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      02-07-2017, 03:12 AM   #23
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CPO boat, the car still has low kms, and I'm seeing the same car, w/ the same package for more than what I paid a little over one year ago. I got a great deal, the first guy took the hit hard, though.
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      02-07-2017, 07:42 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hankdoll View Post
SCC, congrats on the new car. It seems since you ordered the car you really won't have any leverage with the dealer on trade in value. He is probably pretty sure you won't walk on the deal after waiting for your exact car. Do you have a plan? (Curious, b/c I'm in the same boat as you )
Thanks! So my plan is get pre-approved financing from my credit union for the full price of the vehicle plus 10% (minus down payment + room for taxes and extended warranty etc whatever) @ 1.99% for 60 months from my credit union. I am going to take my car to CarMax a few days before the 240 arrives and get their baseline number. I am going to check local prices on other 335is' if there are any, print those out and bring them with me.

Before I go, based on web trade in estimates, CarMax and what they are going for locally I will have to come up with the lowest number I am willing to go to and the fair number I want. In TX we only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade and the cost of the car so I will have to take that into account as well. I will probably start off with my fair number +$1000 and see where it goes.

The reason for getting financing approval for full price is in case I decide to take the CarMax option and just take the car without trade which I do not want to do, just keeping that as a remote option.

One thing that may work in my favor is that the car I ordered is pretty much fully loaded. MSRP is $55,080 which would be the high end maybe most won't be interested in. The car is more expensive because it's an x-drive and this is Dallas again maybe most buyers wont be interested. I ordered the white leather which again most probably won't be interested in as I have rarely seen that interior color on M240s or M235s. I think the dealer would be motivated to move that car as it might sit for a while otherwise. I could be totally wrong. If you look at M240i x-drives on Autotrader nationwide there are about 80 of them out there and most are the same ones I have been looking at for the last 2 months. I have not seen one in TX since I started watching in October.

In the end all I want is a fair number on my trade, I'm not trying to rob the bank here. I will definitely report back in the next 3-4 weeks when it's hopefully all over.

I am open to suggestions on my so called strategy if anyone wants to fire away.

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      02-07-2017, 10:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCThree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankdoll View Post
SCC, congrats on the new car. It seems since you ordered the car you really won't have any leverage with the dealer on trade in value. He is probably pretty sure you won't walk on the deal after waiting for your exact car. Do you have a plan? (Curious, b/c I'm in the same boat as you )
Thanks! So my plan is get pre-approved financing from my credit union for the full price of the vehicle plus 10% (minus down payment + room for taxes and extended warranty etc whatever) @ 1.99% for 60 months from my credit union. I am going to take my car to CarMax a few days before the 240 arrives and get their baseline number. I am going to check local prices on other 335is' if there are any, print those out and bring them with me.

Before I go, based on web trade in estimates, CarMax and what they are going for locally I will have to come up with the lowest number I am willing to go to and the fair number I want. In TX we only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade and the cost of the car so I will have to take that into account as well. I will probably start off with my fair number +$1000 and see where it goes.

The reason for getting financing approval for full price is in case I decide to take the CarMax option and just take the car without trade which I do not want to do, just keeping that as a remote option.

One thing that may work in my favor is that the car I ordered is pretty much fully loaded. MSRP is $55,080 which would be the high end maybe most won't be interested in. The car is more expensive because it's an x-drive and this is Dallas again maybe most buyers wont be interested. I ordered the white leather which again most probably won't be interested in as I have rarely seen that interior color on M240s or M235s. I think the dealer would be motivated to move that car as it might sit for a while otherwise. I could be totally wrong. If you look at M240i x-drives on Autotrader nationwide there are about 80 of them out there and most are the same ones I have been looking at for the last 2 months. I have not seen one in TX since I started watching in October.

In the end all I want is a fair number on my trade, I'm not trying to rob the bank here. I will definitely report back in the next 3-4 weeks when it's hopefully all over.

I am open to suggestions on my so called strategy if anyone wants to fire away.

Keep in mind if you go separate transactions vs trade there's a tax impact. Say your new car is $50k and your trade is $20k just to use round numbers. You'd pay tax on $30k. Which is what you're saying. Sell to private party you pay tax on $50k. Carmax I'm not 100% sure you'd have to talk to your dealer to see if they can work with carmax to link the deals, but you may be in the same situation where you have to pay full tax. So if carmax offer is much better than dealer for whatever reason you still may be able to make it work to sell them the car.
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      02-07-2017, 10:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Keep in mind if you go separate transactions vs trade there's a tax impact. Say your new car is $50k and your trade is $20k just to use round numbers. You'd pay tax on $30k. Which is what you're saying. Sell to private party you pay tax on $50k. Carmax I'm not 100% sure you'd have to talk to your dealer to see if they can work with carmax to link the deals, but you may be in the same situation where you have to pay full tax. So if carmax offer is much better than dealer for whatever reason you still may be able to make it work to sell them the car.
Agreed and I am aware of the tax implications. I doubt there could be any kind of linking a sale to CarMax with the dealer to get the tax break. Once I get that CarMax offer I will have to break out a spreadsheet to make sure I know what the best option is. I definitely do not want to deal with the alternatives to not trading in but I am going to try to be prepared for all scenarios. Prepare for the worst hope for the best?
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      02-07-2017, 11:07 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCThree
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Keep in mind if you go separate transactions vs trade there's a tax impact. Say your new car is $50k and your trade is $20k just to use round numbers. You'd pay tax on $30k. Which is what you're saying. Sell to private party you pay tax on $50k. Carmax I'm not 100% sure you'd have to talk to your dealer to see if they can work with carmax to link the deals, but you may be in the same situation where you have to pay full tax. So if carmax offer is much better than dealer for whatever reason you still may be able to make it work to sell them the car.
Agreed and I am aware of the tax implications. I doubt there could be any kind of linking a sale to CarMax with the dealer to get the tax break. Once I get that CarMax offer I will have to break out a spreadsheet to make sure I know what the best option is. I definitely do not want to deal with the alternatives to not trading in but I am going to try to be prepared for all scenarios. Prepare for the worst hope for the best?
I really think there's a way to link it, ask your dealer if that would make the most sense for you. Mine in PA a couple of years ago said they could do it but it didn't make sense for me at the time so never pursued it. Laws vary state to state and change all the time so who knows anymore.
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      02-07-2017, 03:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCThree View Post
Thanks! So my plan is get pre-approved financing from my credit union for the full price of the vehicle plus 10% (minus down payment + room for taxes and extended warranty etc whatever) @ 1.99% for 60 months from my credit union. I am going to take my car to CarMax a few days before the 240 arrives and get their baseline number. I am going to check local prices on other 335is' if there are any, print those out and bring them with me.

Before I go, based on web trade in estimates, CarMax and what they are going for locally I will have to come up with the lowest number I am willing to go to and the fair number I want. In TX we only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade and the cost of the car so I will have to take that into account as well. I will probably start off with my fair number +$1000 and see where it goes.

The reason for getting financing approval for full price is in case I decide to take the CarMax option and just take the car without trade which I do not want to do, just keeping that as a remote option.

One thing that may work in my favor is that the car I ordered is pretty much fully loaded. MSRP is $55,080 which would be the high end maybe most won't be interested in. The car is more expensive because it's an x-drive and this is Dallas again maybe most buyers wont be interested. I ordered the white leather which again most probably won't be interested in as I have rarely seen that interior color on M240s or M235s. I think the dealer would be motivated to move that car as it might sit for a while otherwise. I could be totally wrong. If you look at M240i x-drives on Autotrader nationwide there are about 80 of them out there and most are the same ones I have been looking at for the last 2 months. I have not seen one in TX since I started watching in October.

In the end all I want is a fair number on my trade, I'm not trying to rob the bank here. I will definitely report back in the next 3-4 weeks when it's hopefully all over.

I am open to suggestions on my so called strategy if anyone wants to fire away.

Good plan...I will get a carmax quote as well. Unfortunately (or fortunately in this instance) CA doesn't give tax credit on trades, so I have one less variable and basically makes me a free agent. Your right, a high optioned car may give you a little leverage since dealer may not want it in his inventory. Best of luck!
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      02-07-2017, 05:34 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCThree View Post
Agreed and I am aware of the tax implications. I doubt there could be any kind of linking a sale to CarMax with the dealer to get the tax break. Once I get that CarMax offer I will have to break out a spreadsheet to make sure I know what the best option is. I definitely do not want to deal with the alternatives to not trading in but I am going to try to be prepared for all scenarios. Prepare for the worst hope for the best?
I can verify that such a link is legal in Texas. I was offered just such an offer from CarMax when I was shopping my Lexus to trade for my current 228i. I ended up not doing it, but it is possible.

As for the wild-trade-in-value discussion: I think some of us are not considering all of the factors regarding the OP's car. The two biggest:
- It's an MT. Think about it: 3 percent of new cars sold in the U.S. last year were MTs. Three percent. That makes the potential market very, very small, particularly in New England where the OP lives. Which brings me to my other point:
- Location. The poster who got the $34K offer on his 2015 is in Vista, California. Cars such as the 2 Series sell far better there than in the Northeast.

wjones14 : I'd also say that your car not being an X-Drive is a disadvantage in your neck of the woods. Also, the mods you've done may negatively affect the value in the eyes of some. But those effects are nowhere near as great as the effects of the other two, IMHO.
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      02-10-2017, 10:54 AM   #30
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Still trying to sell my 2015 M235i on Ebay and elsewhere. I bought a "stripper" meaning no sunroof and no options. Thank God I wanted to try the automatic transmission (had never had one before) or I would have zero chance of selling the car. My feeling is that people today don't want sports cars from BMW, they want luxury cars with a sporting heritage. The car only has 4,700 miles and is mint and the best offer I've had is $30,000, which was from CarMax. Reducing the price again today to $35,000 and we'll see if we get any bites.
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      02-10-2017, 11:04 AM   #31
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Thank God I wanted to try the automatic transmission (had never had one before) or I would have zero chance of selling the car.
I don't know about that honestly. For the more enthusiast crowd rowing your own gears in this kind of car seems like a must. The few m2xx I have seen used / CPO with manual transmissions seem to go quickly.
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      02-10-2017, 11:20 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
As for the wild-trade-in-value discussion: I think some of us are not considering all of the factors regarding the OP's car. The two biggest:
- It's an MT. Think about it: 3 percent of new cars sold in the U.S. last year were MTs. Three percent. That makes the potential market very, very small, particularly in New England where the OP lives. Which brings me to my other point:
- Location. The poster who got the $34K offer on his 2015 is in Vista, California. Cars such as the 2 Series sell far better there than in the Northeast.

wjones14 : I'd also say that your car not being an X-Drive is a disadvantage in your neck of the woods. Also, the mods you've done may negatively affect the value in the eyes of some. But those effects are nowhere near as great as the effects of the other two, IMHO.
What mods? I haven't done anything to the car other than the stainless pedal covers. I did get some "port-installed" options: MP Exhaust and rear diffuser; MP black kidney grills; and the MP rocker panel decals. Of those, only the decals would probably be considered as a negative, and if they don't like them, they can pull them off.

I like to think that the MT would be desirable for the right person. It's hard to find one on the lot. My '05 Mustang GT was a manual, and the guy who bought it lives in upstate NY and drove 4 hours for the privilege. Less than 5% of 2005 Mustangs were yellow, and when you narrowed it down to the Premium Package GT plus 5-speed, less than 1% fell into this category. It was a rare find for the guy who bought it, hence his willingness to make the long drive (twice).
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      02-10-2017, 02:45 PM   #33
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I don't know about that honestly. For the more enthusiast crowd rowing your own gears in this kind of car seems like a must. The few m2xx I have seen used / CPO with manual transmissions seem to go quickly.
Yeah, I think if you had a manual it probably would have sold by now. There are tons of autos out there to choose from (most with more options than yours) and very little choice of manual cars.

Do you have it listed anywhere else besides eBay? I haven't seen it on Autotrader and I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't look on eBay for cars.
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      02-11-2017, 09:30 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Say your new car is $50k and your trade is $20k just to use round numbers. You'd pay tax on $30k. Which is what you're saying. Sell to private party you pay tax on $50k.
I have never bought a used car in the US... who pays for the sales tax? Isn't usually the buyer?
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      02-11-2017, 10:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainfall View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Say your new car is $50k and your trade is $20k just to use round numbers. You'd pay tax on $30k. Which is what you're saying. Sell to private party you pay tax on $50k.
I have never bought a used car in the US... who pays for the sales tax? Isn't usually the buyer?
Yes buyer always pays tax (unless weird in some states that I'm not familiar with). Buying a new car though when you trade it reduces the tax on the new car. You're basically getting a credit for the tax you already paid on the car you are trading.
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      02-11-2017, 11:12 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by wjones14 View Post
What mods? I haven't done anything to the car other than the stainless pedal covers. I did get some "port-installed" options: MP Exhaust and rear diffuser; MP black kidney grills; and the MP rocker panel decals. Of those, only the decals would probably be considered as a negative, and if they don't like them, they can pull them off.

I like to think that the MT would be desirable for the right person. It's hard to find one on the lot. My '05 Mustang GT was a manual, and the guy who bought it lives in upstate NY and drove 4 hours for the privilege. Less than 5% of 2005 Mustangs were yellow, and when you narrowed it down to the Premium Package GT plus 5-speed, less than 1% fell into this category. It was a rare find for the guy who bought it, hence his willingness to make the long drive (twice).

It is also winter up there, not sure many people are out shopping for rwd manual cars.
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      02-11-2017, 12:55 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Yes buyer always pays tax (unless weird in some states that I'm not familiar with). Buying a new car though when you trade it reduces the tax on the new car. You're basically getting a credit for the tax you already paid on the car you are trading.
that's helpful, thanks.
In my case I don't see it making a big difference. If I were to trade in my car, I would lose more with the trade in value than the gain of the tax credit.
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      02-11-2017, 03:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainfall View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Yes buyer always pays tax (unless weird in some states that I'm not familiar with). Buying a new car though when you trade it reduces the tax on the new car. You're basically getting a credit for the tax you already paid on the car you are trading.
that's helpful, thanks.
In my case I don't see it making a big difference. If I were to trade in my car, I would lose more with the trade in value than the gain of the tax credit.
Yeah that's the tradeoff. If you sell privately no way to combine, carmax yes.

Said another way say dealer is offering you like $1k less than private party on trade. You actually may be better off doing that if trade is $20k and you avoid $1500 in taxes.
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      02-12-2017, 10:13 AM   #39
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Fellow 2 series I6 lovers - I've test driven 14 performance vehicles recently - and I have fallen in love with the M235/240x.

Unfortunately - as an aspiring used M235x (cash) buyer - I have the opposite problem. The market is very thin. I'm in Boston and there is 1 car within 100 miles and 5 within 500 miles. Prices are all over the map - with sellers often having unrealistic expectations and taking a while to adjust. For e.g. the 2 cars nearest me: the 2016 (5K miles) wants 49K and the 2015 (25K miles) wants 45K. I've seen cars further away sell for much less - so I know those prices aren't right - but how do I convince the seller?

I'm afraid until more cars come in the market and stable prices emerge - this problem is going to stay with us.

Last edited by v4257; 02-12-2017 at 10:26 AM..
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      02-12-2017, 10:21 AM   #40
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as a Porsche dealer, I see BMWs come in on trade all the time. People trying to get out of leases early and think they have equity or it being a straight wash - not realistic.

BMW FS inflates the residual and sub-vents the money factor to create amazing lease prices - a 130k bmw m6 leasing out at 1300 vs. a 911 base that is 100k leasing out for 1200 (where is that 30k difference).

lease BMW. you will always be upside down on BMW unless it is something extremely special (z3m, 1m, etc.). BMW incentivizes leases so people can get into new cars and have "SALES LEADING #s".

regarding your trade, if you use KBB, do not put "good or excellent condition" - fair condition is closest to Galves.

another problem with BMW is that they make too many of these cars. trade in values are dependent on "30 day market supply". This means that there are x amount of cars, and in 30 days, a store could sell 1 daily, and the difference would be surplus. For example, a 240i could have a 30 day market supply of 45 cars. this means that a store could sell one every day for 30 days, and there would be 15 cars left over (surplus). This is inflation. More supply than demand. This equates to lower value, lower margin, and a lower trade in.

As an FYI, I got a 2012 128i CPO. I paid 26k for the car in May of 2015. Today, that car is worth $11-13k. The options or conditions are not important as much as the CarFax, the 30 day supply, and fair market value for the car.
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      02-12-2017, 10:37 AM   #41
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regarding your trade, if you use KBB, do not put "good or excellent condition" - fair condition is closest to Galves.
PKumarM3: would you be kind enough to share the Galves value for 2015 and 2016 M235s? I think that will help everyone on this thread.
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      02-12-2017, 10:53 AM   #42
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It is also winter up there, not sure many people are out shopping for rwd manual cars.
True. I'm looking out the window now and it's snowing again. If I do indeed try to sell mine, it won't be until April when the motorcycles start coming out again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v4257 View Post
Fellow 2 series I6 lovers - I've test driven 14 performance vehicles recently - and I have fallen in love with the M235/240x.

Unfortunately - as an aspiring used M235x (cash) buyer - I have the opposite problem. The market is very thin. I'm in Boston and there is 1 car within 100 miles and 5 within 500 miles. Prices are all over the map - with sellers often having unrealistic expectations and taking a while to adjust. For e.g. the 2 cars nearest me: the 2016 (5K miles) wants 49K and the 2015 (25K miles) wants 45K. I've seen cars further away sell for much less - so I know those prices aren't right - but how do I convince the seller?

I'm afraid until more cars come in the market and stable prices emerge - this problem is going to stay with us.
This is why I think I may not have a lot of trouble selling mine. I would probably be asking $39K, and mine is low miles, pristine condition, and is nicely optioned, IMO. There just aren't that many around. I searched Autotrader for manual 2015 M235i manual transmission nationwide and only 10 came up total. None within 500 miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKumarM3 View Post
As an FYI, I got a 2012 128i CPO. I paid 26k for the car in May of 2015. Today, that car is worth $11-13k. The options or conditions are not important as much as the CarFax, the 30 day supply, and fair market value for the car.
If true, this pretty much sums up the title of this thread. BMW sporty coupes no longer hold their value. I paid $26K for my 2005 Mustang GT, new, and 10 years later sold it for $11K. And here, you have a BMW sporty coupe with higher MSRP, only 5 years old, and it's the same value as my 10 year old Mustang.
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      02-12-2017, 01:21 PM   #43
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This is why I think I may not have a lot of trouble selling mine. I would probably be asking $39K, and mine is low miles, pristine condition, and is nicely optioned, IMO. There just aren't that many around. I searched Autotrader for manual 2015 M235i manual transmission nationwide and only 10 came up total. None within 500 miles.
I hope you get the price you desire!

FWIW: I've seen two 2016 models with 1K/5K miles respectively sell for 38K and 39K recently.
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      02-12-2017, 01:58 PM   #44
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Drives: 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30X
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Columbia, S.C.

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Comparing a 2012 128 with an M235 depreciation is crazy. Buying a 2012 128 that's obsolete, replaced by a 2 series car had a lot to do with the hit in depreciation. No mention of miles put on the car etc so its a strawman conversation. Taking the cheapest low end car and least desirable car BMW made with no supporting facts is kind of meaningless. Why would a "Porsche Dealer" be trolling this thread? 128's are a dime a dozen just like 320's, very few M235's for resale, manuals are extremely hard to find but still if its 2 years old its lost 30% of its value like every other luxury car on the market. People won't buy a 2 year old BMW when they can get the same monthly payment on a 2017 lease. Your usually underwater until 3 years. The difference now is people are doing 6-7 year purchases when it used to be 4-5 years. I've owned 16 BMW's through leases and purchases, trade ins etc and the "Porsche Dealer" can say what he wants but I have 22 years buying, leasing and trading BMW's (my own) and he is leaving out some pretty important facts.
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1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8, 2000 528i, 2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0, 2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive, 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30i Xdrive
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