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      11-03-2014, 01:24 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
I read somewhere that M2 will only come with 6MT, no DCT. Is it true?
No it will be available with both.
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      11-03-2014, 02:16 PM   #90
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Great. Looks like i am going to replace my 135i with M2 in 2016
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      11-03-2014, 04:52 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy View Post
The M235i is the first M Performance line vehicle introduced to North America. I think it's unlikely that BMW will abandon the line, and so I think it is unlikely that the M235i will be dropped. This is especially true, as Scott26 says, in jurisdictions with high taxes on "performance cars" with lower fuel economy/higher emissions. The M2 can be sufficiently differentiated from the M235i by options, performance and price, so that there is no need to drop the model.

Despite all that, I would love to be wrong and the M235i to be discontinued. I then own a limited edition!
Agreed, I think there's a market for both models, similar to Audi's S and RS lines.
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      11-03-2014, 07:11 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
I read somewhere that M2 will only come with 6MT, no DCT. Is it true?
Free translation from a recent interview with BMW M boss Nitschke:

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1049659
"Q: You have stated that dual-clutch transmission are set because of the high-speed concept. What about the manual transmission?
Nitschke: In Europe, the taking order for the manual transmission decreased significantly. Here we are, for example, in M3/M4 in the range of 20 percent. Today the DCT and automatic gives better performance figures than the manual transmission, which for us in certain way is a small dilemma. But there is of course a hardcore community, for which the manual transmission is mandatory. What I can promise is that the combination of six-cylinder and manual transmission is maintained as a long-term option, which also makes sense from weight reasons because the manual transmission is about 30 kg lighter. In addition, we believe that the manual gearbox perhaps even again could become a unique selling point - based on the competition. In the V8 this is currently still a moving target, since particularly the American market the demands a manual transmission. But it is also clear that this solution represents a second build line, and a second transmission supplier, and a separate setup, which also is cost relevant."
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      11-03-2014, 08:17 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Free translation from a recent interview with BMW M boss Nitschke:

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1049659
"Q: You have stated that dual-clutch transmission are set because of the high-speed concept. What about the manual transmission?
Nitschke: In Europe, the taking order for the manual transmission decreased significantly. Here we are, for example, in M3/M4 in the range of 20 percent. Today the DCT and automatic gives better performance figures than the manual transmission, which for us in certain way is a small dilemma. But there is of course a hardcore community, for which the manual transmission is mandatory. What I can promise is that the combination of six-cylinder and manual transmission is maintained as a long-term option, which also makes sense from weight reasons because the manual transmission is about 30 kg lighter. In addition, we believe that the manual gearbox perhaps even again could become a unique selling point - based on the competition. In the V8 this is currently still a moving target, since particularly the American market the demands a manual transmission. But it is also clear that this solution represents a second build line, and a second transmission supplier, and a separate setup, which also is cost relevant."
This doesn't mean there won't be a DCT though. You have to take this in context. Nitschke was asked specifically about manual transmissions, and his answer makes it clear that they see maintaining a 6MT option as "unique selling point", which is BMW's language for a product differentiator.
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      11-04-2014, 07:47 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
This doesn't mean there won't be a DCT though. You have to take this in context. Nitschke was asked specifically about manual transmissions, and his answer makes it clear that they see maintaining a 6MT option as "unique selling point", which is BMW's language for a product differentiator.
I agree and meant it that way. I would be surprised if BMW would offer the M2 in MT only or in DCT only. Normally both should be made available. As the BMW M boss pointed out, offering it as MT too would provide BMW an advantage over competitors offering automatic only of cars competing in the same market segment.
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      11-04-2014, 01:26 PM   #95
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If they are to release an M2 convertible they would have to offer DCT.

%age of convertibles that are now auto would be 90% or above I would expect.
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      11-15-2014, 05:20 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakdown61 View Post
That would put the starting price of the US M2 right at 50k.

I wonder if they would drop the M235 to the 235i by putting the 300hp N55 and taking all the M Perf. parts off as standard. Start it under $40k.
Sounds about right. Is there really room for two "sporty" 2-Series models? Do 2-Series sales justify both an "M Performance" M235i (or M240i or whatever) and a "real M" M2? I'm not sure that makes sense, considering that the 3/4-Series line is vastly more popular even without M335i / M435i models. At least not here in the US.

BMW's other series avoid confusion by having a base big-engine model and a high-performance M variant (e.g. 435i and M4.) That gives customers a clear distinction between the M variant and the rest of the models in the series. Not sure there's a big enough niche between the (theoretical) '17 M240i and (near-certain) '17 M2.

To make that M-Performance-to-Real-M niche even smaller, the M2 can't be as fast as the M3/M4. BMW probably won't want M2 sales to cannibalize sales of their more expensive and presumably higher-margin M3/M4 sales. Sporty drivers who want more speed will need to go higher up in the M pecking order.

Also, the M2 will need to be much less expensive than the M3/M4. Slower + smaller = cheaper in consumers' eyes. And that means even less room for an intermediate M240i. Maybe, if BMW were to remove a few go-fast bits from the '17 M240i and call it a 240i and lower the price a few grand, they might boost 2-Series sales overall. The M2 would fill the gap between the non-M-Performance 240i and the M3/M4.
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Last edited by Bosozoku; 11-16-2014 at 12:56 AM..
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      11-15-2014, 05:25 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I agree and meant it that way. I would be surprised if BMW would offer the M2 in MT only or in DCT only. Normally both should be made available. As the BMW M boss pointed out, offering it as MT too would provide BMW an advantage over competitors offering automatic only of cars competing in the same market segment.
I wonder what the M car 6MT/DCT split is in the US vs rest-of-world.
There's apparently quite a large die-hard manual box market here.
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      11-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosozoku View Post
I wonder what the M car 6MT/DCT split is in the US vs rest-of-world.
There's apparently quite a large die-hard manual box market here.
Around 44% according to this Road & Track article:

"...the take rate for M3 manuals was a staggering 44 percent over the life of the E90-series cars."

Keep in mind that when they say E90-series cars, they mean the E90, E92, and E93. One would assume that the sedan and 'vert buyer would skew the numbers toward the DCT a bit, considering the different intentions of those cars.
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      11-16-2014, 10:41 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
People I have talked to reckon Autobild are somewhat a little opportunistic.
A derivative of the Bild so yes indeed it is. Trust auto-motor-und sport much more!
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      11-18-2014, 03:35 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosozoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I agree and meant it that way. I would be surprised if BMW would offer the M2 in MT only or in DCT only. Normally both should be made available. As the BMW M boss pointed out, offering it as MT too would provide BMW an advantage over competitors offering automatic only of cars competing in the same market segment.
I wonder what the M car 6MT/DCT split is in the US vs rest-of-world.
There's apparently quite a large die-hard manual box market here.
"As fast" is really missing the point. I don't care if the M2 isn't any faster than an M235i in a straight line- I want a 2-er with M reflexes (LSD, properly sorted suspension, better cooling, etc.). M235i is a great DD, but I want an M2 for HPDE.
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