and easy to mis-shift. BMW handling, road feel, and feedback are what makes the brand so famous and the M235i really shows them off.

If you're worried about space, well the Mazda isn't really that big either. The trunk/hatch is actually smaller than the trunk on the BMW. Fold the seats down in the 2 and you're good to go. Just go buy one, you'll thank me later.

[Tony]

I'm surprised at the civilized reply that you got here. I guess the Mazda Speed 3 isn't a threat to the M235i. The Audi S3? that appears to be a different story. LOL!!!

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Tony

I'm surprised at the civilized reply that you got here. I guess the Mazda Speed 3 isn't a threat to the M235i. The Audi S3? that appears to be different story. LOL!!!

Yea saw your thread got deleted but i guess your approach was different

[Tony]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Yea saw your thread got deleted but i guess your approach was different

Nope. Only thing that was different was the car. This car doesn't have any advantages over the M235i. The Audi S3 does, hence the different replies and anger levels

[jeremicium]

I've driven numerous speed3s. Very fun car and a lot of bang for the buck. I'm a big fan of what Mazda has been doing the last few years. That said, clearly you're going to get a luxury feel in the BMW that you won't get in the Mazda. Not sure how important that is to you. BMW...and the M235i have a pretty good formula for balancing comfort and sportiness. The BMW will be a much more comfortable, yet very fun and sporty daily driver, the Mazda not as much comfort but still a lot of fun.

Performance-wise, you lose a lot with the Mazda being front wheel drive. Rear drive cars just tend to be much more enjoyable to throw around corners.

It's really too bad we didn't get the M135i in the states. There a lot of practicality that you gain with a hot hatch.

Your initial post is pretty dead on as far as the comparison of the two. Not sure what anyone will be able to tell you that you don't already know. With BMW you pay a premium just for it being a BMW. When I was shopping for my 335 it was thousands more than the IS350, and G37. It felt better than either, but for 10k more than the G37 it didn't make a whole let of sense from a cost-benefit perspective. I ended up with the BMW because I wanted a BMW.

If you're looking for a more comfortable ride, yet sporty and fun, plus like the practicality of a hatchback you can't go wrong with a GTI...or better yet a Golf R. Fairly luxurious compared to the Mazda, fun, quick, and just an all around good car. The GTI is not much more expensive than a Speed3, and gets combined MPG in the high 20s. Plus you can tune them for under a grand and they will be as fast/faster than the Speed3.

[timsev]

Originally Posted by Tony

Nope. Only thing that was different was the car. This car doesn't have any advantages over the M235i. The Audi S3 does, hence the different replies and anger levels

Not quite. This thread is asking if the OP should consider upgrading to an M235i and why, on an unbiased level. Your thread was just trying to start a pissing match as to justify your purchase. Of course you're going to ignite strong opinions when you list reasons why you think your car is better than a BMW on a BMW board...

[Tony]

Originally Posted by timsev

Not quite. This thread is asking if the OP should consider upgrading to an M235i and why, on an unbiased level. Your thread was just trying to start a pissing match as to justify your purchase. Of course you're going to ignite strong opinions when you list reasons why you think your car is better than a BMW on a BMW board...

Wow. Talk about some insecure individuals? I put together the pluses and minuses of both vehicles. I guess the mindset here is that the M235i is beyond reproach? Guess you cant compare vehicles without upsetting some immature insecure, individuals. Post something about a BMW on an Audi board and you will not get attacked. Different mindset I guess.

[timsev]

Again man, it's the tone of your messages. I don't have to go over to Audi forums to tell everyone that I bought a BMW. That seems like something one would need to do to justify their purchase. It's okay, we all have to reassure ourselves and our decisions sometimes. Just don't be surprised when people disagree. Online, not many people hold back so you're going to get a lot of heat, which is what happened. For the sake of hijacking this thread, lets stop talking about it and more Mazdaspeak.

[mczoomer]

Thanks all for the civilized comments! :-) Esp. Timsev and Jeremicium, thanks for the detailed comments. I'm not at all offended by the "not in the same ballpark" reaction; though i disagree with some of the comments, the reason I posted this was not to defend my (beloved) MS3, but rather to confirm my impressions of the M235i that could justify an upgrade. I totally get that BMW is delivering on both sportiness & comfort at a superior, albeit costlier, level; I've basically been trying to figure out the specifics. It's been particularly helpful to get comments from people who know the MS3 well and appreciate its strengths and weaknesses.

I think from the comments I have underestimated the space in the M235i, and probably also underestimated the greater smoothness of the ride. One test drive is not enough -- and these cars are in short supply, so it's hard to get another test run. I particularly loved the seats, far more supportive; the lack of lumbar support on the MS3 is a serious problem.

Thanks again!

[mczoomer]

Also, thanks for the pointers to GTI / Golf R. They are on my radar too.

[danimal]

I would just like to throw out there, at least test drive a 228i (Sport Line, M Sport, or Track Pack). If you're looking to keep the price a little closer to the ballpark of an MS3, you may be surprised at the performance of the 2.0-liter turbo. Most test results put it well under 6.0 seconds to 60 (I think C/D even got it under 5 with the 8AT), so it should still be a significant upgrade in performance over your MS3. Plus, it's going to put the power down better than the MS3 (and without the torque steer).

[mczoomer]

Yes, that makes sense, danimal. Thanks for the suggestion.

[brianco1]

I turned it in for a 2010 Mark VI GTI, 6 Speed Manual. Major upgrade, GTI is every bit as fun as the Speed 3, but so much more refined and luxurious. Now I am looking at either the Mark VII GTI with the Performance Pack and DCC, or the Mark VII Golf R, or a 228i Sportline with Track Pack, Lighting, HK, etc. All Manual Transmissions. It's a very tough choice for me, will take any input.

You will love the GTI though. A great cross between the BMW and your Speed 3.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by brianco1

I turned it in for a 2010 Mark VI GTI, 6 Speed Manual. Major upgrade, GTI is every bit as fun as the Speed 3, but so much more refined and luxurious. Now I am looking at either the Mark VII GTI with the Performance Pack and DCC, or the Mark VII Golf R, or a 228i Sportline with Track Pack, Lighting, HK, etc. All Manual Transmissions. It's a very tough choice for me, will take any input.

You will love the GTI though. A great cross between the BMW and your Speed 3.

The Mark VII GTI manual was actually the only car I test drove besides the 228i, but I just didn't like it has much as I thought I would. I guess I've just become spoiled by RWD, but the way the GTI feels under power just didn't impress me, particularly over bumps and crests in the road. The front end felt somewhat nervous and unsettled to me. Another issue was that VW has gone away from the floor-hinged throttle pedal, so it's now virtually impossible to heel-toe (if you're into that sort of thing). Finally, the mid-range power (at least without the performance package) just didn't feel as robust as with the 228i. At freeway speeds, the 228i just seems to pull, even in 6th. Tried as might, I just didn't get the same sensation of power in the GTI. I'd still consider the GTI a hell of a value and an extremely good blend of sportiness and utility, but I found the 228i to be the better driving car with good-enough practicality, and it still fit within my budget. So, it was an easy choice for me.

[mczoomer]

Super useful comments, thanks. Need to look more at all these cars, 228i/GTI/Golf R. I'm guessing the 2 series' longer wheelbase makes for a slightly more stable ride than these VWs?

One thing that appeals to me with the GTI/Golf R is excellent headroom, as I recall. And the better fuel economy (at least GTI vs. M235i) is a factor for me too.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by mczoomer

Also, thanks for the pointers to GTI / Golf R. They are on my radar too.

Love the GTI and also excited about the Golf R. You don't get torque steer on the M235i and the shifter is better on the BMW. I cross shopped the MS3 seriously because I love what Mazda does. They care about club racing and I'm a fan. You will miss the torque steer because while it is a drawback, it makes for exciting launches! : ) The M235i feels heavier and is more mature. It has amazing performance but the rawness of the MS3 makes it exciting. If you love the MS3, you might find the M235i to be a little sedate in contrast. The steering is electric in the BMW and takes some getting used to if you are used to the front wheels talking to you. Especially in the Mazda where the front wheels raise their voice often. My best friend bought the MS3 and I ended up with GTI. I still prefer the GTI but it doesn't have the power. The Golf R seems really exciting at the moment but again, I drove the 2015 GTI and it now has electric steering and has lost some of the luster. The seats in the GTI are the best seats ever in my opinion. I still think you cannot ignore the GTI/Golf R. And they give you temperature gauges too : )

Still the M235i is a better car but it cost the same as two base GTIs... While it is better, I'm not sure it's two times better. I recommend you also check out the 228i with M-Sport. I love the sound of the wastegates going off once warm but it sounds terrible at first. Let us know what you decide!

[mczoomer]

Yeah, Nachob, I really hear you about the fun rawness of the MS3. Such a fun car to drive.

But one can't have it all... that same rawness is what detracts from overall comfort / smoothness, and is what is prompting the thought of upgrading. My biggest gripes with the MS3 are the suspension, the engine sound, and the seats.

"Heavier, more mature" is exactly what I felt about the M235i.

The MS3 has a fair bit of turbo lag, I don't think that's present in the M235i. How about in the 228i/GTI/Golf R?

> Let us know what you decide!

Sure!

[VeryBadman]

I used to consider getting Mazdaspeed 3 but as I get older and get less d'bag (of course, make more money too ), comfort and luxury take more priority so that I have to compromise the performance (or maybe not seeing that I still drive 420hp sedan). While I honestly think the latest generation Mazda 3 build quality is not so bad, BMW is still by far better and stock to stock, M235i still has better performance so aside from practicality of 2 doors coupe v.s 5 doors hatchback which obviously the later is better, M235i is superior in every way. If money is not your concern which doesn't seem to be the case anyway seeing you are thinking about getting M235i, I would say just get yourself one and you will be very happy with it.

Also, I have to admit that Audi S3 is tempting but I don't want to have 2 Audi's in my garage. It's just too boring and I think 2 series is more fun to drive too.

[brianco1]

Originally Posted by danimal

The Mark VII GTI manual was actually the only car I test drove besides the 228i, but I just didn't like it has much as I thought I would. I guess I've just become spoiled by RWD, but the way the GTI feels under power just didn't impress me, particularly over bumps and crests in the road. The front end felt somewhat nervous and unsettled to me. Another issue was that VW has gone away from the floor-hinged throttle pedal, so it's now virtually impossible to heel-toe (if you're into that sort of thing). Finally, the mid-range power (at least without the performance package) just didn't feel as robust as with the 228i. At freeway speeds, the 228i just seems to pull, even in 6th. Tried as might, I just didn't get the same sensation of power in the GTI. I'd still consider the GTI a hell of a value and an extremely good blend of sportiness and utility, but I found the 228i to be the better driving car with good-enough practicality, and it still fit within my budget. So, it was an easy choice for me.

I appreciate your comments, very helpful. I have begun to see the benefits of RWD Cars as well, currently driving a Caddy ATS with a great 50/50 balanced RWD Chassis. This is why the 228i is getting my attention away from my love of the GTI. I certainly don't need the extra traction from a FWD car in So Cal. With your 228i, I am very curious as to your thoughts on the Clutch, Shifter and Engine. I live in SoCal traffic, and one thing I liked about the GTI Manual is that it had a silky smooth clutch and shifter, along with great turbo low-end torque. This meant I did not have to shift it near as often as some other cars, and it was not fatiguing like say a Subaru WRX or BRZ's sporty shifter and stiff clutch. How does the 228i manual compare to the GTI? I also agree with you on the clutch pedal design, I hope to do some heel/toe as well. My last concern has to do with the steering wheel. I love a beefy one, but really prefer a non-MSport because of exterior color choices. Can you comment on the feel of the standard wheel vs. the M one?

I also just noticed the announcement of the Caddy ATS Coupe, with a new Tremec 6 Speed Manual, an intriguing car. Anyone comment on this versus a 228i?

Thanks!

Brian

[Daddycat]

Originally Posted by brianco1

I also just noticed the announcement of the Caddy ATS Coupe, with a new Tremec 6 Speed Manual, an intriguing car. Anyone comment on this versus a 228i?

Yes, I drove an 2.0T ATS Performance Package about a year ago with the intention of buying so I really wanted to love it. Three things stopped me: Too much [uninspiring] engine noise inside the cabin; the distraction and inconsistent response of the touch controls; and that overall it felt one size too big. Bottom line, it was a great car but we didn't "connect".

Was completely surprised by the 2-series when I first saw it 3 months ago. Didn't think of the ATS at the time, but now that you ask: I don't hear the 2.0T inside the car at all, which is good because it doesn't exactly sound like a Ferrari either; iDrive and a simple volume control knob beat a touchscreen any time--my eyes never leave the road; and it feels more responsive due to being some 7" shorter with a 50/50 F-R balance. Handling-wise it even reminds me of some of my past 2-seaters (MR2/NSX). It was love at first drive.

I liked the ATS, just not enough to buy it. I liked the 228i enough to order one right away. It's a true driver's car with exploitable limits, which I had been waiting for someone to build for about the last 10 years.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by brianco1

I appreciate your comments, very helpful. I have begun to see the benefits of RWD Cars as well, currently driving a Caddy ATS with a great 50/50 balanced RWD Chassis. This is why the 228i is getting my attention away from my love of the GTI. I certainly don't need the extra traction from a FWD car in So Cal. With your 228i, I am very curious as to your thoughts on the Clutch, Shifter and Engine. I live in SoCal traffic, and one thing I liked about the GTI Manual is that it had a silky smooth clutch and shifter, along with great turbo low-end torque. This meant I did not have to shift it near as often as some other cars, and it was not fatiguing like say a Subaru WRX or BRZ's sporty shifter and stiff clutch. How does the 228i manual compare to the GTI? I also agree with you on the clutch pedal design, I hope to do some heel/toe as well. My last concern has to do with the steering wheel. I love a beefy one, but really prefer a non-MSport because of exterior color choices. Can you comment on the feel of the standard wheel vs. the M one?

After my first test drive of a 228i manual, I came onto this forum and started a thread complaining about the transmission. You'll probably be amused by the description I used: "It honestly felt more like a VW than a BMW."

Fast forward to just after my second test drive, and my feelings about the transmission changed a lot. I was able to really get into a rhythm with it, and I started to see the silky smoothness of the throws and clutch operation as a pro, not a con.

I've now been driving the car for 11 days, and I can say the transmission is a gem, and one of the best things about the car. I still wouldn't mind just a touch more heft and slightly shorter throws, but that could be easily solved with a short shift kit or a sportier shift knob.

As for driving in traffic, I've encountered the worst possible driving conditions for a manual transmission--stop and go up a hill--once so far. It wasn't fun, but the light clutch and overall light effort of the shifter kept me from getting fatigued. In all other conditions, I find the car remarkably easy to drive smoothly.

As for the engine, I'd say the turbo makes the car extremely flexible. Shifting is a pleasure in this car, but if you're tired or feeling lazy, you really don't have to change gears that often. The 228i does have a bit of turbo lag, but it doesn't last very long, and if you keep it out of Eco Pro, you really shouldn't feel it too much.

When comparing the shifter with the GTI, I stand by my original statement: the two cars have pretty similar shift feel. One very memorable difference was the shift knob, which is dead serious on the Bimmer and a playful, golf-ball-like thing on the GTI. As for the clutch, I seem to recall that the VW had longer clutch travel with a higher engagement point. As I mentioned above, though, my biggest gripe was that I couldn't heel-toe the car at all. For me, that's one of the joys of driving stick. The 228i, on the other hand, seems to be perfectly set up for heel-toeing--I seem to get it right more often than in anything else I've owned.